3809RE: [LXX] Did Jesus use the Septuagint?
- Aug 5, 2012Hi LXX'ers!
Various thoughts and comments regarding recent posts: "A)" is a helper in certain places below to know when I begin commenting.
1) Messiah used the Septuagint? A) No Scriptural evidence.
2) Messiah spoke Aramaic? A) No Scriptural evidence.
3) Regarding: "Some [Mt. thru Jn.] texts have [Messiah] seemingly quoting from the LXX." A) Yeah, and the KJV has at Acts 12:4 the abominable term "easter" instead of the correct term Pesach. Men can alter the Word in any way they want to. They do it today and they did it back then(Jer. 8:8). They do it at their own peril(Dt. 4:2, Prov. 30:6), but they still do it. One of the greatest fallacies going is that the earliest known Mt. thru Rev. Greek mss. represent the exact Words of Messiah or even the exact Words penned by the original authors. Those who copied and/or translated the earliest Greek manuscripts more than likely had access to Septuagint manuscripts for referencing purposes when translating OT quotes. At least, noting Septuagint-derived quotes in the earliest Greek NT manuscripts does not prove Messiah quoted from there.
I liked fellow heretic Joe Dan Boyd's postulate that Messiah actually used, spoke from, and taught from the Scriptures in their originally-breathed, true autograph form. He could actually do that today in many synagogues. Of course, I will take into account that my Greek Messiah with the Greek/Norman name would be so rebellious as to ignore what the Scriptures say about Elohim preserving His Words from this generation forever(Ps. 12:6-7). I'm sure Messiah is about Hellenizing everything considering that He is given the throne of His father D'ud/David and reigns over the house of Ya'akob forever(Lk. 1:31-33).
True Yisrael has a Greek King Who leads His people to a Greek legitimacy for His Father's Word and is OK with bringing His Father's true name(yod-hey-uau-hey) to shoah(ruin, destruction, void, naught) counter to the 3rd Command and supports blotting it out with words from the goyim/gentiles like kurios, lord, god, or any of the baals! Right? Messiah is all about encouraging us to just "coexist" and accept full translations into Greek or English or whatever and just forget Hs Father's name(Jer. 23:26-27, Jn. 17:6) and many other key facts.
4) Even if you could prove that the LXX was "in wide usage among 'the Jews'"..."also in Yerushalayim"...that wouldn't prove that Messiah had anything to do with it(more probably the contrary considering how taken He was with the popular opinion around those parts and in those days and among the Yehudim) nor that that was what was read in the hekal. I'm still of the camp that they'd sooner be cleaning pig's blood out of the Set-apart Place than have a Greek translation of the Torah, Nebiim, and Ketubim being read from there. Check the last sentence of Acts 21:28.
5) Dr. Penner makes a great point that "support for Messiah's speaking of Greek is flimsy." I would add that I know of not one reference in Gen. thru Rev. to His speaking of Greek. Of all the places He might have spoken Greek(or even Aramaic) might have been to Sha'ul/Paul on his way to Dammeseq(Acts 26:14-15), but it says He spoke in Hebrais. Now I'm just gonna play dumb here...Hebrais/Ebrais means Hebrew and Hebraisti/Ebraisti means "in Hebrew" and Hebrais in its Greek form is a transliteration of Ibrit(which of course is found in the OT), until proven otherwise. And call me crazy but I posit that Aramit(word used in the OT) and Syristi(a word used by Josephus) are more likely to be synonymous with each other than they are with anything else. You make a big assumption if you claim that Paul made his defense before the people of Yerushalayim not in Ibrit but rather in Syristi or in Aramais/Aramaisti or something(Acts 21:40 to 21:2). Also note in Acts 26:14-15 Messiah spoke His name in Hebrais. I'll follow His example on that one, for the only name given among men by which we need to be saved.
6) Robert Kraft says "the playing field was quite different from what is often assumed." I just wrote that because I thought it was worth repeating.
7) Regarding CL's comments I would add that there is no evidence that Mt., Mk., Lk., or Jn. used Greek translations extensively or at all, nor that they mimicked Messiah in this activity. Is it not more reasonable to expect that Messiah's use of the Scriptures mimics(rather, is identical to) His Teacher's: YHUH Elohim, the qadosh One of Yisrael? There's no evidence that Messiah used any part of the Septuagint: there's not even a suggestion in the Word that He did such a thing. As if the "Word come in the flesh" had to consult Greek scroll bearers on anything.
8) Regarding "I wonder what [YHUSh(U)A] read from in the account of Lk. 4:16-22." A) No doubt in that congregation in little Natsarit of Galil, the Son of D'ud did not read to the Yisralits from Greek scrolls(even using kurios instead of His Father's true name)! If He blotted out the name He came in(Jn. 5:43), wouldn't you be a little suspicious? "Hoshia-na! Baruk haba b'shem YHUH(Ps. 118:26, Mk. 11:9)! Blessed is the coming Reign of our father D'ud--in the name of YHUH(Mk. 11:10, Lk. 1:32-33)! Has D'ud then gone Greek? May it never be!
9) 2%...that's about how much KJV I have in my library. I'd better get rid of it though because when I die they'll claim I made extensive use of it!
Blessings all! Yehonatan Note: For the Scriptural references above I used the most identifiable names of the Books of Scripture for ease of recognition, including OT and NT which are merely traditional.
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