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43[lxx] Re: LXX of the Orthodox Church

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  • welovegod
    Oct 5, 1999
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      Mr Kimmel,

      You will not receive any respect from me in your
      blasphemous commentary. If I needed to speak clearly,
      then I expect a cognisant reply.

      Writing after 30-40 hours of continous labor may make
      spelling mistakes slip by, however it DOES NOT change
      the meaning. I fully admit my failures in this regard,
      for it does speak less of my mind to write with such
      error of spelling.

      The scribes that wrote the bible, themsleves made
      errors suh as this, it showed that they were men, and
      only inpired by the Lord. Your inability to comprehend
      meaning or your acrimanation in delivering retorts of
      disputable character, lies clearly within your own
      ignorance.

      Should I have placed this message that I wrote the
      other nightin a spelling checker, the words and
      characters would be properly aligned and sequenced.

      I have no respect for a short sighted man who offers
      no practical advice in this regard, but nly
      acriminations.

      You, sir, have no business being here.

      Stephen Paul O'Leary


      --- "Roger L.. Kimmel" <rlkimmel@...> wrote:
      > I believe this is enough. Matters of faith and
      > personal opinion do not
      > belong in these discussions, properly scholarly in
      > content. I suggest some
      > remedial English for this individual.
      >
      > Roger L. Kimmel, M.D.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: welovegod <sol_seeker@...>
      > To: <lxx@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 9:11 PM
      > Subject: [lxx] Re: LXX of the Orthodox Church
      >
      >
      > > My expectations is this. The Greek Septuagint is
      > > called LXX, L for the name of the Lord(50), and XX
      > the
      > > roman numerals for ecah hand, five points describe
      > it:
      > > 4 fingers and a thumb. SO LXX translated
      > literately
      > > means Lord's hands, colloquily described in
      > Exodus
      > > 30'2 as written with finger of G-d.
      > > If we believe the scriptures(i expect that is why
      > > most of us are here today), then two things are
      > known:
      > >
      > > (1) The tablets/books given by the Lord to
      > > Moses(Moshe) are lost. Are they in possession of
      > some
      > > church body, forgotten or concealed?
      > >
      > > (2) The Septuagint historically was written down
      > in
      > > ~250 BC by the Greeks with asitance from the king
      > of
      > > ISrael or their preistly leadership (likely the
      > same)
      > >
      > > In any case, these artifacts might have be held
      > > through the ages.. I suspect them or at least on
      > eof
      > > them to be the earliest/oldest transciption, and
      > to be
      > > in possession of the old Greek Orthodox church,
      > which
      > > moved to Serbia. That is my statement of my
      > concern.
      > > Christian Churches there date to the earliest
      > period
      > > of our known world of that era.
      > >
      > > ALso is the Dead Sea Scrolls, at essenes, whihc
      > > translated properly mean essence, the ssence of
      > our
      > > existence is what the Lord God is, isn't it?
      > >
      > > I aintain a belief that the first two books weer
      > > written doen from an oral history delivered unto
      > > Moses, but alas, the meaning escaped his
      > understanding
      > > and he failed miserably in the interpretation or
      > that
      > > of his successors.
      > >
      > > Feel fre to dicuss tehse matters with me, for i
      > seek
      > > only the truth of things.
      > >
      > > Steve O'Leary
      > >
      > > --- Richard J Saley <saley@...> wrote:
      > > > Dear James Miller,
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for your lengthy and informative response
      > to
      > > > my query about the
      > > > textual characteristics of the LXX of the
      > Orthodox
      > > > Church. In answer to
      > > > your question, I was assuming--incorrectly as I
      > am
      > > > finding out--that the
      > > > LXX of the Orthodox Chruch is a monolithic whole
      > and
      > > > that that presumed
      > > > standard text was the basis for the Orthodox
      > Study
      > > > Bible Old Testament
      > > > Project described in www.lxx.org. Do I
      > understand
      > > > you correctly that that
      > > > translation project is based on Rhalfs?
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > > Dick Saley
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > At 12:09 PM 10/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
      > > > >Dr. Saley:
      > > > >
      > > > >Let me first state, in answer to your inquiry,
      > that
      > > > I do not know of any
      > > > >study of the textual characteristics of the LXX
      > > > version used by the
      > > > >Orthodox Church. If there were such a study, I
      > > > would love to read it. If
      > > > >someone from the list can point to one, please
      > do.
      > > > >
      > > > >In lieu of a more positive answer to your
      > question,
      > > > let me ask some further
      > > > >clarification on your request. At the same time
      > I
      > > > will point to a few
      > > > >further considerations. Perhaps this will
      > generate
      > > > a dialogue that could
      > > > >help inform on this and related matters.
      > > > >
      > > > >I want to first ask what you have in mind when
      > you
      > > > mention the "LXX version
      > > > >of the Orthodox Church"? You could have a
      > certain
      > > > historical period in
