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3542RE: [lxx] Re: Amen

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  • andrew fincke
    Dec 13, 2010
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      Dear Price,
      You're really getting into this!
      "In Isa. 25:1 the word omen ("truth") is used, but it is a hapax (i.e., a word that only occurs once)." is incorrect. We also have "work of the hands of an omen (craftsman)" at Song of Solomon 7:2, describing the calves of the writer's girlfriend. Since things work in 3's in the Bible, that makes the two omen's in Isa 65:16 mean "craftsman": "He blesses himself in (the name of) a God of a craftsman ... He oathes in (the name of ) a God of a craftsman." That fits with the beginning of the verse: "Whoever blesses himself in (the trees of the) land." The image is of a pagan farmer taking great pains to cultivate a grove of trees, which are then cut down and turned into idols. See Isa 44:13-15. The (tall) girlfriend in Song of Solomon 7:2 must have had legs that reminded the author of trees. At Isaiah 25:1 these legs/trees were feminized from עצים "trees" to עצות, which the Septuagint translates "advice" (βουλη). The Isaiah scroll (1QIsa-a) has אצית "I ignite", which verifies 44:15: "They (the trees) are for burning; he warms himself and stokes the fire; he bakes bread and makes an idol". The speaker at the end of 25:1: אצית מרחוק אמונה אמן "I ignite from a distance the handiwork of a craftsman" is apparently the Lord, destroying the products of abuse of His creation.
      For a guy who doesn't know Hebrew, you're pretty smart!
      Andrew Fincke


      To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
      From: toujoursprest@...
      Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 04:04:18 +0000
      Subject: [lxx] Re: Amen






      Andrew,
      Could there be a different Semitic root for "amen" (aleph-meem-nun) when it is used to mean "the Amen" , for Jehovah and Christ?
      In Is. 65:16 the Hebrew text twice speaks of "the God of (the) Amen." Some thought this difficult to translate and chose to correct the text to "the God of truth." The proposed emendation only concerns the vowels which (in Hebrew) do not belong to the original text. Instead of "ameen"the reading "omen" is suggested. In Isa. 25:1 the word omen ("truth") is used, but it is a hapax (i.e., a word that only occurs once). In the Septuagint and Aquila both read ameen instead of omen at Isa. 25:1. The texts from Isaiah seem to be echoed in Rev.3:14 where "the Amen" is used as a title for Jesus. Perhaps you are pointing to something like this?

      Price

      --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Good point, David!
      > And what does the Septuagint (this is a Septuagint list) say at those 4 places?
      > γένοιτο γένοιτο "So be it! So be it!" I.e. יִהְיֶה יִהְיֶה. Now that's just a polite way of saying "Jehovah, Jehovah" (יהוה יהוה) without descecrating the Lord's name. What's happened is that the Septuagint translator mistook "Amen" (אמן) for "So be it!/ therefore" (אכן) by merging the vertical that forms final nun with the open space on the left side of the kaf. Cf. the kaf and mem in אכן משפטי in the facsimile of 1QIsa-a at Isa. 30:4. אכן is a rare word that occurs only in Isaiah, and there only four times, one of which is 53:4, where it serves as epithet for Our Savior at Isa 53:4: "He lifted up our sins". There the Septuagint has "He" (οá½â€"τος) for אכן הוא "Therefore He". So at Psalms 106(105):48, when "All the people said, 'Amen! Amen!" (Hebrew: "Amen! Praise the Lord!") they were just reciting the divine epithet. For the matter of the repetive אמן אמן in the Psalms verses cf. Isa 40:7-8, where אכן caused a whole verse to be duplicated. In IQIsa-a all the extra material is between the lines and into the margin with אכן ×â€"ציר העם "Therefore the people is grass" spelled הכן ×â€"ציר העם, confusing אכן with הכן and thus הקן "the nest", which is composed of intertwined grass. I know this is alot of Hebrew for someone unversed in the language, so if you've got some questions feel free to ask.
      > Andrew Fincke
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
      > From: kpenner@...
      > Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 09:10:09 -0400
      > Subject: RE: [lxx] Amen
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In all the cases mentioned below, the Hebrew word is AMEN.
      >
      > Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
      > Assistant Professor, Religious Studies
      > St. Francis Xavier University
      > Antigonish, NS
      > Canada
      >
      > (902)867-2265
      > kpenner@...
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David James
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:47 PM
      > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [lxx] Amen
      >
      > Price:
      >
      > You don't make any reference to the Psalms, and I don't know Hebrew.
      > However, if, as you assert, "Amen" is never used in the OT to conclude a
      > prayer, what is the Hebrew word used in the concluding verses of Psalms 40,
      > 71, 88 and 105 (LXX numbering)?
      >
      > David James
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





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