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Re: James 4:5 and Deuterocanonicals/Apocrypha

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  • SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH
    ... The New American Bible for Catholics has the following note on James 4:5: The meaning of this saying is difficult because the author of Jas cites,
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 23, 2005
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      >X-Sender: jim@...
      >X-Apparently-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
      >From: "patandjimellis" <jim@...>
      >X-Yahoo-Profile: patandjimellis
      >Sender: lxx@yahoogroups.com
      >Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:03:15 -0000
      >Subject: [lxx] James 4:5

      >James 4:5 says, "Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, 'The
      >Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously.'" This is quoted from The
      >Complete Apostles' Bible. Other versions read similarly. This is
      >presented as a quote from the Old Testament but I don't know of a
      >verse or verses like this in the OT. In the Macarthur Study Bible, the
      >author has the following note:
      >"Scripture says. A common NT way of introducing an OT quote.... The
      >quote that follows, however, is not foound as such in the OT; it is a
      >composit of general OT teaching..." page 1932 of the MacArthur Study
      >Bible.

      >Does anyone have any insight on this? Is this perhaps a quote from an
      >apocryphal book?

      >On Oct 7th, Cindy Smith responded to one of my posts and provided a
      >list of "New Testament references to the deuterocanonicals/apocrypha
      >of the Old Testament." There were several passages cross referenced
      >for the Episte of James but there was no listing for James 4:5 included.

      The New American Bible for Catholics has the following note on
      James 4:5: "The meaning of this saying is difficult because the
      author of Jas cites, probably from memory, a passage that is not in
      any extant manuscript of the Bible. Other translations of the text
      with a completely different meaning are possible: 'The Spirit that he
      (God) made to dwell in us yearns (for us) jealously,' or, 'He (God)
      yearns jealously for the spirit that he has made to dwell in us.' If
      this last translation is correct, the author perhaps had in mind an
      apocryphal religious text that echoes the idea that God is zealous for
      his creatures; cf Ex 20, 5; Dt 4, 24; Zec 8, 2."



      Cindy Smith, M.A. Philosophy (Program in Religious Studies)
      cms@... Unless the LORD build the house,
      cms@... they labor in vain who build.
      Me transmitte sursum, Unless the LORD guard the city,
      Caledoni! in vain does the guard keep watch. -- Psalm 127:1
      Dulce et decorum est All your base are belong to us.
      pro patria mori You have set up us the bomb.
      A Real Live Catholic You are on the way to destruction.
      in Georgia! What you say?
      >->> <<-< Go against the flow! You have no chance to survive make your time.
      Si vis pacem, para bellum. -- Flavius Vegetius
      Si Deus nobiscum, quis contra nos?
      Si post fata venit gloria, non propero! -- Martial
    • Christopher M. Fincher
      As I could find nothing, I resolved to consult Lenski, who says: We are not convinced that the question is a formula of quotation. Such a formula has never
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 23, 2005
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        As I could find nothing, I resolved to consult Lenski, who says:

        "We are not convinced that the question is a formula of quotation. Such
        a formula has never been used.... If a quotation were to follow, we
        should certainly expect the addition, 'saying that.'"

        Which is to say, we don't have the typical GEGRAPTAI ESTIN here, so it
        must not necessarily be a quote

        "What follows has never been verified as being a quotation; nothing like
        it has been found in any writings, as all admit... The idea is not that
        this is a quotation, but that it is a teaching of Scripture, and by no
        means empty."

        Which is to say, we can't find it, either, so it must not necessarily be
        a quote.

        A BibleWorks search reveals nothing, marginal references in the NA27
        reveal nothing, and I had better get around to things that have actually
        been assigned by my professors, so I leave you. Back to lurking in the
        land of shadows here in the northern reaches of Indiana.

