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Luke 3:36 and the LXX

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  • Wieland Willker
    I would be interested to know if there are any LXX manuscripts that omit KAINAN in Genesis: Gen 10:22-24 and Gen 11:12-13. My knowledge of LXX textual
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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      I would be interested to know if there are any LXX manuscripts that
      omit KAINAN in Genesis: Gen 10:22-24 and Gen 11:12-13. My knowledge of
      LXX textual criticism is very limited. I would like to know the
      (probable) textual history of these passages. Is it correct that this
      is clearly a Christian phenomenon (Christian editing)? What's the
      evidence?

      Best wishes
      Wieland
      <><
      ------------------------------------------------
      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
    • Steve Puluka
      ... According to Swete s handbook A omits KAINAN in 10:22 and uses the form KAINAM in 10:24. Rahlfs confirms the latter but not the former, there are no
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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        Wieland Willker wrote:
        > I would be interested to know if there are any LXX manuscripts that
        > omit KAINAN in Genesis: Gen 10:22-24 and Gen 11:12-13. My knowledge of
        > LXX textual criticism is very limited. I would like to know the
        > (probable) textual history of these passages. Is it correct that this
        > is clearly a Christian phenomenon (Christian editing)? What's the
        > evidence?
        >

        According to Swete's handbook A omits KAINAN in 10:22 and uses the form
        KAINAM in 10:24. Rahlfs confirms the latter but not the former, there
        are no variant listed for 10:22 at all there.

        No variant on KAINAN is listed in either edition for 11:12-13.

        --
        Steve Puluka
        Masters Student, SS Cyril & Methodius Seminary
        Cantor, Holy Ghost Church, Mckees Rocks PA
        http://www.puluka.com
      • Wieland Willker
        Thanks for the info! The interesting thing is that the name KAINAN is not found in the Masoretic text. It has been argued that it is a Christian addition to
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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          Thanks for the info!
          The interesting thing is that the name KAINAN is not found in the Masoretic text. It has been argued that it is a Christian addition to the LXX in order to bring the genealogy in Genesis in line with Luke. What is the evidence for this? Do we have any pre-Christian Greek evidence for these passages?


          Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><
          ------------------------------------------------
          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
        • Dirk Jongkind
          ... For what it is worth: there are Old Latin manuscript with and without Kainan in Genesis 11. Vulgate is uniform in rejecting Kainan. Cheers, Dirk -- Dirk
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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            Wieland Willker wrote:

            >Thanks for the info!
            >The interesting thing is that the name KAINAN is not found in the Masoretic text. It has been argued that it is a Christian addition to the LXX in order to bring the genealogy in Genesis in line with Luke. What is the evidence for this? Do we have any pre-Christian Greek evidence for these passages?
            >
            >
            For what it is worth: there are Old Latin manuscript with and without
            Kainan in Genesis 11. Vulgate is uniform in rejecting Kainan.

            Cheers,
            Dirk

            --
            Dirk Jongkind, PhD
            John W. Laing Fellow, Tyndale House and St. Edmund's College
            Tyndale House
            36 Selwyn Gardens
            Cambridge, CB3 9BA Phone:(UK) 01223 566603
            United Kingdom Fax: (UK) 01223 566608
          • David Hindley
            Wieland, The name is also found in the Samaritan Pentateuch, Jubilees (Ethiopic for sure, but I do not know about the DSS fragments) and Josephus, so it is
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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              Wieland,

              The name is also found in the Samaritan Pentateuch, Jubilees (Ethiopic for sure, but I do not know about the DSS fragments) and Josephus, so it is likely pre-Christian. However, as far as I know, the major Lxx mss are all believed to have been copied by Christians.

              Respectfully,

              Dave Hindley
              Cleveland, Ohio USA



              -----Original Message-----
              From: sentto-1293705-1750-1135088448-dhindley=compuserve.com@... [mailto:sentto-1293705-1750-1135088448-dhindley=compuserve.com@...] On Behalf Of Wieland Willker
              Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:18 AM
              To: LXX-List
              Subject: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX


              Thanks for the info!
              The interesting thing is that the name KAINAN is not found in the Masoretic text. It has been argued that it is a Christian addition to the LXX in order to bring the genealogy in Genesis in line with Luke. What is the evidence for this? Do we have any pre-Christian Greek evidence for these passages?


