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Re: [lxx] mysterion:sacramentum

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  • St. Tikhon's Sem Libr
    It s good to use mysteries since that s a very meaningful word and it s the direct translation of the traditional Orthodox word. On the other hand, it s also
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 16, 2000
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      It's good to use "mysteries" since that's a very meaningful word and it's the direct translation of the
      traditional Orthodox word. On the other hand, it's also good to use "sacraments" since that's the
      standard English word and it's not wrong or misleading (it means, essentially, "holy things"). The
      standard English word should not be banned from Orthodox usage unless it is theologically wrong.
      Thus, we speak of healing "unction" or "anointing," but we should not say "last rites" as this term is
      misleading.
      It is necessary to "incarnate" the faith into the language in which we are preaching that faith. That
      means accepting standard English terms where no harm results. This also has the advantage that
      it affords us an opportunity to explain to the listeners the nuances in meaning, and why the
      favored Orthodox word is often more meaningful: to explain, for instance, the difference between
      "Pascha" and "Easter," between "passion" and "vice," etc.
      Juvenaly
      St Tikhon's Monastery/Seminary

      On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:50:33 -0400, Rachel Peters wrote:

      >"Mysteries" should be the translation. There is no reason not to call
      >it by its proper translation, especially since English speaking Orthodox
      >Christians speak of Mysteries and not Sacraments. Also the number of
      >Mysteries is not strictly seven as in the Roman church. A Mystery is
      >anything that coveys the Grace of God - which of course includes
      >Baptism, Eucharist, Penance, etc..
      >
      >If necessary, you should footnote the word. People should become
      >accustomed to Orthodox Terminology.
      >
      >
      >In Christ,
      >Katina
    • Rachel Peters
      Mysteries should be the translation. There is no reason not to call it by its proper translation, especially since English speaking Orthodox Christians
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 17, 2000
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        "Mysteries" should be the translation. There is no reason not to call
        it by its proper translation, especially since English speaking Orthodox
        Christians speak of Mysteries and not Sacraments. Also the number of
        Mysteries is not strictly seven as in the Roman church. A Mystery is
        anything that coveys the Grace of God - which of course includes
        Baptism, Eucharist, Penance, etc..

        If necessary, you should footnote the word. People should become
        accustomed to Orthodox Terminology.


        In Christ,
        Katina


        Branka Nikolic wrote:

        > Dear List members, I am working on a translation of an article from
        > Serbian into English dealing with (among other things) the seven
        > sacraments. The word for "sacrament" here is "tajna" and corresponds
        > to the Greek "mysterion". The problem is that in most contexts I find
        > it impossible to translate "tajna" with "sacrament" as the author
        > insists on the notions of mystery and the mystical sense of the
        > sacraments. Although "sacramentum" can clearly mean "secret", I can't
        > keep the English word "sacrament" throughout the whole translation. On
        > the other hand, talking about the seven "mysteries" could be equally
        > confusing, and changing the term according to the context even more
        > so.I am sure some of you have already come across this problem. Any
        > ideas better than a footnote at the beginning?Thanking you all in
        > advance, Branka Nikolic
        >
        >
        > eGroups Sponsor

        >
      • Branka Nikolic
        Dear List members, I am working on a translation of an article from Serbian into English dealing with (among other things) the seven sacraments. The word for
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 17, 2000
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          Dear List members,
           
          I am working on a translation of an article from Serbian into English dealing with (among other things) the seven sacraments. The word for "sacrament" here is "tajna" and corresponds to the Greek "mysterion". The problem is that in most contexts I find it impossible to translate "tajna" with "sacrament" as the author insists on the notions of mystery and the mystical sense of the sacraments. Although "sacramentum" can clearly mean "secret", I can't keep the English word "sacrament" throughout the whole translation. On the other hand, talking about the seven "mysteries" could be equally confusing, and changing the term according to the context even more so.
          I am sure some of you have already come across this problem. Any ideas better than a footnote at the beginning?
          Thanking you all in advance,
           
          Branka Nikolic
        • Branka Nikolic
          Thank you Katina and Juvenaly for your answers. My main concern is to make the article comprehensible to English speakers - it is going to appear in a
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 17, 2000
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            Thank you Katina and Juvenaly for your answers. My main concern is to make the article comprehensible to English speakers - it is going to appear in a classical music periodical and perhaps I shouldn't expect the readers to be familiar with theological issues, which is why I wanted to use "sacraments". However, if "mysteries" is used by English speaking Orthodox Christians, that in a way solves my problem, so I have decided to keep it throughout the text, as I would find it impossible to use "sacrament" consistently (I HAVE added a footnote, though).
            Regards,
             
            Branka
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