Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

The AD and Zoe texts

Expand Messages
  • Peter Papoutsis
    Here is the official response from Holy Transfiguration Monastery. L et me know what you think. I believe it confirms my statement of a Modified version of
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 4, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Here is the official response from Holy Transfiguration Monastery. L et me know what you think. I believe it confirms my statement of a "Modified" version of Rahlfs' while using some, but not all, of the Orthodox Church's LXX litirgical readings.
       
      However, here is another question: Should the Orthodox Church revise its LXX liturgical readings to conform to this text?
       
      Peter

      Note: forwarded message attached.


      Peter A. Papoutsis


      Discover Yahoo!
      Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
    • kraft@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
      The statement about the New English Translation being published by Oxford is not entirely accurate. Rahlfs is being used only where Goettingen is not yet
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 5, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        The statement about the New English Translation being published by Oxford is not
        entirely accurate. Rahlfs is being used only where Goettingen is not yet
        available. For information on the recommended critical texts, see the IOSCS web
        site (also linked to my home page, URL below in the signoff)

        http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/ioscs

        Bob Kraft (hastily, from Rome)

        Quoting Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>:

        > Here is the official response from Holy Transfiguration Monastery. L et me
        > know what you think. I believe it confirms my statement of a "Modified"
        > version of Rahlfs' while using some, but not all, of the Orthodox Church's
        > LXX litirgical readings.
        >
        > However, here is another question: Should the Orthodox Church revise its LXX
        > liturgical readings to conform to this text?
        >
        > Peter
        >
        > Note: forwarded message attached.
        >
        >
        > Peter A. Papoutsis
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Discover Yahoo!
        > Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
      • Peter Papoutsis
        You are correct robert. Further, the AD and Zoe texts are not purely Rahlfs as some, but not all of the Orthodox Churches readings have modified Rahlf s text.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 5, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          You are correct robert. Further, the AD and Zoe texts are not purely Rahlfs as some, but not all of the Orthodox Churches readings have modified Rahlf's text. Further, AD and Zoe obviously chose one text of Joshua (Jesus) over the other where Rahlfs has both listed in his edition.


          Peter A. Papoutsis


          Discover Yahoo!
          Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
        • Mitrophan Chin
          ... Isn t Rahlfs text a reconstruction of what he think is the original LXX based on oldest manuscript evidence? I think the LXX liturgical readings is based
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 6, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            > However, here is another question: Should the
            > Orthodox Church revise its LXX liturgical readings
            > to conform to this text?

            Isn't Rahlfs' text a reconstruction of what he think
            is the original LXX based on oldest manuscript
            evidence? I think the LXX liturgical readings is based
            on the received Byzantine lectionary tradition, and
            shouldn't change just because some one produced an LXX
            OT for academic reasons probably with influence from
            those Greek codices from 4-5th century, and not for
            Orthodox liturgical reasons.

            -Mitrophan

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com
          • Peter Papoutsis
            Although I agree in principle with what you are saying Mitrophan, the Church s OT liturgical readings are not that outrageously different, expcept for one
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 6, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Although I agree in principle with what you are saying Mitrophan, the Church's OT liturgical readings are not that outrageously different, expcept for one portion in Joshua (Jesus), a few places in Isaiah and a number of places in Proverbs.
               
              Should the Orthodox Church not take advantage of the best LXX scholarship there is for liturgical reform as well as unity? The Church would not be changing the LXX text as much as they would be polishing them up in places that they needed polishing.
               
              Agan, these are just thoughts, I'm not a hardliner on this, but wanted to open this question for discussion as to the reformation of the Church's LXX lectionary readings.


              Peter A. Papoutsis


              Discover Yahoo!
              Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
            • Mitrophan Chin
              Since you re making a translation of the whole Greek OT, I guess going with Rahlfs would make it more consistent throughout (that s what lxx.org is doing too I
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 6, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Since you're making a translation of the whole Greek
                OT, I guess going with Rahlfs would make it more
                consistent throughout (that's what lxx.org is doing
                too I think). Then you can probably put the the
                prophetologion variations as footnotes. On the other
                hand, if you were making a translation of the
                prophetologion, then that should be faithful to what's
                in the prophetologion, irregardless of what current
                scholarship says.