              Best wishes
              Wieland
              <><
              ------------------------------------------------
              Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
              mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
              http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
            • Matthew G. Hamilton
              Wieland, Gen 10:22-24 and Gen 11:12-13:-- -- are not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls -- are not found in any of the pre Christian LXX manuscripts -- are only
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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                Wieland,

                Gen 10:22-24 and Gen 11:12-13:--
                -- are not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls
                -- are not found in any of the pre Christian LXX manuscripts
                -- are only found in 2 LXX manuscripts that predate the Great Codices, see
                P.Berlin Graec.Fol.66 I,II (Rahlfs 911), a Christian MS of about the late
                3rd century
                P.Beatty IV (Rahlfs 961), a Christian MS of about the early 4th century

                Apologies, but I don't have my editions of these MSS with me at the moment
                to check the readings, and I don't have much knowledge of later MSS

                Matthew Hamilton
                Moore Theological College Library
                1 King Street Newtown NSW 2042
                Australia
                matthew.hamilton@...


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              • Robert Kraft
                The sequence KAIKAINANKAI at Gen 10.22 is ripe for corruption and variation. If you want to see how much, check Wevers Gottingen edition, which you can also
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 20, 2005
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                  The sequence KAIKAINANKAI at Gen 10.22 is ripe for corruption and variation. If
                  you want to see how much, check Wevers' Gottingen edition, which you can also
                  see online at

                  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/biblical/lxxvar/1Pentateuch/1Gen-gk.htm
                  (with unicode Greek) or at

                  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/biblical/lxxvar/1Pentateuch/1Gen-all.txt
                  in "beta" coded transliteration.

                  Figuring out, unaided, the Goettingen sigla as adapted by CATSS is another
                  matter, but it is not impossible, and has its own rewards! There is much
                  confusion in the textual witnesses on these matters. I doubt that there is
                  anything certifiably "Christian" about any of it.

                  Bob

                  > Wieland,
                  >
                  > Gen 10:22-24 and Gen 11:12-13:--
                  > -- are not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls
                  > -- are not found in any of the pre Christian LXX manuscripts
                  > -- are only found in 2 LXX manuscripts that predate the Great Codices, see
                  > P.Berlin Graec.Fol.66 I,II (Rahlfs 911), a Christian MS of about the late
                  > 3rd century
                  > P.Beatty IV (Rahlfs 961), a Christian MS of about the early 4th century
                  >
                  > Apologies, but I don't have my editions of these MSS with me at the moment
                  > to check the readings, and I don't have much knowledge of later MSS
                  >
                  > Matthew Hamilton
                  > Moore Theological College Library
                  > 1 King Street Newtown NSW 2042
                  > Australia
                  > matthew.hamilton@...
                  >
                  >
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                  > Forward undetected SPAM to: spam@...
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                  --
                  Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania
                  227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827
                  kraft@...
                  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/kraft.html
                • Wieland Willker
                  Thanks for your answers! ... Could you provide references? I can t find it in Josephus. In Ant. book 1 he explicitly writes: Shem, the third son of Noah, had
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 21, 2005
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                    Thanks for your answers!

                    Dave Hindley:
                    > The name is also found in the Samaritan Pentateuch,
                    > and Josephus

                    Could you provide references? I can't find it in Josephus. In Ant. book 1 he explicitly writes: "Shem, the third son of Noah, had **five** sons"
                    and also: "Sala was the son of Arphaxad"


                    Can someone please help me with the syntax of the Goettingen edition? From my limited understanding I take it that only MS 319 omits both in ch. 10 and 11. P833, P911 and P961 omit Kainan in 10:24 but have it in 10:22, and also have it in chapter 11. Is that correct?
                    What is MS 319? Date?


                    Robert Kraft:
                    > I doubt that there is anything certifiably "Christian"
                    > about any of it.

                    The point is that up to now I have no provable pre-Christian references for the name KAINAN in Genesis 10 and 11. It does not occur in the Masoretic text. This has lead some to the explanation that the name was added to bring the genealogy in line with Lk 3:36.
                    Or is this just one of the many differences of the LXX and the Masoretic text? How did it originate?

