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41[lxx] Re: LXX of the Orthodox Church

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  • Roger L.. Kimmel
    Oct 4, 1999
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      I believe this is enough. Matters of faith and personal opinion do not
      belong in these discussions, properly scholarly in content. I suggest some
      remedial English for this individual.

      Roger L. Kimmel, M.D.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: welovegod <sol_seeker@...>
      To: <lxx@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 9:11 PM
      Subject: [lxx] Re: LXX of the Orthodox Church


      > My expectations is this. The Greek Septuagint is
      > called LXX, L for the name of the Lord(50), and XX the
      > roman numerals for ecah hand, five points describe it:
      > 4 fingers and a thumb. SO LXX translated literately
      > means Lord's hands, colloquily described in Exodus
      > 30'2 as written with finger of G-d.
      > If we believe the scriptures(i expect that is why
      > most of us are here today), then two things are known:
      >
      > (1) The tablets/books given by the Lord to
      > Moses(Moshe) are lost. Are they in possession of some
      > church body, forgotten or concealed?
      >
      > (2) The Septuagint historically was written down in
      > ~250 BC by the Greeks with asitance from the king of
      > ISrael or their preistly leadership (likely the same)
      >
      > In any case, these artifacts might have be held
      > through the ages.. I suspect them or at least on eof
      > them to be the earliest/oldest transciption, and to be
      > in possession of the old Greek Orthodox church, which
      > moved to Serbia. That is my statement of my concern.
      > Christian Churches there date to the earliest period
      > of our known world of that era.
      >
      > ALso is the Dead Sea Scrolls, at essenes, whihc
      > translated properly mean essence, the ssence of our
      > existence is what the Lord God is, isn't it?
      >
      > I aintain a belief that the first two books weer
      > written doen from an oral history delivered unto
      > Moses, but alas, the meaning escaped his understanding
      > and he failed miserably in the interpretation or that
      > of his successors.
      >
      > Feel fre to dicuss tehse matters with me, for i seek
      > only the truth of things.
      >
      > Steve O'Leary
      >
      > --- Richard J Saley <saley@...> wrote:
      > > Dear James Miller,
      > >
      > > Thanks for your lengthy and informative response to
      > > my query about the
      > > textual characteristics of the LXX of the Orthodox
      > > Church. In answer to
      > > your question, I was assuming--incorrectly as I am
      > > finding out--that the
      > > LXX of the Orthodox Chruch is a monolithic whole and
      > > that that presumed
      > > standard text was the basis for the Orthodox Study
      > > Bible Old Testament
      > > Project described in www.lxx.org. Do I understand
      > > you correctly that that
      > > translation project is based on Rhalfs?
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > > Dick Saley
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 12:09 PM 10/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
      > > >Dr. Saley:
      > > >
      > > >Let me first state, in answer to your inquiry, that
      > > I do not know of any
      > > >study of the textual characteristics of the LXX
      > > version used by the
      > > >Orthodox Church. If there were such a study, I
      > > would love to read it. If
      > > >someone from the list can point to one, please do.
      > > >
      > > >In lieu of a more positive answer to your question,
      > > let me ask some further
      > > >clarification on your request. At the same time I
      > > will point to a few
      > > >further considerations. Perhaps this will generate
      > > a dialogue that could
      > > >help inform on this and related matters.
      > > >
      > > >I want to first ask what you have in mind when you
      > > mention the "LXX version
      > > >of the Orthodox Church"? You could have a certain
      > > historical period in
      > > >mind; or perhaps you are speaking of contemporary
      > > times? Additionally, when
      > > >you mention "LXX version" do you perhaps have in
      > > mind a general conception
      > > >of a book corresponding to modern Bibles, or at
      > > least to the OT portion of
      > > >modern Bibles?
      > > >
      > > >There are currently efforts afoot in certain
      > > Orthodox circles (in America,
      > > >so far as I know) to translate an edition of the
      > > LXX into English, for
      > > >example. This group is using Rahlfs' edition, a
