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Re: Scratch on mirror--how significant?

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  • njsgps
    Hi Mark, I have had a small (2mm x 2mm) speck of crud on my primary ever since DHL played football with my scope 3 years ago. I cannot say that I have ever
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 1, 2007
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      Hi Mark,

      I have had a small (2mm x 2mm) speck of crud on my primary ever since
      DHL played football with my scope 3 years ago.

      I cannot say that I have ever noticed an effect attributable to this
      smudge (other than a smouldering hatred for DHL and the twit that
      shipped the scope to me).

      Certainly, minor smudges on the primary are very little cause for
      concern - after all, remember that you have a HUGE 'smudge' right in
      the centre of your corrector plate - and not many people complain
      about that !!!

      If the rest of the scope interests you, and if the price is right,
      then it might be worthwhile.

      Cheers,
      Niall Saunders
      Clinterty Observatories (Dedicated to observing low cloud, fog and
      heavy rainfall)
      Aberdeen SCOTLAND
      --- In lx90@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jones" <astronomy@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'm curious as much as anything. There is an LX90 on Astromart with
      a
      > small scratch on the mirror. How much, do you suppose, would this
      > affect the image?
      >
      > http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=507647
      >
      > Mark J
      >
    • Alvaro Gaviria
      Hello All, I like to comment that the Meade standard Wedge work perfect at low latitudes like mine 06 degrees North. Only a minor modification to the rod bar
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 1, 2007
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        Hello All,

        I like to comment that the Meade standard Wedge work perfect at low
        latitudes like mine
        06 degrees North.

        Only a minor modification to the rod bar with a saw.

        Now in Polar mode my tracking performance is much better

        Recommended

        Thanks
        ---------------------------------------
        Alvaro Gavira Cano
        N 06° 06' 41.40" W 75° 29' 42.40"



        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • AstronomyW4WMM@aol.com
        Alvaro, What did you cut with the saw? In a message dated 01-Jul-07 8:24:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, algaviri@orbitel.net.co writes: I like to comment that
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 1, 2007
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          Alvaro,

          What did you cut with the saw?

          In a message dated 01-Jul-07 8:24:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
          algaviri@... writes:

          I like to comment that the Meade standard Wedge work perfect at low
          latitudes like mine
          06 degrees North.

          Only a minor modification to the rod bar with a saw.





          ====================
          Looking Up,
          Alan
          30.69° N 88.24° W



          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alvaro Gaviria
          I make two notches 3mm deep for 6 mm at each end of the rod bar to let the tilt plate go dawn enough. The rod bar is 30 mm outside diameter, so think that 3 mm
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 1, 2007
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            I make two notches 3mm deep for 6 mm at each end of the rod bar
            to let the tilt plate go dawn enough.

            The rod bar is 30 mm outside diameter, so think that 3 mm is not much

            Alvaro




            AstronomyW4WMM@... escribió:
            >
            >
            > Alvaro,
            >
            > What did you cut with the saw?
            >
            > In a message dated 01-Jul-07 8:24:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
            > algaviri@... writes:
            >
            > I like to comment that the Meade standard Wedge work perfect at low
            > latitudes like mine
            > 06 degrees North.
            >
            > Only a minor modification to the rod bar with a saw.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ====================
            > Looking Up,
            > Alan
            > 30.69° N 88.24° W
            >
            >
            >
            > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • arthurok
            some mirrors have defects even when deklivered from the factory meade says in their manuals to not go by flashlight inspectios of the scopes
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 1, 2007
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              some mirrors have defects even when deklivered from the factory
              meade says in their manuals to not go by flashlight inspectios of the scopes mirrors
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: njsgps
              To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:38 AM
              Subject: [lx90] Re: Scratch on mirror--how significant?


              Hi Mark,

              I have had a small (2mm x 2mm) speck of crud on my primary ever since
              DHL played football with my scope 3 years ago.

              I cannot say that I have ever noticed an effect attributable to this
              smudge (other than a smouldering hatred for DHL and the twit that
              shipped the scope to me).

              Certainly, minor smudges on the primary are very little cause for
              concern - after all, remember that you have a HUGE 'smudge' right in
              the centre of your corrector plate - and not many people complain
              about that !!!

              If the rest of the scope interests you, and if the price is right,
              then it might be worthwhile.