                    Best wishes
                    Wieland
                    <><
                    ------------------------------------------------
                    Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                    mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
                    http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                  • David Hindley
                    Weiland, Dang! Wrong Cain. You are right, the second Cain is not found in Josephus (or SP). Outside the Lxx, it is found in Jubilees. That would still, of
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 21, 2005
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                      Weiland,

                      Dang! Wrong Cain.

                      You are right, the second Cain is not found in Josephus (or SP). Outside the Lxx, it is found in Jubilees. That would still, of course, make it pre Christian if the Ethiopic translation using this name was not influenced by the NT or Lxx. I do not have the resources to determine whether the DSS fragments of Jubilees includes this passage.

                      Respectfully,

                      Dave Hindley
                      Cleveland, Ohio USA



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: sentto-1293705-1755-1135158377-dhindley=compuserve.com@... [mailto:sentto-1293705-1755-1135158377-dhindley=compuserve.com@...] On Behalf Of Wieland Willker
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:31 AM
                      To: LXX-List
                      Subject: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX


                      Thanks for your answers!

                      Dave Hindley:
                      > The name is also found in the Samaritan Pentateuch, and Josephus

                      Could you provide references? I can't find it in Josephus. In Ant. book 1 he explicitly writes: "Shem, the third son of Noah, had **five** sons" and also: "Sala was the son of Arphaxad"

                      [snip]
                    • Ken Penner
                      ... The relevant fragment is 11Q12 2. Only a few letters from each line have been preserved. These letters are compatible with the Ethiopic text at 4:13-14,
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 21, 2005
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                        Dave wrote:

                        > I do not have the resources to determine whether the DSS
                        > fragments of Jubilees includes this passage.

                        The relevant fragment is 11Q12 2.
                        Only a few letters from each line have been preserved. These letters are compatible with the Ethiopic text at 4:13-14, but QYNN's name would have fallen in parts of lines 2 and 3 that have been lost.

                        Ken Penner, McMaster/DSS
                        Dead Sea Scrolls scholars' list owner, http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot
                      • Wieland Willker
                        ... But this is not the Cain we are talking about, in chapter 4 we have the story of Cain and Abel. We need a Cain in Jub. ch. 7, where I read in the online
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                          > The relevant fragment is 11Q12 2. Only a few letters > from each line have been preserved. These letters are
                          > compatible with the Ethiopic text at 4:13-14, but
                          > QYNN's name would have fallen in parts of lines 2
                          > and 3 that have been lost.


                          But this is not the Cain we are talking about, in chapter 4 we have the story of Cain and Abel. We need a Cain in Jub. ch. 7, where I read in the online version:
                          "And these are the sons of Shem: Elam, and Asshur, and Arpachshad -this (son) was born two years after the flood- and 19 Lud, and Aram."
                          No Cain, which is consistent with the Masoretic text.

                          So, no pre-Christian Cain in Gen 10 + 11. Also Josephus and Julius Africanus both don't have it and both cite the LXX. The earliest evidence we have (so far) is from the late 3rd CE (and Lk 3:36).

                          Best wishes
                          Wieland
                          <><
                          ------------------------------------------------
                          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                          mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
                          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                        • Ken Penner
                          Sorry about the wrong QYNN. I was thinking of the son of Enosh, not the son of Shem. My mistake. Let s try again. Jubilees 7 is not preserved in the Qumran
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                            Sorry about the wrong QYNN. I was thinking of the son of Enosh, not the son of Shem. My mistake.
                            Let's try again.

                            Jubilees 7 is not preserved in the Qumran fragments.

                            However, the Genesis Apocryphon lists the sons of Shem at 1QapGen 12:11. The beginning of the list has been lost, but the end is there. The list is in the same order as the LXX, so fortunately we can see where the KAINAN would have been at the end of the list. It is not there. We have: ...WR )RPK$D LWD W)RM WBNN NQBN XM$ (...ur Arpachshad Lud and Aram and five daughters). No QYNN.