                -Mitrophan
                --- Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...> wrote:

                > Although I agree in principle with what you are
                > saying Mitrophan, the Church's OT liturgical
                > readings are not that outrageously different,
                > expcept for one portion in Joshua (Jesus), a few
                > places in Isaiah and a number of places in Proverbs.
                >
                > Should the Orthodox Church not take advantage of the
                > best LXX scholarship there is for liturgical reform
                > as well as unity? The Church would not be changing
                > the LXX text as much as they would be polishing them
                > up in places that they needed polishing.
                >
                > Agan, these are just thoughts, I'm not a hardliner
                > on this, but wanted to open this question for
                > discussion as to the reformation of the Church's LXX
                > lectionary readings.
                >
                >
                > Peter A. Papoutsis


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Peter Papoutsis
                This is what I am doing, except I m following the modified version of Rahlfs as used in the AD/Zoe text and putting the LXX lectionary variants as footnotes.
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 6, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  This is what I am doing, except I'm following the modified version of Rahlfs as used in the AD/Zoe text and putting the LXX lectionary variants as footnotes. What I was simply saying was, should there be LXX reform in the Church's lectionary?
                   
                  I know this is a decision for the Church, but why shouldn't the Church take advanatage of the best LXX text available, with the proviso, of course, that it must conform to the Church's apostolic tradition and faith.
                   
                  AD and Zoe picked Rahlfs' text because to them it was the best text available, at the time. Further, the University of Athens School of Theology is not opposed to the critical study of the LXX text, nor, do I belive, is the Orthodox Church, except for some hard lines, especially among the monastics.
                   
                  So why not use the best LXX text available conforming it to the tradition of the Church. For example, the Church Fathers placed the various LXX passages from Genesis, Isaiah and Proverbs in their given configuration for strict religious reasons that coincided with given religious holidays.
                   
                  This can still be done with the best LXX text available today without, IMO, destroying the religious purpose of the liturgical text as a whole. The deletion of a word or phrase here or there or the correcting of certain word orders and phrases in the LXX readings will not destroy the liturgical purpose of the text, IMO.
                   
                  Anyway, I may be wrong. This is simply speculation on my part.


                  Peter A. Papoutsis


                  Discover Yahoo!
                  Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
                • Mihail Neamtu
                  Could any of you, friends, help me with some patristic references to Psalm 81, verse 6 in particular ( You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you. )? In
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 12, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Could any of you, friends, help me with some patristic references to
                    Psalm 81, verse 6 in particular ("You are gods, sons of the Most High,
                    all of you.")? In the Eastern Orthodox tradition, this verse was used
                    in order to ground the doctrine of deification. However, I don't have
                    access to Norman Russell's definitive monograph on this subject
                    (Oxford, 2004), so who could help with some references? Also, are
                    there any parallels in the New Testament texts? Thanks a lot.

                    Mihail

                    --
                    Mihail Neamtu, Editor
                    Archaeus. Journal in the History of Religions (founded 1997)
                    www.rahr.ro
                  • paeddler
                    ... High, ... John, 10:34ff. I m sure there must be some patristic references to this psalm especially because it was quoted by our Lord. pax et caritas,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 17, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, Mihail Neamtu <mihailneamtu@g...> wrote:
                      > Could any of you, friends, help me with some patristic references to
                      > Psalm 81, verse 6 in particular ("You are gods, sons of the Most
                      High,
                      > all of you.")? Also, are
                      > there any parallels in the New Testament texts? Thanks a lot.
                      >
                      > Mihail
                      >
                      > --
                      > Of course the big n. t. reference is in the Gospel according to
                      John, 10:34ff. I'm sure there must be some patristic references to
                      this psalm especially because it was quoted by our Lord.

                      pax et caritas,
                      dale+
                    • Chris Gait
                      A little Googling produced a couple of leads: There is a reference to Blessed Augustine s homily On Psalm 81 and his teaching of deification. and this on
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 20, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        A little Googling produced a couple of leads:

                        There is a reference to Blessed Augustine's homily On
                        Psalm 81 and his teaching of deification.'

                        and this on Cassiodorus:
                        http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/jod/texts/cassbook/chap5.html


                        Regards,
                        Chris Gait
                        Nokesville, VA

                        --- paeddler <lachodrom@...> wrote:

                        > --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, Mihail Neamtu
                        > <mihailneamtu@g...> wrote:
                        > > Could any of you, friends, help me with some
                        > patristic references to
                        > > Psalm 81, verse 6 in particular ("You are gods,
                        > sons of the Most
                        > High,
                        > > all of you.")? Also, are
                        > > there any parallels in the New Testament texts?
                        > Thanks a lot.
                        > >
                        > > Mihail
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Of course the big n. t. reference is in the Gospel
                        > according to
                        > John, 10:34ff. I'm sure there must be some
                        > patristic references to
                        > this psalm especially because it was quoted by our
                        > Lord.
                        >
                        > pax et caritas,
                        > dale+
                        >
                        >
                        >




                        ____________________________________________________
                        Yahoo! Sports
                        Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
                        http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.