      > > text which would contain
      > > >all the textual characteristics you mentioned,
      > > since it constitutes a
      > > >critical--though provisional--text upon which
      > > subsequent attempts (the
      > > >Gottingen Unternehmen) to reconstitute the OG could
      > > be based. For obvious
      > > >reasons I don't think one could meaningfully speak
      > > of the Rahlfs edition as
      > > >an LXX version used historically by the Orthodox
      > > Church--it was only first
      > > >published in the 1930's, after all. In the modern
      > > Greek Church, I doubt
      > > >whether the OT as a book to itself--whether or not
      > > it be one half of a
      > > >larger work containing the NT such as would
      > > correspond with what moderns
      > > >think of as the Bible--really exists. Instead, what
      > > there is of the OT
      > > >would be portions from various biblical books,
      > > typically incorporated into
      > > >other, liturgical books (e.g. the menaion or
      > > triodion) in the context of
      > > >the particular service (e.g., vespers) at which
      > > they would be read. I'm
      > > >more familiar with contemporary Russian liturgical
      > > practice than with
      > > >Greek, so if anyone has corrections or
      > > qualifications of what I have said
      > > >about scripture use in the Greek Church, please
      > > offer them. I give Greek
      > > >practice as a paradigm because Russian practice,
      > > involving translation of
      > > >the texts in question, presenta a more complex
      > > picture.
      > > >
      > > >This leads into the historical dimension of your
      > > question--if there is one.
      > > >What would have been known from our Bible to the
      > > majority of people in past
      > > >ages (pre-printing press times) would have been
      > > precisely those portions
      > > >which were read in public worship services. These
      > > actually comprised a very
      > > >limited part of our present-day OT--maybe 1/10th.
      > > Fuller collections
      > > >approaching the scope of our modern OT's would have
      > > been a real rarity. The
      > > >portions of the OT which were read in public
      > > worship were collected into a
      > > >single volume starting in about the 9th century
      > > (the "Prophetologion"). If
      > > >one uses "Bible" in the sense of a collection of
      > > biblical writings widely
      > > >known and read (or at least heard), then this
      > > collection could be called
      > > >the "Bible" of the Orthodox Church of those times
      > > (9th - 16th centuries).
      > > >I've done some study of it, and it too seems to be
      > > an eclectic text, not
      > > >strictly related to any of the text types you
      > > mentioned--though the
      > > >Lucianic would probably predominate. Also, this is
      > > likely the OT text whose
      > > >portions were later (with the advent of the
      > > printing press) incorporated
      > > >into the liturgical books I mentioned above.
      > > >
      > > >I'm sorry I can't give a clearer answer: maybe
      > > someone else can say
      > > >something more to the point. But I hope this helps.
      > > If I have misunderstood
      > > >your questions, please feel free to point this out
      > > and I will try and
      > > >respond accordingly.
      > > >
      > > >Sincerely, James Miller
      > > >
      > > >At 04:19 PM 9/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
      > > >>Does anyone know of a study of the textual
      > > characteristics (e.g., OG,
      > > >>kaige, Lucianic, hexaplaric, etc.) of the version
      > > of the LXX used by the
      > > >>Orthodox Church?
      > > >>
      > > >>Any information would be much appreciated.
      > > >>
      > > >>Thanks,
      > > >>Dick Saley
      > > >>
      > >
      >
      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > ---
      > > >>| Richard J. Saley, Ph.D. Tel: 617-495-4239
      > > |
      > > >>| The Semitic Museum Fax: 617-496-8904
      > > |
      > > >>| Harvard University
      > > saley@... |
      > > >>| Six Divinity Avenue
      > > |
      > > >>| Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
      > > |
      > >
      >
      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > ---
      > > >>
      > > >>
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      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      > > | Richard J. Saley, Ph.D. Tel: 617-495-4239
      > > |
      > > | The Semitic Museum Fax: 617-496-8904
      > > |
      > > | Harvard University
      > > saley@... |
      > > | Six Divinity Avenue
      > > |
      > > | Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
      > > |
      > >
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