                            Ken Penner, McMaster/DSS
                            Dead Sea Scrolls scholars' list owner, http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot



                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf Of Wieland Willker
                            > Sent: December 22, 2005 4:20 AM
                            > To: LXX-List
                            > Subject: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX
                            >
                            > > The relevant fragment is 11Q12 2. Only a few letters > from
                            > each line have been preserved. These letters are
                            > > compatible with the Ethiopic text at 4:13-14, but
                            > > QYNN's name would have fallen in parts of lines 2
                            > > and 3 that have been lost.
                            >
                            >
                            > But this is not the Cain we are talking about, in chapter 4
                            > we have the story of Cain and Abel. We need a Cain in Jub.
                            > ch. 7, where I read in the online version:
                            > "And these are the sons of Shem: Elam, and Asshur, and
                            > Arpachshad -this (son) was born two years after the flood-
                            > and 19 Lud, and Aram."
                            > No Cain, which is consistent with the Masoretic text.
                          • David Hindley
                            Wieland W. and Ken P., The Cain under discussion was not a son of Shem, but of Arphaxad. The passage in the Ethiopic version of Jubilees mentioning KAINAM, son
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                              Wieland W. and Ken P.,

                              The Cain under discussion was not a son of Shem, but of Arphaxad.

                              The passage in the Ethiopic version of Jubilees mentioning KAINAM, son of ARPACHSHAD, which corresponds to the KAINAN son of ARFAXAD mentioned in Lxx Genesis 10:22-24 and the parallel account in Genesis 11:12-13, would be Jubilees 8:1-4.

                              Jubilees 8:1 In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu'eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she bare him a son in the third year in this week [Anno Mundi 1375], and he called his name Kainam. 2 And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for himself a city. 3 And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and stars in all the signs of heaven. 4 And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. [APOT vol II page 25, e-text from a user supplied database for Bibleworks 6.0]

                              Genesis 10:22 Sons of Sem, Elam, and Assur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Cainan. 23 And sons of Aram, Uz, and Ul, and Gater, and Mosoch. 24 And Arphaxad begot Cainan, and Cainan begot Sala. And Sala begot Heber.

                              Genesis 11:12 And Arphaxad lived a hundred and thirty-five years, and begot Cainan. 13 And Arphaxad lived after he had begotten Cainan, four hundred years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. And Cainan lived a hundred and thirty years and begot Sala; and Canaan lived after he had begotten Sala, three hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters, and died. [e-edition of Brenton's translation included with Bibleworks 6.0]

                              As to whether one text influenced the other or relied upon a mutual source or tradition, it is interesting to note that the Lxx has the year of his birth as variously A.M. 2377 or 2397 (depending on variant) when his father was 135 years of age, while Jubilees would correspond to a date of birth of A.M. 1375, when Kainam's father would be 65 years of age.

                              Respectfully,

                              Dave Hindley
                              Cleveland, Ohio USA


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: sentto-1293705-1758-1135239746-dhindley=compuserve.com@... [mailto:sentto-1293705-1758-1135239746-dhindley=compuserve.com@...] On Behalf Of Wieland Willker
                              Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:20 AM
                              To: LXX-List
                              Subject: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX


                              >>[Ken P.] The relevant fragment is 11Q12 2. Only a few letters > from each line have been preserved. These letters are compatible with the Ethiopic text at 4:13-14, but QYNN's name would have fallen in parts of lines 2 and 3 that have been lost.<<

                              But this is not the Cain we are talking about, in chapter 4 we have the story of Cain and Abel. We need a Cain in Jub. ch. 7, where I read in the online version: "And these are the sons of Shem: Elam, and Asshur, and Arpachshad -this (son) was born two years after the flood- and 19 Lud, and Aram." No Cain, which is consistent with the Masoretic text.

                              So, no pre-Christian Cain in Gen 10 + 11. Also Josephus and Julius Africanus both don't have it and both cite the LXX. The earliest evidence we have (so far) is from the late 3rd CE (and Lk 3:36).

                              Best wishes
                              Wieland
                              <><
                            • David Hindley
                              Ken, We re actually dealing with Jubilees 8:1-4. It is hard to tell whether the he in vs. 5 ( he took to himself a wife ) refers to Arpachshad or Kainan, but
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                                Ken,

                                We're actually dealing with Jubilees 8:1-4. It is hard to tell whether the "he" in vs. 5 ("he took to himself a wife") refers to Arpachshad or Kainan, but I'm now thinking it was Arpachshad, meaning Kainan's story was a digression from the genealogy.