              Cheers,
              Niall Saunders
              Clinterty Observatories (Dedicated to observing low cloud, fog and
              heavy rainfall)
              Aberdeen SCOTLAND
              --- In lx90@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Jones" <astronomy@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm curious as much as anything. There is an LX90 on Astromart with
              a
              > small scratch on the mirror. How much, do you suppose, would this
              > affect the image?
              >
              > http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=507647
              >
              > Mark J
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • AstronomyW4WMM@aol.com
              Very good. I guess necessity is the mother of invention. In a message dated 01-Jul-07 8:51:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, algaviri@orbitel.net.co writes: I
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 2, 2007
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                Very good.

                I guess necessity is the mother of invention.

                In a message dated 01-Jul-07 8:51:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
                algaviri@... writes:

                I make two notches 3mm deep for 6 mm at each end of the rod bar
                to let the tilt plate go dawn enough.

                The rod bar is 30 mm outside diameter, so think that 3 mm is not much

                Alvaro




                ====================
                Looking Up,
                Alan
                30.69° N 88.24° W



                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Alvaro Gaviria
                Hello all, Please can someone explain how envisage work with two cameras attached ? Each camera has his own exposure time ? The guide camera continuously
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                  Hello all,

                  Please can someone explain how envisage work with two cameras attached ?

                  Each camera has his own exposure time ?
                  The guide camera continuously update telescope position ?



                  I have the DSI color II and plan to use as a guide camera on the
                  8" LX90, and plan to buy a 80mm piggyback and another DSI pro II
                  as a image camera.


                  Thanks in advance
                  Alvaro






                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dolfi
                  Each camera can be controlled independently. You select which camera will guide the scope. There is a selection box on the screen for that. The guiding
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                    Each camera can be controlled independently.

                    You select which camera will guide the scope. There is a selection box on
                    the screen for that.

                    The guiding commands are issued after the exposure time has counted down to
                    "0" for the guide camera.

                    You will need enough computer ports or get a USB HUB to run the two cameras
                    and connect to the 497 handbox. For Envisage software, the guide commands
                    are issued to the 497 handbox port.

                    Hope this helps.


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: lx90@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lx90@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alvaro
                    Gaviria
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:28 PM
                    To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras

                    Hello all,

                    Please can someone explain how envisage work with two cameras attached ?

                    Each camera has his own exposure time ?
                    The guide camera continuously update telescope position ?



                    I have the DSI color II and plan to use as a guide camera on the 8" LX90,
                    and plan to buy a 80mm piggyback and another DSI pro II as a image camera.


                    Thanks in advance
                    Alvaro






                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Alvaro Gaviria
                    Hollo Dolfi Thanks for the answer So I can use for example 60 minutes for IMAGE CAMERA and 1 second for the GUIDE camera ? Thanks again Alvaro ... [Non-text
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                      Hollo Dolfi

                      Thanks for the answer

                      So I can use for example 60 minutes for IMAGE CAMERA
                      and 1 second for the GUIDE camera ?

                      Thanks again

                      Alvaro





                      dolfi escribió:
                      > Each camera can be controlled independently.
                      >
                      > You select which camera will guide the scope. There is a selection box on
                      > the screen for that.
                      >
                      > The guiding commands are issued after the exposure time has counted down to
                      > "0" for the guide camera.
                      >
                      > You will need enough computer ports or get a USB HUB to run the two cameras
                      > and connect to the 497 handbox. For Envisage software, the guide commands
                      > are issued to the 497 handbox port.
                      >
                      > Hope this helps.
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: lx90@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lx90@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alvaro
                      > Gaviria
                      > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:28 PM
                      > To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras
                      >
                      > Hello all,
                      >
                      > Please can someone explain how envisage work with two cameras attached ?
                      >
                      > Each camera has his own exposure time ?
                      > The guide camera continuously update telescope position ?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have the DSI color II and plan to use as a guide camera on the 8" LX90,
                      > and plan to buy a 80mm piggyback and another DSI pro II as a image camera.
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks in advance
                      > Alvaro
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • njsgps
                      ... Hi Alvaro, In theory, yes. When you have two cameras connected to one PC (using TWO USB 2.0 ports), and you have that PC connected (via an RS232 Serial
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                        --- In lx90@yahoogroups.com, Alvaro Gaviria <algaviri@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hollo Dolfi
                        >
                        > Thanks for the answer
                        >
                        > So I can use for example 60 minutes for IMAGE CAMERA
                        > and 1 second for the GUIDE camera ?
                        >
                        > Thanks again
                        >
                        > Alvaro
                        >


                        Hi Alvaro,

                        In theory, yes.

