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Antiochian Text

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  • T. M. Law
    NFM and his team have published the indices for the Historical Books, since the Sam-Kings-Chron editions were all completed in 1989 (Sam), 1992 (Kings), and
    Message 1 of 7 , May 23, 2007
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      NFM and his team have published the indices for the Historical Books, since the Sam-Kings-Chron editions were all completed in 1989 (Sam), 1992 (Kings), and 1996 (Chron):

       

      Natalio Fernández Marcos, M.ª Victoria Spottorno Díaz-Caro y José Manuel Cañas Reillo

      Índice griego-hebreo del Texto Antioqueno en los libros históricos. Vol I: Índice General. Vol. II: Índice de nombres propios

      CSIC, Instituto de Filología. Serie: Textos y estudios Cardenal Cisneros, nº 75. Madrid , 2005 

       

      If you are interested in all of the complexities of the textual tradition in Sam-Kings (the "quagmire", as Prof Kraft rightly described it), these two volumes should also be on your shelf:

       

      Morano Rodríguez, Ciriaca: Glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las Biblias vulgatas españolas: 1-2 Samuel. Madrid 1989, LXXXIV + 62 págs.

      Moreno Hernández, Antonio: Las glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las Biblias vulgatas españolas: 1-2 Reyes. Madrid 1992, 464 págs.

       

       

      Further, the Hexaplaric materials are now being edited for Sam-Kings (for the Hexapla Project), and a textual commentary (for 3-4 Kgdms) is in preparation showing the influence of the Hexaplaric versions on later textual history. Among other very important things, this will establish more clearly the impact the Hexapla had on the Antiochian text.

       

      On 23 May 2007, at 01:27, andrew fincke wrote:



      Yeh, I'm trying to get them (Rick Gross at BW) to put the Lucianic text of 

      Samuel-Kings-Chronicles that Taylor then and Fernandez Marcos now are 

      hashing out, into the program.  I think the latter almost has a concordance 

      done.  But you're better informed than I.  I suggested it in a BibleWorks 

      forum but didn't get any bites.  First things first, and for us that means 

      the Peshitta OT, whose timing is in the hands of Leiden .  Can the Fernandez 

      Marcos-Busto Saiz editions of Antiochan Kings, Chronicles, Samuel be scanned 

      in to a database?  Of course then you'd have to morph them.

      Andrew Fincke

       

       

      T. M. Law

      Wolfson College

      Oxford

      OX2 6UD

      United Kingdom

       

      +44 (0)1865 284 397

      timothy.law@...

      timothy.law@...

      www.hexapla.org

       

       

    • andrew fincke
      Dear T.M., Quagmire ? Reminds me of Frank Cross, dabbing castor oil on a caked up ball of leather coated with goat urine for three weeks to win from it 23
      Message 2 of 7 , May 23, 2007
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        Dear T.M.,
        "Quagmire"? Reminds me of Frank Cross, dabbing castor oil on a caked up
        ball of leather coated with goat urine for three weeks to win from it 23
        fragments containing the Septuagint of 1 Samuel 2-3 in Hebrew. 1953 -
        4QSam-a. And what about the big fragment of 4QSam-b that was finally
        published in 1997 (and again in DJD 17 in 2005) that is mostly innovations
        and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David's nocturnal emission
        and escape to Nov. I admit, some of the Bible is very explicit - John 3:16
        e.g. - but the rest is problematic. I have the Glosas marginales for 1-2
        Samuel in zerox, as also Vercellone, Variae lectiones, which has the same
        material. Thanks for the tip about the index. Now if somebody can tell me
        how to get hold of it! Will it be on sale at the IOSOT in Ljubljana?
        Andrew Fincke


