Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [lxx] Apocrypha quoted in NT?

Expand Messages
  • Pat and Jim Ellis
    ... ... I have read the book of Enoch, in which angels help build Noahs ark, and, where the nephilim are indeed giants (many metres tall), and after the
    Message 1 of 43 , Oct 7, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      --- John Jackson <john_p_b_jackson@...> wrote:


      ---------------------------------
      ... I have read the book of Enoch, in which angels
      help build Noahs ark, and, where the nephilim are
      indeed "giants" (many metres tall), and after the
      flood get turned into sirens and mermaids!!! (or
      dolphins) ...

      How did these giants survive the flood if they were
      not part of Noah's family, the eight souls which were saved?
    • johnny silver
      Other apocryphal works reflect knowledge of the Enoch story of the Watchers, notably the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs and the Book of Jubilees. Many of
      Message 43 of 43 , Oct 14, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Other apocryphal works reflect knowledge of the Enoch
        story of the Watchers, notably the Testaments of the
        Twelve Patriarchs and the Book of Jubilees. Many of
        the early church fathers also supported the Enochian
        writings. Justin Martyr ascribed all evil to demons
        whom he alleged to be the offspring of the angels who
        fell through lust for women (from the Ibid.)? directly
        referencing the Enochian writings. Athenagoras,
        writing in his work called Legatio in about 170 A.D.,
        regards Enoch as a true prophet. He describes the
        angels which "violated both their own nature and their
        office." In his writings, he goes into detail about
        the nature of fallen angels and the cause of their
        fall, which comes directly from the Enochian writings.
        Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus,
        Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria
        (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255);
        Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of
        Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of
        Milanalso, also approved of and supported the Enochian
        writings. The twentieth-century discovery of several
        Aramaic Enochian texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls
        prompted Catholic scholar J.T. Milik to compile a
        complete history of the Enochian writings, including
        translations of the Aramaic manuscripts. Milik's
        400-page book, published in 1976 by Oxford (J. T.
        Milik, ed. and trans., The Books of Enoch: Aramaic
        Fragments of Qumran Cave 4, Oxford: Clarendon Press,
        1976) is a milestone in Enochian scholarship, and
        Milik himself is no doubt one of the finest experts on
        the subject. His opinions, based as they are on years
        of in-depth research, are highly respected. One by one
        the arguments against the Book of Enoch fade away. The
        day may soon arrive when the final complaints about
        the Book of Enoch's lack of historicity and "late
        date" are also silenced by new evidence of the book's
        real antiquity. TheFinalTruthMinistry@...
        EARLY church fathers and bishops. What more do we
        need? Oh! The early church fathers used LXX that said
        Angels in Gen 6:4!!!!!! Thanks a lot guys at NETS !
        --- Chris Gait <zhouyi235@...> wrote:


        ---------------------------------
        Moderator:

        "Johnny Silver's postings have now moved firmly into
        the realm of ad hominem. Please act before this
        escalates.

        Chris Gait

        --- johnny silver <naxxos377@...> wrote:

        > Hi Philip, i can tell that your making off the cuff
        > remarks. The only qualifacation needed is sincere
        > research.
        >
        > Philip Silouan Thompson <himself@...>
        > wrote:johnny silver <naxxos377@...> wrote:
        > > This book is pre-Jewish. Its an ancient book! Its
        > > claims are huge! Please investigate for yourself
        > and
        > > then make your own conclusions. I`ll throw in any
        > info
        > > i`ve come across.
        >
        > Hi Johnny,
        >
        > Actually the claims that a book makes about itself
        > are not very important. After all *every* apocalypse
        > and apocryphal gospel claims to be true and ancient
        > and from the hand of an apostle :-)
        >
        > What is of interest is how the text was transmitted
        > and how history is documented to have regarded it.
        > I'm not aware of any Christian council or hierarch
        > recommending it.
        >
        > I know Irenaeus and a few other early writers
        > alluded to or quoted 1 Enoch in passing, but that's
        > to be expected from the book's popularity.
        > Interestingly as we watch the concept of a Christian
        > canon grow stronger over the first three or four
        > Christian centuries, we see references to 1 Enoch
        > diminish and disappear. The fact that only the
        > Ethiopian Church includes 1 Enoch in their Bible
        > (and in a very different version) ought to be a clue
        > that the book didn't stand the test of time.
        >
        > Within the text of 1 Enoch, Christians felt free to
        > replace the older "Book of Giants" section with the
        > Christian "Similitudes". To me that says Christians
        > saw 1 Enoch as a piece of popular religious
        > literature, not as Scripture; nobody casually
        > replaces a section of a text he regards as inspired.
        >
        > Meanwhile the fringes of Judaism kept on cranking
        > out Enoch literature (for example there's the
        > third-century A.D. book of 3 Enoch) but I've read
        > that the second-century A.D. Rabbi Simeon ben Yochai
        > cursed all who read the Enoch literature; he felt it
        > drove dangerous messianic movements like those of
        > Simon Bar Kochba, and of Jesus.
        >
        > As for 1 Enoch being pre-Jewish, I'm not qualified
        > to say whether there's a pre-Jewish core in the
        > work, but the fact that the book condemns those who
        > returned from exile in Babylon (see 89:73; 93:9)
        > should tell us that the versions of 1 Enoch we have
        > today aren't that ancient.
        >
        > Just some observations,
        >
        > Silouan Thompson
        > Walla Walla, Washington
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        > Visit your group "lxx" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
        > to:
        > lxx-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC
        > calling worldwide with voicemail




        __________________________________
        Yahoo! Music Unlimited
        Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
        http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


        ---------------------------------
        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


        Visit your group "lxx" on the web.

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        lxx-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of Service.


        ---------------------------------






        ___________________________________________________________
        To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.