                                The scroll catalogue in the fourth edition of Vermes' _Dead Sea Scrolls in English_ lists the DSS fragments of Jubilees as 1Q17 & 18; 2Q19 & 20; 3Q5; 4Q216 to 224 (225 & 226 are Jubilees like but not identical, and 227 is a work that cites Jubilees); and 11Q12 (which you already cited).

                                Which of these, if any, contains Jubilees 8:1-3 I just don't know.

                                Respectfully,

                                Dave Hindley
                                Cleveland, Ohio USA



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: sentto-1293705-1759-1135257123-dhindley=compuserve.com@... [mailto:sentto-1293705-1759-1135257123-dhindley=compuserve.com@...] On Behalf Of Ken Penner
                                Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 8:12 AM
                                To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX


                                Sorry about the wrong QYNN. I was thinking of the son of Enosh, not the son of Shem. My mistake.
                                Let's try again.

                                Jubilees 7 is not preserved in the Qumran fragments.

                                However, the Genesis Apocryphon lists the sons of Shem at 1QapGen 12:11. The beginning of the list has been lost, but the end is there. The list is in the same order as the LXX, so fortunately we can see where the KAINAN would have been at the end of the list. It is not there. We have: ...WR )RPK$D LWD W)RM WBNN NQBN XM$ (...ur Arpachshad Lud and Aram and five daughters). No QYNN.

                                Ken Penner, McMaster/DSS
                                Dead Sea Scrolls scholars' list owner, http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/g-megillot



                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                > Wieland Willker
                                > Sent: December 22, 2005 4:20 AM
                                > To: LXX-List
                                > Subject: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX
                                >
                                > > The relevant fragment is 11Q12 2. Only a few letters > from
                                > each line have been preserved. These letters are
                                > > compatible with the Ethiopic text at 4:13-14, but QYNN's name would
                                > > have fallen in parts of lines 2 and 3 that have been lost.
                                >
                                >
                                > But this is not the Cain we are talking about, in chapter 4 we have
                                > the story of Cain and Abel. We need a Cain in Jub.
                                > ch. 7, where I read in the online version:
                                > "And these are the sons of Shem: Elam, and Asshur, and Arpachshad
                                > -this (son) was born two years after the flood- and 19 Lud, and Aram."
                                > No Cain, which is consistent with the Masoretic text.



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                              • Ken Penner
                                ... None of the Qumran fragments contain Jubilees 8. The extant parts of the Latin of Jubilees begin at 8:10. A Syriac fragment has most of 8:2-4. The Latin
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                                  > Which of these, if any, contains Jubilees 8:1-3 I just don't know.

                                  None of the Qumran fragments contain Jubilees 8.
                                  The extant parts of the Latin of Jubilees begin at 8:10.
                                  A Syriac fragment has most of 8:2-4.

                                  The Latin and Ethiopic manuscripts of Jubilees tend to be harmonized to the Vulgate and LXX (via the Ethiopic OT).
                                  However, the Syriac could be an independent witness to the pre-Christian text of Jubilees if it is translated directly from the Hebrew, as Tisserant argued.

                                  Ken Penner
                                  Co-Director, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha: http://www.uwo.ca/kings/ocp/
                                  Flash! Pro vocabulary software: http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash
                                • Wieland Willker
                                  ... Well, acc. to Gen 10:24, but acc. to Gen 10:22 he looks like a son of Shem. Perhaps the name was omitted at some stage to get rid of this problem? Not of
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                                    > The Cain under discussion was not a son of Shem,
                                    > but of Arphaxad.


                                    Well, acc. to Gen 10:24, but acc. to Gen 10:22 he looks like a son of Shem. Perhaps the name was omitted at some stage to get rid of this problem? Not of relevance here, though.

                                    Thanks for alerting me to Jubilees 8:1-5. Not sure though to take "he" for Arphaxad.


                                    Best wishes
                                    Wieland
                                    <><
                                    ------------------------------------------------
                                    Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                                    mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
                                    http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                                  • David Hindley
                                    Wieland, Ahhh. I did not notice that fine difference! It did appear to be a digression in Jubilees, and thus may not have been a part of it originally. Ken
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                                      Wieland,

                                      Ahhh. I did not notice that fine difference!