        >From: "T. M. Law" <timothy.law@...>
        >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <lxx@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: [lxx] Antiochian Text
        >Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:19:15 +0100
        >
        >NFM and his team have published the indices for the Historical Books, since
        >the Sam-Kings-Chron editions were all completed in 1989 (Sam), 1992
        >(Kings),
        >and 1996 (Chron):
        >
        >
        >
        >Natalio Fern���ndez Marcos, M.��� Victoria Spottorno D���az-Caro y Jos���
        >Manuel
        >Ca���as Reillo
        >
        >���ndice griego-hebreo del Texto Antioqueno en los libros hist���ricos. Vol
        >I:
        >���ndice General. Vol. II: ���ndice de nombres propios
        >
        >CSIC, Instituto de Filolog���a. Serie: Textos y estudios Cardenal Cisneros,
        >n���
        >75. Madrid, 2005
        >
        >
        >
        >If you are interested in all of the complexities of the textual tradition
        >in
        >Sam-Kings (the "quagmire", as Prof Kraft rightly described it), these two
        >volumes should also be on your shelf:
        >
        >
        >
        >Morano Rodr���guez, Ciriaca: Glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las
        >Biblias
        >vulgatas espa���olas: 1-2 Samuel. Madrid 1989, LXXXIV + 62 p���gs.
        >
        >Moreno Hern���ndez, Antonio: Las glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las
        >Biblias vulgatas espa���olas: 1-2 Reyes. Madrid 1992, 464 p���gs.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Further, the Hexaplaric materials are now being edited for Sam-Kings (for
        >the Hexapla Project), and a textual commentary (for 3-4 Kgdms) is in
        >preparation showing the influence of the Hexaplaric versions on later
        >textual history. Among other very important things, this will establish
        >more
        >clearly the impact the Hexapla had on the Antiochian text.
        >
        >
        >
        >On 23 May 2007, at 01:27, andrew fincke wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yeh, I'm trying to get them (Rick Gross at BW) to put the Lucianic text of
        >
        >Samuel-Kings-Chronicles that Taylor then and Fernandez Marcos now are
        >
        >hashing out, into the program. I think the latter almost has a concordance
        >
        >done. But you're better informed than I. I suggested it in a BibleWorks
        >
        >forum but didn't get any bites. First things first, and for us that means
        >
        >the Peshitta OT, whose timing is in the hands of Leiden. Can the Fernandez
        >
        >Marcos-Busto Saiz editions of Antiochan Kings, Chronicles, Samuel be
        >scanned
        >
        >
        >in to a database? Of course then you'd have to morph them.
        >
        >Andrew Fincke
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >T. M. Law
        >
        >Wolfson College
        >
        >Oxford
        >
        >OX2 6UD
        >
        >United Kingdom
        >
        >
        >
        >+44 (0)1865 284 397
        >
        >timothy.law@...
        >
        >timothy.law@...
        >
        >www.hexapla.org
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        _________________________________________________________________
        Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i�m Initiative now.
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      • Timothy Law
        You can see the whole list of CSIC monographs here: http://www.filol.csic.es/monografias.html Also, see http://www.filol.csic.es/dge/index.htm for information
        Message 3 of 7 , May 23, 2007
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          You can see the whole list of CSIC monographs here: http://www.filol.csic.es/monografias.html

          Also, see http://www.filol.csic.es/dge/index.htm for information and samples from the ongoing work
          of the Diccionario Griego-Espa�ol, which is very valuable for LXX and Hexaplaric lexicography.