                        When you have two cameras connected to one PC (using TWO USB 2.0
                        ports), and you have that PC connected (via an RS232 Serial Port, or
                        an emulated USB to RS232 converter, using a THIRD USB port), then
                        Envisage will allow you to specify which camera will be used for
                        IMAGING and which camera will be used for GUIDING.

                        Ideally, you will use the GUIDE camera at the SHORTEST possible
                        exposures that will allow you to see an appropriate guide star. Let
                        us use your example of one second exposures - that would allow
                        Envisage to issue a corrective guide command once every second, at
                        the end of your guide camera exposure. This command is issued via
                        the RS232 serial port, to the auxilliary connector at the bottom of
                        the Autostar Handbox (497) controller - NOWHERE ELSE.

                        In the meantime, your imaging camera can be used to obtain images
                        with MUCH LONGER exposures. However, with the quality of the LX90
                        mount mechanics, I would say that a sixty minute exposure would be
                        HIGHLY UNLIKELY. In reality, I have never heard of anyone using a
                        DSI camera at that length of exposure. However, you could achieve
                        pretty good results, I expect, at around 5 minutes.

                        That said, 5 minutes is about 5 times longer than you could hope to
                        achieve with an UN-GUIDED setup. Certainly my 8" LX90 scope, pier-
                        mounted in an observatory, is just not capable of consistent good
                        tracking at much more than 1 minute.

                        And that statement applies even AFTER I have taken (a lot of) time
                        to ensure the best possible polar alignment, and the best possible
                        PEC training. The only thing I have left to try is to balance the
                        system (in 3-D).

                        Only then will I add my MoonFish ED APO as a guide scope and see if
                        I can push up my exposure times.

                        Of course, longer exposures carry with them the penalty
                        of 'something happening' during the exposure period. A cosmic ray
                        hit, a meteor, a satellite pass, a jet aircraft, a gust of wind, a
                        nudge to the pier, etc. All of these can (and do) happen - but you
                        won't know about them until the end of the exposure. And, by then,
                        it's too late - you have just wasted that 'five minutes'.
                        Conversely - if you are only running 1 minute exposures (for
                        example), the damaged frame will only affect 20% of the same period
                        of time. Far less annoying !!

                        The other big disadvantage of longer exposures is that 'skyglow'
                        will start to take effect. I know that your viewing location may
                        allow you to overcome this problem - but it will not allways be so.

                        Certainly - so far - I have avoided the problems with 'guiding'.
                        Mostly because I have not yet managed to eliminate all the problems
                        associated with 'tracking'. And, if you have not eliminated ALL the
                        problems that tracking entails, you are unlikely to be successful
                        when adding the complications that 'guiding' brings along.

                        But - I am looking forward to the challenge this winter, when dark
                        (er) skies return.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Cheers,
                        Niall Saunders
                        Clinterty Observatories
                        Aberdeen, SCOTLAND
                      • Alvaro Gaviria
                        Hello Niall, I really exaggerate with 60 min exposure I will try 5 or less minutes Many thanks and congratulations, is the best description that I ever read.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                          Hello Niall,


                          I really exaggerate with 60 min exposure
                          I will try 5 or less minutes

                          Many thanks and congratulations, is the best description
                          that I ever read.

                          ---------------------------------------
                          Alvaro Gavira Cano
                          N 06° 06' 41.40" W 75° 29' 42.40"






