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General hello

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  • t2uth_seeker
    As a new member of the group, I thougt Id best say hello. I live in Australia, am 22 and very interested in LXX studies. I am considering undertaking studies
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 22, 2005
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      As a new member of the group, I thougt Id best say hello.

      I live in Australia, am 22 and very interested in LXX studies.
      I am considering undertaking studies on the LXX and Hellenistic Greek
      someone day in the future.

      Im writing out a comparison of the book of Job in the NIV and Brentons
      version, and highlighting the differences, adding notes etc. Its been
      very educational.

      Im probably the least educated in LXX things here, and I hope to grow
      in knowlege.

      John
    • bartbeast
      Hello John, Can you give us any highlights of what you have found in your comparison? Do these differences seem to be an issue between the use of the
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 28, 2005
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        Hello John,

        Can you give us any highlights of what you have found in your
        comparison? Do these differences seem to be an issue between the
        use of the Masoretic text for the NIV or just a bad job of
        translation period?

        Bart

        --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "t2uth_seeker" <t2uth_seeker@y...> wrote:
        > As a new member of the group, I thougt Id best say hello.
        >
        > I live in Australia, am 22 and very interested in LXX studies.
        > I am considering undertaking studies on the LXX and Hellenistic
        Greek
        > someone day in the future.
        >
        > Im writing out a comparison of the book of Job in the NIV and
        Brentons
        > version, and highlighting the differences, adding notes etc. Its
        been
        > very educational.
        >
        > Im probably the least educated in LXX things here, and I hope to
        grow
        > in knowlege.
        >
        > John
      • Pat and Jim Ellis
        ... Hello John, Can you give us any highlights of what you have found in your comparison? Do these differences seem to be an issue between the use of the
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 28, 2005
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          --- bartbeast <barthome1@...> wrote:


          ---------------------------------
          Hello John,

          Can you give us any highlights of what you have found
          in your
          comparison? Do these differences seem to be an issue
          between the
          use of the Masoretic text for the NIV or just a bad
          job of
          translation period?

          Bart

          This is not from a scholarly viewpoint, but, in the
          Brenton LXX at the end of the book of Job it is
          recorded, "And Job died, an old man and full of days:
          and it is written that he will rise again with those
          whom the Lord raises up." I usually avoid the book of
          Job. It is long and to me it is depressing, but I have
          quoted from it in funeral sermon I delivered and I
          also included the LXX addition about Job's hope of the
          resurrection.

          Jim Ellis
          Cincinnati, OH, USA
        • John Jackson
          Dear Bart, Thankyou for your interest in what has been a result of much work. Im still not done. My wife has done a similar thing with the book of Jeremiah.
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 29, 2005
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            Dear Bart,

            Thankyou for your interest in what has been a result of much work. Im still not done. My wife has done a similar thing with the book of Jeremiah.

            I'll give you some small differences and some larger ones, for interests sake.

            Job offers "one calf as a sin offering for each child", in Job 1:5, which the MT doesnt mention.

            There seems to of been a translation error on behalf of the original LXX writers in Job 1:11, where Job will surely "bless" God to his face rather than curse him. Bless is also used in Job 2:5.

            In the MT we hear little of Job's wife. But in the LXX she has a little more to say in Job 2:9- she speaks about how Job's memorial (her children) which she bore with great pain have been taken, and she must now work as a servant, waiting for each sunset, plus a little more complaining, which is understandable in her situation! Its an interesting addition, but it is difficult to say whether or not it belongs in the original story. Unfortunately, we have but a few verses of the Dead Sea Scroll book of Job, and so we are unable to compare to see if this is in a part of the original story.

            Job 2:11- Jobs friends are kings of foreign lands. Eliphaz king of the Themans, Baldad king of the Saucheans, Sophar king of the Mineans. Interesting if the geneaology of Job in the end of the LXX version is to be taken as true (which to me seems fairly feasible).

            Job 6:14. The MT reading gives us the impression that "even if a man forsakes God, it is his friends responsibility to keep being his friend." Different people may see this verse differently. Some people may think this verse does not correspond with other biblical verses about "expelling the evil-doer" etc. In the LXX this verse reads "Mercy has rejected me, and the visitation of the Lord has disregarded me"

            Something that some people may find scary or odd- according to the LXX version of Job, Job had concubines. Job 19:17 (LXX) And I besought my wife, and earnestly begged the sons of my concubines". To me it isnt such a problem that Job have concubines, especially if he be an ancient tribal king, as the geneaology in the end, etc, might indicate.

            In Job 38:14, instead of "the earth taking shape like clay under a seal", the LXX reads "Or didst thou take clay of the ground, and form a living creature, and set it (Greek- "him") with the power of speech upon the earth?" It is interesting to me that the LXX here recalls Gods creation of man.

            And in the end of the book of Job, God says that if it wasnt for Job's sakes, he would have destroyed his three friends!

            There are lots of other differences between the LXX and the MT book of Job, as Im sure you would gather. Perhaps there are major ones I have left out. But these are a handful of interesting things I have discovered. I assume you know about the addition to the end of Job, which seems to of been added at a later date. It certainly seems to have some interesting information, which is possibly true.

            To your second question: I must acknowledge that my knowledge on many matters of translation is far from anything adequet, though I hope to change that in future. I believe however that the differences between the LXX and NIV book of Job are because the NIV uses the MT, and it seems the LXX and MT vary much. Some of it may be a matter of translation. Maybe those who translated the LXX had difficulties with translating certain parts of the book.

            But to me the LXX book of Job seems to make more sense than the MT based NIV in some places. It seems as if the MT "dresses" verses up, makes them more portic or "pretty". But I do also acknowledge that in parts the LXX doesnt seem to make sense- whether that be because hebrew was a difficult language to translate into Greek. I have also heard (though am not sure if it be true), that the LXX book of Job was written fairly late. Maybe that has something to do with any parts that dont seem to make sense.

            I hope I havent bored you with this email. It seems as if two people have emailed me in the one message? And so I'll comment on the second one. Yes, I myself once thought of Job as being a book that dragged on, wasnt of much use to me, and was sort of sombre. But since doing my study, and going through the LXX version of, I have come to have Job as one of my favorite books, at least the LXX version. If you can ever muster the strength, try reading the book in the LXX. I am better able to visualise the events of Job's life in the LXX. Its less poetic. Job seems to complain less and be in the right more so in the LXX.

            Well, this has gone for long enough. Again I hope I didnt bore you.

            John Jackson


            From: Pat and Jim Ellis <jim@...>
            Reply-To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: General hello
            Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:31:32 -0700 (PDT)



            --- bartbeast <barthome1@...> wrote:


            ---------------------------------
            Hello John,

            Can you give us any highlights of what you have found
            in your
            comparison?  Do these differences seem to be an issue
            between the
            use of the Masoretic text for the NIV or just a bad
            job of
            translation period?

            Bart

            This is not from a scholarly viewpoint, but, in the
            Brenton LXX at the end of the book of Job it is
            recorded, "And Job died, an old man and full of days:
            and it is written that he will rise again with those
            whom the Lord raises up." I usually avoid the book of
            Job. It is long and to me it is depressing, but I have
            quoted from it in  funeral sermon I delivered and I
            also included the LXX addition about Job's hope of the
            resurrection.

            Jim Ellis
            Cincinnati, OH, USA


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