          TML

          In message <BAY110-F252773AC4326B9CAD0F72EA2350@...> lxx@yahoogroups.com writes:
          > Dear T.M.,
          > "Quagmire"? Reminds me of Frank Cross, dabbing castor oil on a caked up
          > ball of leather coated with goat urine for three weeks to win from it 23
          > fragments containing the Septuagint of 1 Samuel 2-3 in Hebrew. 1953 -
          > 4QSam-a. And what about the big fragment of 4QSam-b that was finally
          > published in 1997 (and again in DJD 17 in 2005) that is mostly innovations
          > and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David's nocturnal emission
          > and escape to Nov. I admit, some of the Bible is very explicit - John 3:16
          > e.g. - but the rest is problematic. I have the Glosas marginales for 1-2
          > Samuel in zerox, as also Vercellone, Variae lectiones, which has the same
          > material. Thanks for the tip about the index. Now if somebody can tell me
          > how to get hold of it! Will it be on sale at the IOSOT in Ljubljana?
          > Andrew Fincke
          >
          >
          > >From: "T. M. Law" <timothy.law@...>
          > >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: <lxx@yahoogroups.com>
          > >Subject: [lxx] Antiochian Text
          > >Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:19:15 +0100
          > >
          > >NFM and his team have published the indices for the Historical Books, since
          > >the Sam-Kings-Chron editions were all completed in 1989 (Sam), 1992
          > >(Kings),
          > >and 1996 (Chron):
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Natalio Fern���ndez Marcos, M.��� Victoria Spottorno D���az-Caro y Jos���
          > >Manuel
          > >Ca���as Reillo
          > >
          > >���ndice griego-hebreo del Texto Antioqueno en los libros hist���ricos. Vol
          > >I:
          > >���ndice General. Vol. II: ���ndice de nombres propios
          > >
          > >CSIC, Instituto de Filolog���a. Serie: Textos y estudios Cardenal Cisneros,
          > >n���
          > >75. Madrid, 2005
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >If you are interested in all of the complexities of the textual tradition
          > >in
          > >Sam-Kings (the "quagmire", as Prof Kraft rightly described it), these two
          > >volumes should also be on your shelf:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Morano Rodr���guez, Ciriaca: Glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las
          > >Biblias
          > >vulgatas espa���olas: 1-2 Samuel. Madrid 1989, LXXXIV + 62 p���gs.
          > >
          > >Moreno Hern���ndez, Antonio: Las glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las
          > >Biblias vulgatas espa���olas: 1-2 Reyes. Madrid 1992, 464 p���gs.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Further, the Hexaplaric materials are now being edited for Sam-Kings (for
          > >the Hexapla Project), and a textual commentary (for 3-4 Kgdms) is in
          > >preparation showing the influence of the Hexaplaric versions on later
          > >textual history. Among other very important things, this will establish
          > >more
          > >clearly the impact the Hexapla had on the Antiochian text.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >On 23 May 2007, at 01:27, andrew fincke wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yeh, I'm trying to get them (Rick Gross at BW) to put the Lucianic text of
          > >
          > >Samuel-Kings-Chronicles that Taylor then and Fernandez Marcos now are
          > >
          > >hashing out, into the program. I think the latter almost has a concordance
          > >
          > >done. But you're better informed than I. I suggested it in a BibleWorks
          > >
          > >forum but didn't get any bites. First things first, and for us that means
          > >
          > >the Peshitta OT, whose timing is in the hands of Leiden. Can the Fernandez
          > >
          > >Marcos-Busto Saiz editions of Antiochan Kings, Chronicles, Samuel be
          > >scanned
          > >
          > >
          > >in to a database? Of course then you'd have to morph them.
          > >
          > >Andrew Fincke
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >T. M. Law
          > >
          > >Wolfson College
          > >
          > >Oxford
          > >
          > >OX2 6UD
          > >
          > >United Kingdom
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >+44 (0)1865 284 397
          > >
          > >timothy.law@...
          > >
          > >timothy.law@...
          > >
          > >www.hexapla.org
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i�m Initiative now.
          > It�s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          T. M. Law
          Wolfson College
          Oxford
          OX2 6UD
        • Pat and Jim Ellis
          andrew fincke wrote:...that is mostly innovations and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David s nocturnal emission and escape
          Message 4 of 7 , May 23, 2007
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            andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:
            ...that is mostly innovations
            and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David's nocturnal emission
            and escape to Nov. I admit, some of the Bible is very explicit...

            Well, I don't ever remember hearing or reading about that event.



          • andrew fincke
            Thanks very much, Timothy. Maybe Natalio will send a sample copy. Otherewise it s impossible to get Spanish books in America. Andrew Fincke PS And I m not
            Message 5 of 7 , May 23, 2007
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              Thanks very much, Timothy. Maybe Natalio will send a sample copy.
              Otherewise it's impossible to get Spanish books in America.
              Andrew Fincke
              PS And I'm not talking about the Greek-Spanish dictionary. Then we are
              getting into "quagmire".