                          > --- In lx90@yahoogroups.com, Alvaro Gaviria <algaviri@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Hollo Dolfi
                          >>
                          >> Thanks for the answer
                          >>
                          >> So I can use for example 60 minutes for IMAGE CAMERA
                          >> and 1 second for the GUIDE camera ?
                          >>
                          >> Thanks again
                          >>
                          >> Alvaro
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Alvaro,
                          >
                          > In theory, yes.
                          >
                          > When you have two cameras connected to one PC (using TWO USB 2.0
                          > ports), and you have that PC connected (via an RS232 Serial Port, or
                          > an emulated USB to RS232 converter, using a THIRD USB port), then
                          > Envisage will allow you to specify which camera will be used for
                          > IMAGING and which camera will be used for GUIDING.
                          >
                          > Ideally, you will use the GUIDE camera at the SHORTEST possible
                          > exposures that will allow you to see an appropriate guide star. Let
                          > us use your example of one second exposures - that would allow
                          > Envisage to issue a corrective guide command once every second, at
                          > the end of your guide camera exposure. This command is issued via
                          > the RS232 serial port, to the auxilliary connector at the bottom of
                          > the Autostar Handbox (497) controller - NOWHERE ELSE.
                          >
                          > In the meantime, your imaging camera can be used to obtain images
                          > with MUCH LONGER exposures. However, with the quality of the LX90
                          > mount mechanics, I would say that a sixty minute exposure would be
                          > HIGHLY UNLIKELY. In reality, I have never heard of anyone using a
                          > DSI camera at that length of exposure. However, you could achieve
                          > pretty good results, I expect, at around 5 minutes.
                          >
                          > That said, 5 minutes is about 5 times longer than you could hope to
                          > achieve with an UN-GUIDED setup. Certainly my 8" LX90 scope, pier-
                          > mounted in an observatory, is just not capable of consistent good
                          > tracking at much more than 1 minute.
                          >
                          > And that statement applies even AFTER I have taken (a lot of) time
                          > to ensure the best possible polar alignment, and the best possible
                          > PEC training. The only thing I have left to try is to balance the
                          > system (in 3-D).
                          >
                          > Only then will I add my MoonFish ED APO as a guide scope and see if
                          > I can push up my exposure times.
                          >
                          > Of course, longer exposures carry with them the penalty
                          > of 'something happening' during the exposure period. A cosmic ray
                          > hit, a meteor, a satellite pass, a jet aircraft, a gust of wind, a
                          > nudge to the pier, etc. All of these can (and do) happen - but you
                          > won't know about them until the end of the exposure. And, by then,
                          > it's too late - you have just wasted that 'five minutes'.
                          > Conversely - if you are only running 1 minute exposures (for
                          > example), the damaged frame will only affect 20% of the same period
                          > of time. Far less annoying !!
                          >
                          > The other big disadvantage of longer exposures is that 'skyglow'
                          > will start to take effect. I know that your viewing location may
                          > allow you to overcome this problem - but it will not allways be so.
                          >
                          > Certainly - so far - I have avoided the problems with 'guiding'.
                          > Mostly because I have not yet managed to eliminate all the problems
                          > associated with 'tracking'. And, if you have not eliminated ALL the
                          > problems that tracking entails, you are unlikely to be successful
                          > when adding the complications that 'guiding' brings along.
                          >
                          > But - I am looking forward to the challenge this winter, when dark
                          > (er) skies return.
                          >
                          > Hope this helps.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Niall Saunders
                          > Clinterty Observatories
                          > Aberdeen, SCOTLAND
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Stephen Hamilton
                          Alvaro, Yup, I think you will find 5 minute exposures to be more then adequate for most non-narrowband imaging with a DSI Pro. The longest exposures I have
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                            Alvaro,



                            Yup, I think you will find 5 minute exposures to be more then adequate for most non-narrowband imaging with a DSI Pro. The longest exposures I have made so far with a DSI Pro II are 30 minute and those were really just experiments. Even most of my narrowband exposures these days are between 5 and 10 minutes with the occasional 20 minute exposures. I would make one comment on the guiding setup with respect to your exposure times and that is to use the shortest possible exposure time (as stated already) but take into account seeing as well. If the seeing is poor, then your guide star will dance around and give you erroneous readings sending just as erroneous commands to the scope. I have found that 2 seconds to 4 seconds is generally a pretty good exposure time and only go shorter when I absolutely need to for a dimmer star. This allows the seeing to average out a bit and for the software to make a better decision about guide commands.

                            Stephen P. Hamilton
                            http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com
                            King George Observatory
                            38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"

                            _____

                            From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:08 PM
                            To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [lx90] Re: Envisage and two cameras



                            Hello Niall,

                            I really exaggerate with 60 min exposure
                            I will try 5 or less minutes

                            Many thanks and congratulations, is the best description
                            that I ever read.

                            ---------------------------------------
                            Alvaro Gavira Cano
                            N 06° 06' 41.40" W 75° 29' 42.40"






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • njsgps
                            ... Alvaro, Thank-you for the compliment !! But, Stephen Hamilton s advice is far better than mine. Remember, he DOES ACTUALLY USE THE LX90 IN GUIDED MODE - I
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
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                              >
                              > Many thanks and congratulations, is the best description
                              > that I ever read.
                              >

                              Alvaro,

                              Thank-you for the compliment !! But, Stephen Hamilton's advice is
                              far better than mine. Remember, he DOES ACTUALLY USE THE LX90 IN
                              GUIDED MODE - I have not (yet).

                              A further comment that I had intended to make. This goes back to the
                              number of connections from your PC to the cameras and AutoStar. If
                              you are going to try and use ONE computer to read BOTH camera data
                              streams, AND to send the serial guide commands TO the AutoStar, then
                              it had better be a VERY POWERFUL one.