      > > > >mind; or perhaps you are speaking of
      > contemporary
      > > > times? Additionally, when
      > > > >you mention "LXX version" do you perhaps have
      > in
      > > > mind a general conception
      > > > >of a book corresponding to modern Bibles, or at
      > > > least to the OT portion of
      > > > >modern Bibles?
      > > > >
      > > > >There are currently efforts afoot in certain
      > > > Orthodox circles (in America,
      > > > >so far as I know) to translate an edition of
      > the
      > > > LXX into English, for
      > > > >example. This group is using Rahlfs' edition, a
      > > > text which would contain
      > > > >all the textual characteristics you mentioned,
      > > > since it constitutes a
      > > > >critical--though provisional--text upon which
      > > > subsequent attempts (the
      > > > >Gottingen Unternehmen) to reconstitute the OG
      > could
      > > > be based. For obvious
      > > > >reasons I don't think one could meaningfully
      > speak
      > > > of the Rahlfs edition as
      > > > >an LXX version used historically by the
      > Orthodox
      > > > Church--it was only first
      > > > >published in the 1930's, after all. In the
      > modern
      > > > Greek Church, I doubt
      > > > >whether the OT as a book to itself--whether or
      > not
      > > > it be one half of a
      > > > >larger work containing the NT such as would
      > > > correspond with what moderns
      > > > >think of as the Bible--really exists. Instead,
      > what
      > > > there is of the OT
      > > > >would be portions from various biblical books,
      > > > typically incorporated into
      > > > >other, liturgical books (e.g. the menaion or
      > > > triodion) in the context of
      > > > >the particular service (e.g., vespers) at which
      > > > they would be read. I'm
      > > > >more familiar with contemporary Russian
      > liturgical
      > > > practice than with
      > > > >Greek, so if anyone has corrections or
      > > > qualifications of what I have said
      > > > >about scripture use in the Greek Church, please
      > > > offer them. I give Greek
      > > > >practice as a paradigm because Russian
      > practice,
      > > > involving translation of
      > > > >the texts in question, presenta a more complex
      > > > picture.
      > > > >
      > > > >This leads into the historical dimension of
      > your
      > > > question--if there is one.
      > > > >What would have been known from our Bible to
      > the
      > > > majority of people in past
      > > > >ages (pre-printing press times) would have been
      > > > precisely those portions
      > > > >which were read in public worship services.
      > These
      > > > actually comprised a very
      > > > >limited part of our present-day OT--maybe
      > 1/10th.
      > > > Fuller collections
      > > > >approaching the scope of our modern OT's would
      > have
      > > > been a real rarity. The
      > > > >portions of the OT which were read in public
      > > > worship were collected into a
      > > > >single volume starting in about the 9th century
      > > > (the "Prophetologion"). If
      > > > >one uses "Bible" in the sense of a collection
      > of
      > > > biblical writings widely
      > > > >known and read (or at least heard), then this
      > > > collection could be called
      > > > >the "Bible" of the Orthodox Church of those
      > times
      > > > (9th - 16th centuries).
      > > > >I've done some study of it, and it too seems to
      > be
      > > > an eclectic text, not
      > > > >strictly related to any of the text types you
      > > > mentioned--though the
      > > > >Lucianic would probably predominate. Also, this
      > is
      > > > likely the OT text whose
      > > > >portions were later (with the advent of the
      > > > printing press) incorporated
      > > > >into the liturgical books I mentioned above.
      > > > >
      > > > >I'm sorry I can't give a clearer answer: maybe
      > > > someone else can say
      > > > >something more to the point. But I hope this
      > helps.
      > > > If I have misunderstood
      > > > >your questions, please feel free to point this
      > out
      > > > and I will try and
      > > > >respond accordingly.
      > > > >
      > > > >Sincerely, James Miller
      > > > >
      > > > >At 04:19 PM 9/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
      > > > >>Does anyone know of a study of the textual
      > > > characteristics (e.g., OG,
      > > > >>kaige, Lucianic, hexaplaric, etc.) of the
      > version
      > > > of the LXX used by the
      > > > >>Orthodox Church?
      > > > >>
      > > > >>Any information would be much appreciated.
      > > > >>
      > > > >>Thanks,
      > > > >>Dick Saley
      > > > >>
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > ---
      > > > >>| Richard J. Saley, Ph.D. Tel:
      > 617-495-4239
      > > > |
      > > > >>| The Semitic Museum Fax:
      > 617-496-8904
      > > > |
      > > > >>| Harvard University
      > > > saley@... |
      > > > >>| Six Divinity Avenue
      > > > |
      > > > >>| Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
      > > > |
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > ---
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > ---
      > > > | Richard J. Saley, Ph.D. Tel:
      > 617-495-4239
      > > > |
      > > > | The Semitic Museum Fax: 617-496-8904
      > > > |
      > > > | Harvard University
      > > > saley@... |
      > > > | Six Divinity Avenue
      > > > |
      > > > | Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
      > > > |
      > > >
      > >
      >
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > ---
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      > > >
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      > >
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