              >From: Timothy Law <timothy.law@...>
              >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              >To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: RE: [lxx] Antiochian Text
              >Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:39:52 +0100
              >
              >You can see the whole list of CSIC monographs here:
              >http://www.filol.csic.es/monografias.html
              >
              >Also, see http://www.filol.csic.es/dge/index.htm for information and
              >samples from the ongoing work
              >of the Diccionario Griego-Espa�ol, which is very valuable for LXX and
              >Hexaplaric lexicography.
              >
              >TML
              >
              >In message <BAY110-F252773AC4326B9CAD0F72EA2350@...>
              >lxx@yahoogroups.com writes:
              > > Dear T.M.,
              > > "Quagmire"? Reminds me of Frank Cross, dabbing castor oil on a caked up
              > > ball of leather coated with goat urine for three weeks to win from it 23
              > > fragments containing the Septuagint of 1 Samuel 2-3 in Hebrew. 1953 -
              > > 4QSam-a. And what about the big fragment of 4QSam-b that was finally
              > > published in 1997 (and again in DJD 17 in 2005) that is mostly
              >innovations
              > > and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David's nocturnal
              >emission
              > > and escape to Nov. I admit, some of the Bible is very explicit - John
              >3:16
              > > e.g. - but the rest is problematic. I have the Glosas marginales for
              >1-2
              > > Samuel in zerox, as also Vercellone, Variae lectiones, which has the
              >same
              > > material. Thanks for the tip about the index. Now if somebody can tell
              >me
              > > how to get hold of it! Will it be on sale at the IOSOT in Ljubljana?
              > > Andrew Fincke
              > >
              > >
              > > >From: "T. M. Law" <timothy.law@...>
              > > >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              > > >To: <lxx@yahoogroups.com>
              > > >Subject: [lxx] Antiochian Text
              > > >Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:19:15 +0100
              > > >
              > > >NFM and his team have published the indices for the Historical Books,
              >since
              > > >the Sam-Kings-Chron editions were all completed in 1989 (Sam), 1992
              > > >(Kings),
              > > >and 1996 (Chron):
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Natalio Fern���ndez Marcos, M.��� Victoria Spottorno D���az-Caro y
              >Jos���
              > > >Manuel
              > > >Ca���as Reillo
              > > >
              > > >���ndice griego-hebreo del Texto Antioqueno en los libros hist���ricos.
              >Vol
              > > >I:
              > > >���ndice General. Vol. II: ���ndice de nombres propios
              > > >
              > > >CSIC, Instituto de Filolog���a. Serie: Textos y estudios Cardenal
              >Cisneros,
              > > >n���
              > > >75. Madrid, 2005
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >If you are interested in all of the complexities of the textual
              >tradition
              > > >in
              > > >Sam-Kings (the "quagmire", as Prof Kraft rightly described it), these
              >two
              > > >volumes should also be on your shelf:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Morano Rodr���guez, Ciriaca: Glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en las
              > > >Biblias
              > > >vulgatas espa���olas: 1-2 Samuel. Madrid 1989, LXXXIV + 62 p���gs.
              > > >
              > > >Moreno Hern���ndez, Antonio: Las glosas marginales de Vetus Latina en
              >las
              > > >Biblias vulgatas espa���olas: 1-2 Reyes. Madrid 1992, 464 p���gs.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Further, the Hexaplaric materials are now being edited for Sam-Kings
              >(for
              > > >the Hexapla Project), and a textual commentary (for 3-4 Kgdms) is in
              > > >preparation showing the influence of the Hexaplaric versions on later
              > > >textual history. Among other very important things, this will establish
              > > >more
              > > >clearly the impact the Hexapla had on the Antiochian text.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >On 23 May 2007, at 01:27, andrew fincke wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Yeh, I'm trying to get them (Rick Gross at BW) to put the Lucianic text
              >of
              > > >
              > > >Samuel-Kings-Chronicles that Taylor then and Fernandez Marcos now are
              > > >
              > > >hashing out, into the program. I think the latter almost has a
              >concordance
              > > >
              > > >done. But you're better informed than I. I suggested it in a
              >BibleWorks
              > > >
              > > >forum but didn't get any bites. First things first, and for us that
              >means
              > > >
              > > >the Peshitta OT, whose timing is in the hands of Leiden. Can the
              >Fernandez
              > > >
              > > >Marcos-Busto Saiz editions of Antiochan Kings, Chronicles, Samuel be
              > > >scanned
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >in to a database? Of course then you'd have to morph them.
              > > >
              > > >Andrew Fincke
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >T. M. Law
              > > >
              > > >Wolfson College
              > > >
              > > >Oxford
              > > >
              > > >OX2 6UD
              > > >
              > > >United Kingdom
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >+44 (0)1865 284 397
              > > >
              > > >timothy.law@...
              > > >
              > > >timothy.law@...
              > > >
              > > >www.hexapla.org
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > _________________________________________________________________
              > > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i�m Initiative now.
              > > It�s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >--
              >T. M. Law
              >Wolfson College
              >Oxford
              >OX2 6UD
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
              PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows
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            • andrew fincke
              Dear Pat and Jim, The big fragment from 4QSam-b, that someone stole from the museum and is missing, is viewable at DJD 17, Plate XXIV and in transcription at
              Message 6 of 7 , May 23, 2007
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                Dear Pat and Jim,
                The big fragment from 4QSam-b, that someone stole from the museum and is
                missing, is viewable at DJD 17, Plate XXIV and in transcription at ibid.,
                230ff. It is called "frgs. 6-7" there since the passage is covered by two
                fragments, the smaller of which doesn't join the big fragment, 6. Fragment
                6 begins (line one first three words = the last three words of 1 Samuel
                20:26) "Because he wasn't clean", which was Saul's explanation to himself
                for why David didn't show up for dinner. He - so Saul - had not yet
                returned from his day-long ablution to atone for a sexual mishap that
                involved noone but himself. See Deut 23:10-14. Frgs. 6-7 breaks off at 1
                Samuel 21:7" "And the priest gave him holy (bread), because there wasn't any
                bread there except for the shewbread".
                Andrew Fincke