                              I use a 3.6GHz P4 Notebook PC, with 4Gb RAM, and running Windows XP
                              SP2 (Professional). WIth this set-up, I can get around 3 to 5 images
                              downloaded from the DSI, per SECOND (using USB 2.0 and a 5m USB 2.0
                              extension lead). I am also using the PC to power the DSI II Pro.
                              (This particular PC also seems to be able to comfortably provide the
                              full 500mA USB current on ALL of its USB ports, AT THE SAME TIME).

                              If you cannot manage this successfully, then I would strongly
                              recommend that you use a SECOND computer to manage the Guiding
                              control - i.e. one for imaging, and one for guiding - BOTH running
                              Envisage.

                              This also prevents Envisage itself having to manage both tasks
                              concurrently - and it gives you TWO screens to see what is happening.

                              Finally, I should have mentioned this in the first posting. Remember
                              I said that you had to be able to TRACK successfully before you
                              attemted to Guide? Well, this is what I should have added....

                              Let us assume that you are imaging a single star (Vega, for
                              example) - on screen (using whichever DSI camera you choose), but
                              where that camera is attached 'directly' to the viewport of the LX90
                              (main tube) OTA. In other words - no diagonals, no barlows, no focal
                              reducers.

                              Because this single star is 'bright' you will be able to reduce the
                              exposure times down to almost minimum (say, 0.0010 sec, for
                              example). And, if you have a nice powerful PC, with a good high-
                              speed USB 2.0 interface, you should see pictures updating several
                              times per second.

                              You should now try to centre the star in the middle of the field of
                              view - it helps to be running at a screen resolution of greater than
                              1024 x 768, and to have enlarged the Envisage window enough to see
                              the WHOLE of the 'live' image.

                              You should be able to 'control' the position of the star suing the
                              Autostar at SPEED=1. And I really must emphasize the word 'control'.
                              You should be able to decide EXACTLY where you want the star to be
                              on-screen, and you should be able to get it to go there just using
                              the AutoStar 'direction' keys. With NO overshoot, and NO rubber-
                              banding, and NO lag before movement. This requires that yiu have
                              VERY CAREFULLY performed the infamous Calibrate Motors and Train
                              Drives routines.

                              You now select the 'Telescope' tab on Envisage and, having already
                              roughly centred the star on the screen, you should draw a 'small'
                              box around it - depending on the physical size of your monitor
                              display, I would estimate at no more than 15 - 20mm square. The
                              crosshairs that appear should consistently mark the centre of the
                              star, and should nearly always be in the middle of the defined
                              tracking box.

                              If the cross-hairs do not seem to be hitting the 'centre' of the
                              star, then you may be experiencing poor seeing or inappropriate
                              contrast settings (which could be improved using the Envisage
                              Histogram slider controls).

                              If the cross-hairs ARE following the centre of the star, but the
                              cross-hairs (and the star) are not always in the middle of the
                              tracking box, then something is causing the position of the star to
                              be moving too quickly to be followed by Envisage.

                              If either of these conditions occurs, then you will be unlikely to
                              be able to Track, and will probably have no chance of being able to
                              Guide.

                              However, if things appear to be steady enough, you can now get
                              Envisage to 'Connect' to the Scope (using the RS232 coinnection to
                              the AutoStar. However, it may be worth mentioning here that I have
                              experienced no end of problems using the Meade NetScope software (to
                              allow multiple software programs to talk to the AutoStar
                              simultaneously). The problem is one of 'priority' - and the Guiding
                              commands do not seem to have absolute priority - and I feel that
                              they should.

                              So, in order to eliminate a possible cause of problems - especially
                              as you start your experiments - always connect 'direct' to your
                              appropriate COM port (and, as I have said so many times before, try
                              to avoid using USB to RS232 Serial 'emulators' - some work,
                              many 'sort of work', ALL are a definite source of problems when
                              trying to get 'real time' control of apparatus such as our
                              telescopes. This is another area where you can eliminate problems
                              before they arise).

                              Now that Envisage is 'connected' to the AutoStar (and you have to be
                              in Polar mode for this to work, either that or you have to be
                              running one of Dick Seymour's Patch Kits in your firmaware) you can
                              start the calibration of the guiding routines.