        Chris

        SPAWN OF A JEWISH CARPENTER: CINDY SMITH wrote:

        >>X-Sender: jim@...
        >>X-Apparently-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
        >>From: "patandjimellis" <jim@...>
        >>X-Yahoo-Profile: patandjimellis
        >>Sender: lxx@yahoogroups.com
        >>Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:03:15 -0000
        >>Subject: [lxx] James 4:5
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >>James 4:5 says, "Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, 'The
        >>Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously.'" This is quoted from The
        >>Complete Apostles' Bible. Other versions read similarly. This is
        >>presented as a quote from the Old Testament but I don't know of a
        >>verse or verses like this in the OT. In the Macarthur Study Bible, the
        >>author has the following note:
        >>"Scripture says. A common NT way of introducing an OT quote.... The
        >>quote that follows, however, is not foound as such in the OT; it is a
        >>composit of general OT teaching..." page 1932 of the MacArthur Study
        >>Bible.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >>Does anyone have any insight on this? Is this perhaps a quote from an
        >>apocryphal book?
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >>On Oct 7th, Cindy Smith responded to one of my posts and provided a
        >>list of "New Testament references to the deuterocanonicals/apocrypha
        >>of the Old Testament." There were several passages cross referenced
        >>for the Episte of James but there was no listing for James 4:5 included.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >The New American Bible for Catholics has the following note on
        >James 4:5: "The meaning of this saying is difficult because the
        >author of Jas cites, probably from memory, a passage that is not in
        >any extant manuscript of the Bible. Other translations of the text
        >with a completely different meaning are possible: 'The Spirit that he
        >(God) made to dwell in us yearns (for us) jealously,' or, 'He (God)
        >yearns jealously for the spirit that he has made to dwell in us.' If
        >this last translation is correct, the author perhaps had in mind an
        >apocryphal religious text that echoes the idea that God is zealous for
        >his creatures; cf Ex 20, 5; Dt 4, 24; Zec 8, 2."
        >
        >
        >
        >Cindy Smith, M.A. Philosophy (Program in Religious Studies)
        >cms@... Unless the LORD build the house,
        >cms@... they labor in vain who build.
        >Me transmitte sursum, Unless the LORD guard the city,
        > Caledoni! in vain does the guard keep watch. -- Psalm 127:1
        >Dulce et decorum est All your base are belong to us.
        > pro patria mori You have set up us the bomb.
        >A Real Live Catholic You are on the way to destruction.
        > in Georgia! What you say?
        >
        >
        >>->> <<-< Go against the flow! You have no chance to survive make your time.
        >>
        >>
        >Si vis pacem, para bellum. -- Flavius Vegetius
        >Si Deus nobiscum, quis contra nos?
        >Si post fata venit gloria, non propero! -- Martial
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Ken Penner
        Denis in ILRJH (2000), 483-484 mentions: Hermes, Mand. 3:1 (=29.1) Eldad & Modad (Numbers 11:29) (see commentaries on James by Spitta, and by Cantinat).
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 24, 2005
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          Denis in ILRJH (2000), 483-484 mentions:

          Hermes, Mand. 3:1 (=29.1)
          Eldad & Modad (Numbers 11:29) (see commentaries on James by Spitta, and by
          Cantinat).
          Midrash Bemidbar Rabbah, par. 15. (Slotki [1961], 663-664 )

          Ken Penner
          Co-Director, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha: http://www.uwo.ca/kings/ocp/
          Flash! Pro vocabulary software: http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash


          > >James 4:5 says, "Or do you think that the Scripture says in
          > vain, 'The
          > >Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously.'" This is quoted from The
          > >Complete Apostles' Bible. Other versions read similarly. This is
          > >presented as a quote from the Old Testament but I don't know of a
          > >verse or verses like this in the OT. In the Macarthur Study
          > Bible, the
          > >author has the following note:
          > >"Scripture says. A common NT way of introducing an OT quote.... The
          > >quote that follows, however, is not foound as such in the OT; it is a
          > >composit of general OT teaching..." page 1932 of the MacArthur Study
          > >Bible.
          >
          > >Does anyone have any insight on this? Is this perhaps a quote from an
          > >apocryphal book?
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