                - which actually consisted of sitting in the desert (Deut 23:10-14) -
                >From: Pat and Jim Ellis <jim@...>
                >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                >To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: RE: [lxx] Antiochian Text
                >Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:59:43 -0700 (PDT)
                >
                >
                >
                >andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:...that is mostly innovations
                >and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David's nocturnal
                >emission
                >and escape to Nov. I admit, some of the Bible is very explicit...
                >
                >Well, I don't ever remember hearing or reading about that event.
                >
                >
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
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              • andrew fincke
                Dear Pat and Jim, You may have a point. Saul maligned David, maybe he sought an excuse to divorce him from his daughter. But look at it from David s
                Message 7 of 7 , May 29, 2007
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                  Dear Pat and Jim,
                  You may have a point. Saul maligned David, maybe he sought an excuse to
                  divorce him from his daughter. But look at it from David's perspective.
                  1) Saul demanded 100 dead Philistines as dowry for Mikal' hand. David
                  killed 200. (1 Samuel 18:25-27)
                  2) Saul gave him Mikal anyway (v. 27 end). Saul was a decent guy, kept his
                  word.
                  3) "Mikal loved David" (v. 28) - And that after they were married!?
                  4) Saul hated David (v. 29) - his son-in-law!? Why?
                  5) Saul planned to kill him (19:1). Family quarrel.
                  6) David broke off his honeymoon to hide in the field (v. 2-3). We can do
                  it later.
                  7) David left the field and killed Philistines (v. 8). 200 weren't enough!?
                  The story begins to sound like Jacob and Laban - the seven years then more
                  seven years.
                  8) Finally, David in bed with his bride (v. 11)
                  9) She kicked him out (v. 12)
                  10) David again in the field (20:5, 11, 25)
                  11) the alleged nocturnal emission (v. 26). The wedding is beginning to
                  sound like a nightmare!
                  Andrew Fincke

                  >From: Pat and Jim Ellis <jim@...>
                  >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [lxx] Antiochian Text
                  >Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:59:43 -0700 (PDT)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:...that is mostly innovations
                  >and Lucianic readings at 1 Samuel 20-21, relating David's nocturnal
                  >emission
                  >and escape to Nov. I admit, some of the Bible is very explicit...
                  >
                  >Well, I don't ever remember hearing or reading about that event.
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  PC Magazine�s 2007 editors� choice for best Web mail�award-winning Windows
                  Live Hotmail.
                  http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
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