                              It should also be mentioned here that you should try to install your
                              DSI such that the USB lead is pointing to the LEFT as you look at
                              the rear of the OTA (remember, no diagonals, barlows or focal
                              reducers). And take the time to try and 'eyeball' the position of
                              the DSI - such that it is 'sitting square' with the axis movement of
                              your OTA. That way, East-West movement of the OTA should be observed
                              as E-W movement in Envisage - i.e. a 'horizontal movement' on the
                              screen. Don't worry if East and West are reversed, Envisage can sort
                              that out - in fact, it can even sort out a camera that is not
                              perfectly aligned E-W. It is just that, again, if you can eliminate
                              something, it won't be part of your possible final problem.

                              If there is a button saying "No Cal.", then click this - it should
                              change to "Will Cal.", and this is normally how Envisage starts up -
                              and is what you need at this stage. With the box drawn around the
                              star, and the star being tracked, and with Envisage talking to the
                              AutoStar, now is the time to click "Guide Here".

                              Because you have selected "Will Cal.", Envisage will send commands
                              to the AutoStar to establish how much movement occurs as it issues
                              Guiding Commands - what it is doing is 'calibrating' the guide
                              commands, so that it knows what needs to be issued to illicit a
                              required response from the OTA - to get a star to a specific pixel
                              position on the CCD, for example.

                              If successful, it will buil-in the error in rotation position of the
                              DSI with respect to the rear of the OTA. It will also learn how to
                              compensate for E-W or N-S mirror inversion, and (of course) it will
                              establish a scale factor between guide commands and pixel movement.

                              However, you can help this by correctly specifying the focal length
                              you are using. Envisage can then start with the 'theoretical'
                              relationship between pixels and arcseconds of sky movement. You can
                              also start with the Gain set at 0.5, although you may wish to change
                              this after observing how the scope responds to Guiding requests.

                              Assuming everything goes well, after calibration a small circle will
                              appear - and it, too, should be aligned with the crosshairs, and the
                              tracked star, and the centre of the tracking box.

                              If that seems to be the case, the try clicking the "Centre Target"
                              button - the star's image should move to the centre of the Envisage
                              Live Image window (now you see why it is best to be able to see ALL
                              of the Envisage window). Try also clicking the "Set Target" button,
                              followed by a single mouse click somewhere on the Envisage window.
                              Again the star, the box, the crosshairs and the circle should all
                              move to the same point.

                              Importantly, this should happen quite quickly - my setup takes no
                              more than a few seconds to move things around on the screen. Much
                              longer than that, and the most likely culprit is a PC with
                              insufficient processing power (I observe this when I use a 1.7GHz
                              machine, with only 512Mb RAM). Also, there should be little or
                              no 'overshoot' when the target position is reached. If there is, try
                              reducing the Gain figure - but you will also need to click the 'No
                              Cal.' button to get it back to 'Will Cal.' and you will need to re-
                              do the 'Track Here' calibration process as described above.

                              If the behaviour of the movement on screen seems in ANY way to
                              be 'sloppy', or 'erratic', then you have a problem - and this
                              problem is going to prevent you being able to Track successfully.

                              And, if you can't track, I doubt very much whether you will be able
                              to Guide.

                              You will need to go back to basics - get the Training of your drives
                              sorted out first (well, Calibrate Motors first, actually). There are
                              many write-ups about this. I have posted at length on both these
                              subjects - not only here, but also on Mike Weasner's excellent ETX
                              site as well. (And, you will definitely benefit from Dick Seymour's
                              patch kits - so make sure you are running on a recent version of
                              that as well).

                              You don't want too much (or any !!) mirror flop, so get an EZ-Focus
                              mod kit. At the same time, spend $0.50 and make a Hartmann mask -
                              tighly focussed images give you a better chance of accurate tracking.

                              Take time to drift-align your scope - and remember that, even if you
                              are not permanently located in an observatory, a lot of the set-up
                              time can be carried out long before it gets dark, and long before
                              the scope has reached thermal equilibrium (although, here in
                              Scotland it seems that all of these processes are concluded either
                              (a) just as it starts raining, or (b) just as it starts getting
                              light again !!!).

                              And, as Dennis Persyk points out - you really ought to avoid trying
                              to auto-guide (or even manually guide) your scope until you have
                              sorted out all the little niggles of just simple tracking
                              requirements.

                              After all, until you take the time to eliminate PEC (a difficult
                              enough task with the LX90) and to correctly adjust Sidereal Tracking
                              Rate (an essential task in my opinion, and one that absolutely HAS
                              to have a Seymour Patch installed - in order to be able to implement
                              the fine adjustements that are needed) then all your Guiding
                              commands are going to be fighting those errors first - just as they
                              would have to fight the errors associated with poor polar alignment
                              as well.

