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Re: [lxx] another question

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  • Bart (comcast)
    Hello Fr. John, I think your daughter might prove the point that the terms open and close could well be of ancient usage and would refer to a scroll as
    Message 1 of 45 , Feb 14, 2007
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      Hello Fr. John,
       
      I think your daughter might prove the point that the terms "open" and "close" could well be of ancient usage and would refer to a scroll as much as a codex.
       
      Bart  
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [lxx] another question

      Bart wrote:
       
      "I would not be surprised if the terms "open" and "closed" were carry overs from the scroll days.  I am perplexed as to how these terms really apply to a codex.  What does "opening a book" really convey.  Seems an odd, inappropriate term in and of itself."
       
      My kids speak both Chinese and English... and my oldest daughter spoke Chinese before she learned English, and so when she was little her English was often phrased in Chinese idioms, and so she would say things like:
       
      "Open the lights" rather than "Turn on the lights".
       
      and
       
      "Close the water" rather than "turn off the water"
       


      Fr. John Whiteford
      St. Jonah Orthodox Church
      Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjon ah.org/
      ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/orthodox- rocor/
      Parish News: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/saintjonah /
      Blog: http://fatherjohn. blogspot. com/

    • Robert Kraft
      Interesting. I received this message, but not the earlier two. Wonder why? In any event, the last part of Andrew s quote from Philo should read the word
      Message 45 of 45 , May 4, 2007
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        Interesting. I received this message, but not the earlier two. Wonder why?

        In any event, the last part of Andrew's quote from Philo should read "the word 'Hebrew' is
        translated [or means, in Greek] 'one who passes by' (peraths)." This is but one of scores of
        passages in which Philo translates Hebrew terms for his readers. For more, see L. Grabbe,
        Etymology in Early Jewish Interpretation: the Hebrew Names in Philo, Brown Judaic Series 115
        (Atlanta: Scholars Press 1988).

        Bob Kraft, UPenn

        > Dear Dmitri,
        > Liddell-Scott, 1365 bottom is unambiguous as to peraths. It's a wanderer
        > that Philo explains as Ebraios. Here's the place from Philo, De migratione
        > Abrahami, cited from BibleWorks 7:
        > to. auvcei/n evpi. tw/| ge,noj ei=nai ~Ebrai,wn( oi-j e;qoj avpo. tw/n
        > aivsqhtw/n evpi. ta. nohta. metani,stasqai pera,thj ga.r o` ~Ebrai/oj
        > e`rmhneu,etai(
        > It basically says:
        > "To boast to be of the race of the Hebrews, whose natural instinct was to
        > move around, since peraths means Ebraios (Hebrew)".
        > Andrew Fincke
        >
        >
        > >From: "Tony Costa" <tmcos@rogers. com>
        > >Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
        > >To: <lxx@yahoogroups. com>
        > >Subject: RE: [lxx] question
        > >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:48:28 -0400
        > >
        > >The Greek word PERATH (from PERATHS) carries the meaning of "migrant" and
        > >"wanderer" which is what Brenton's footnote is alluding to. This may
        > >correspond to the possible meaning of the word "Hebrew" in the MT. Abram
        > >(later Abraham) was told to leave Ur of the Chaldees (Mesopotamia) and he
        > >moved westward towards Canaan (Gen. 12:1ff). Thus the emphasis on the west
        > >side of the east (Mesopotamia) . Some see this term as having reference to
        > >Abraham's forefather Eber (Gen. 10:21). Best wishes,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Tony Costa, PhD (cand)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
        > >From: lxx@yahoogroups. com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dmitri
        > >zagvazdin
        > >Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:11 PM
        > >To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
        > >Subject: [lxx] question
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Brenton translates GENESIS 14:13 as "And one of them that had been rescued
        > >came and told Abram the Hebrew..." And yet the Greek word he is translating
        > >as "Hebrew" is peratn (my transliteration without a Greek font). What does
        > >this word mean? Surely not "Hebrew." The closest I could find in a Greek
        > >dictionary was "on the opposite side, of the west as opposed to the east."
        > >Brenton's footnote says "Greek: passer." What is he saying?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
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        --
        Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania
        227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827
        kraft@.... upenn.edu
        http://ccat. sas.upenn. edu/rs/rak/ kraft.html

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