                                      It did appear to be a digression in Jubilees, and thus may not have been a part of it originally.

                                      Ken Penner, though, said a Syriac fragment, which may be independent of the Ethiopic, has 8:2-4. If 8:2-4 did not originally refer to Kainan, then who? I did not notice either R H Charles (_APOT_) or O S Wintermute (Charlesworth's _OT Pseudepigrapha_) refer to this discrepancy in the footnotes to their translations.

                                      Interesting ...

                                      Dave Hindley
                                      Cleveland, Ohio USA



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: sentto-1293705-1763-1135266830-dhindley=compuserve.com@... [mailto:sentto-1293705-1763-1135266830-dhindley=compuserve.com@...] On Behalf Of Wieland Willker
                                      Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:40 AM
                                      To: LXX-List
                                      Subject: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX


                                      > The Cain under discussion was not a son of Shem, but of Arphaxad.


                                      Well, acc. to Gen 10:24, but acc. to Gen 10:22 he looks like a son of Shem. Perhaps the name was omitted at some stage to get rid of this problem? Not of relevance here, though.

                                      Thanks for alerting me to Jubilees 8:1-5. Not sure though to take "he" for Arphaxad.


                                      Best wishes
                                      Wieland
                                      <><
                                      ------------------------------------------------
                                      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                                      mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
                                      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie



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                                    • David Hindley
                                      Ken, I wonder of the Syriac fragment of 8:2-4 follows the text of the Ethiopic closely, or deviates. If it follows it pretty closely, we could assume with a
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                                        Ken,

                                        I wonder of the Syriac fragment of 8:2-4 follows the text of the Ethiopic closely, or deviates. If it follows it pretty closely, we could assume with a fair degree of probability that 8:1 referred to Kainan. If not, then anything is possible.

                                        Respectfully,

                                        Dave Hindley
                                        Cleveland, Ohio USA



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: sentto-1293705-1762-1135262975-dhindley=compuserve.com@... [mailto:sentto-1293705-1762-1135262975-dhindley=compuserve.com@...] On Behalf Of Ken Penner
                                        Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:48 AM
                                        To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [lxx] Re: Luke 3:36 and the LXX


                                        > Which of these, if any, contains Jubilees 8:1-3 I just don't know.

                                        None of the Qumran fragments contain Jubilees 8.
                                        The extant parts of the Latin of Jubilees begin at 8:10.
                                        A Syriac fragment has most of 8:2-4.

                                        The Latin and Ethiopic manuscripts of Jubilees tend to be harmonized to the Vulgate and LXX (via the Ethiopic OT).
                                        However, the Syriac could be an independent witness to the pre-Christian text of Jubilees if it is translated directly from the Hebrew, as Tisserant argued.

                                        Ken Penner
                                      • Ken Penner
                                        I don t have the Syriac text here. The references I have are I. E. Rahmani, Chronicon civile et ecclesiasticum anonymi auctoris, (Charfé, 1904). J.-B. Chabot,
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 22, 2005
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                                          I don't have the Syriac text here. The references I have are

                                          I. E. Rahmani, Chronicon civile et ecclesiasticum anonymi auctoris, (Charfé, 1904).
                                          J.-B. Chabot, Chronicon ad annum Christi 1234 pertinens (Louvain, 1953=Paris, 1920), 27-60.
                                          E. Tisserant, "Fragments syriaques du Livre des Jubilés," Revue Biblique 30 (1921): 55-86, 206-232.
                                          A. Ceriani, Monumenta sacra et profana 2 (Milano), 1:ix-x.

                                          Wintermute refers to the fragment in OTP. He notes two differences between the Syriac and the Ethiopic in this passage, each involving only one letter, so I presume that there are no more major differences between the two here.

                                          Ken Penner
                                          Co-Director, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha: http://www.uwo.ca/kings/ocp/
                                          Flash! Pro vocabulary software: http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash


                                          > I wonder of the Syriac fragment of 8:2-4 follows the text of
                                          > the Ethiopic closely, or deviates. If it follows it pretty
                                          > closely, we could assume with a fair degree of probability
                                          > that 8:1 referred to Kainan. If not, then anything is possible.
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