                              So, lots of information. Hopefully all factually correct (I
                              appreciate my errors being pointed out to me - after all, we are ALL
                              still learning). And, hopefully, not too much for you to
                              assimilate !!!

                              Cheers,
                              Niall Saunders
                              Clinterty Observatories
                              Aberdeen, SCOTLAND
                              (by the way, if anyone reading this is running a vehicle on anything
                              less 'green' than Solar Power, can you please STOP - it has been
                              raining here now since May, and whilst having 'two by two' LX90's,
                              RXC400's, TAK's, etc. in the observatory would be nice, it is the
                              two of every living species being piled in that is becoming irksome.
                              And it is high tide again!)
                            • Alvaro Gaviria
                              Hello Niall and Stephen. Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual core
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hello Niall and Stephen.


                                Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me

                                Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual
                                core processor
                                3 USP 2.0 ports and any COM port so I use a USB to COM conversor and
                                work fine.

                                For the moment I have only one DSI color II camera, I am thinking to
                                order a new DSI pro II
                                and the Astro Teck 80mm APO, the balance, the losmardy doveplate etc in
                                the near future
                                is why I a asking before buy.

                                At the moment the Vaio can handle the DSI and the COM port, also the
                                external mouse,
                                i supposed it give the 500 Milliamperes per USB

                                I track in polar mode some galaxy with drizzle and have good result for
                                11 to 15 sec each frame

                                You can see my folder at:

                                http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx

                                I also have a power hub with external 120 volts adapter. I hope the hub
                                can provide all the current needed for the cameras without subtract much
                                current from the laptop.

                                Do you think that the Vaio with the power hub is enough to guide and image ?



                                Thanks again

                                Alvaro

                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Stephen Hamilton
                                Alvaro, Yes, that setup will work fine. I run everything now thru a single powered hub including two cameras, a GPUSB guide connection and the RS232
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Alvaro,



                                  Yes, that setup will work fine. I run everything now thru a single powered hub including two cameras, a GPUSB guide connection and the RS232 connection. All works well. By the way, I guess one small question I forgot to ask is do you have a wedge? Your ability to image much longer then 30 seconds will be quite limited without one.

                                  Stephen P. Hamilton
                                  http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com
                                  King George Observatory
                                  38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"

                                  _____

                                  From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@...]
                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:25 PM
                                  To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2



                                  Hello Niall and Stephen.

                                  Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me

                                  Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual
                                  core processor
                                  3 USP 2.0 ports and any COM port so I use a USB to COM conversor and
                                  work fine.

                                  For the moment I have only one DSI color II camera, I am thinking to
                                  order a new DSI pro II
                                  and the Astro Teck 80mm APO, the balance, the losmardy doveplate etc in
                                  the near future
                                  is why I a asking before buy.

                                  At the moment the Vaio can handle the DSI and the COM port, also the
                                  external mouse,
                                  i supposed it give the 500 Milliamperes per USB

                                  I track in polar mode some galaxy with drizzle and have good result for
                                  11 to 15 sec each frame

                                  You can see my folder at:

                                  http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx>

                                  I also have a power hub with external 120 volts adapter. I hope the hub
                                  can provide all the current needed for the cameras without subtract much
                                  current from the laptop.

                                  Do you think that the Vaio with the power hub is enough to guide and image ?

                                  Thanks again

                                  Alvaro

                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Alvaro Gaviria
                                  Hello Stephen Hamilton Yes I have a Wedge, with a little modification work fine for my latitude I adjust the polar mode by the drift method. You never answer
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hello Stephen Hamilton

                                    Yes I have a Wedge, with a little modification work fine for my latitude
                                    I adjust the polar mode by the drift method.

                                    You never answer me why the Envisage show 1.20 in extended view when
                                    the canera in on :) ?

                                    Thanks for your help Stephen.

                                    Alvaro





                                    escribió:
                                    > Alvaro,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yes, that setup will work fine. I run everything now thru a single powered hub including two cameras, a GPUSB guide connection and the RS232 connection. All works well. By the way, I guess one small question I forgot to ask is do you have a wedge? Your ability to image much longer then 30 seconds will be quite limited without one.
                                    >
                                    > Stephen P. Hamilton
                                    > http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com
                                    > King George Observatory
                                    > 38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"
                                    >
                                    > _____
                                    >
                                    > From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@...]
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:25 PM
                                    > To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hello Niall and Stephen.
                                    >
                                    > Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me
                                    >
                                    > Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual
                                    > core processor
                                    > 3 USP 2.0 ports and any COM port so I use a USB to COM conversor and
                                    > work fine.
                                    >
                                    > For the moment I have only one DSI color II camera, I am thinking to
                                    > order a new DSI pro II
                                    > and the Astro Teck 80mm APO, the balance, the losmardy doveplate etc in
                                    > the near future
                                    > is why I a asking before buy.
                                    >
                                    > At the moment the Vaio can handle the DSI and the COM port, also the
                                    > external mouse,
                                    > i supposed it give the 500 Milliamperes per USB
                                    >
                                    > I track in polar mode some galaxy with drizzle and have good result for
                                    > 11 to 15 sec each frame
                                    >
                                    > You can see my folder at:
                                    >
                                    > http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx>
                                    >
                                    > I also have a power hub with external 120 volts adapter. I hope the hub
                                    > can provide all the current needed for the cameras without subtract much
                                    > current from the laptop.
                                    >
                                    > Do you think that the Vaio with the power hub is enough to guide and image ?
                                    >
                                    > Thanks again
                                    >
                                    > Alvaro
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Stephen Hamilton
                                    Sorry about that, I can t tell you why yours is showing 1.20, mine shows 1.00, not sure what the difference is there. Stephen P. Hamilton
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Sorry about that, I can't tell you why yours is showing 1.20, mine shows 1.00, not sure what the difference is there.

                                      Stephen P. Hamilton
                                      http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com
                                      King George Observatory
                                      38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"

                                      _____

                                      From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@...]
                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 6:18 PM
                                      To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2



                                      Hello Stephen Hamilton

                                      Yes I have a Wedge, with a little modification work fine for my latitude
                                      I adjust the polar mode by the drift method.

                                      You never answer me why the Envisage show 1.20 in extended view when
                                      the canera in on :) ?

                                      Thanks for your help Stephen.

                                      Alvaro

                                      escribió:
                                      > Alvaro,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yes, that setup will work fine. I run everything now thru a single powered hub including two cameras, a GPUSB guide connection and the RS232 connection. All works well. By the way, I guess one small question I forgot to ask is do you have a wedge? Your ability to image much longer then 30 seconds will be quite limited without one.
                                      >
                                      > Stephen P. Hamilton
                                      > http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com <http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com>
                                      > King George Observatory
                                      > 38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"
                                      >
                                      > _____
                                      >
                                      > From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@... <mailto:algaviri%40orbitel.net.co> ]
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:25 PM
                                      > To: lx90@yahoogroups.com <mailto:lx90%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hello Niall and Stephen.
                                      >
                                      > Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me
                                      >
                                      > Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual
                                      > core processor
                                      > 3 USP 2.0 ports and any COM port so I use a USB to COM conversor and
                                      > work fine.
                                      >
                                      > For the moment I have only one DSI color II camera, I am thinking to
                                      > order a new DSI pro II
                                      > and the Astro Teck 80mm APO, the balance, the losmardy doveplate etc in
                                      > the near future
                                      > is why I a asking before buy.
                                      >
                                      > At the moment the Vaio can handle the DSI and the COM port, also the
                                      > external mouse,
                                      > i supposed it give the 500 Milliamperes per USB
                                      >
                                      > I track in polar mode some galaxy with drizzle and have good result for
                                      > 11 to 15 sec each frame
                                      >
                                      > You can see my folder at:
                                      >
                                      > http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx> <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx> >
                                      >
                                      > I also have a power hub with external 120 volts adapter. I hope the hub
                                      > can provide all the current needed for the cameras without subtract much
                                      > current from the laptop.
                                      >
                                      > Do you think that the Vaio with the power hub is enough to guide and image ?
                                      >
                                      > Thanks again
                                      >
                                      > Alvaro
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:lx90-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Alvaro Gaviria
                                      Your show 1.00 with the camera on ? mine show 1.00 but with the camera disconnected Perhaps work different with the DSI color II ? Alvaro ... [Non-text
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 3, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Your show 1.00 with the camera on ?
                                        mine show 1.00 but with the camera disconnected

                                        Perhaps work different with the DSI color II ?

                                        Alvaro





                                        Stephen Hamilton escribió:
                                        > Sorry about that, I can't tell you why yours is showing 1.20, mine shows 1.00, not sure what the difference is there.
                                        >
                                        > Stephen P. Hamilton
                                        > http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com
                                        > King George Observatory
                                        > 38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"
                                        >
                                        > _____
                                        >
                                        > From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@...]
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 6:18 PM
                                        > To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hello Stephen Hamilton
                                        >
                                        > Yes I have a Wedge, with a little modification work fine for my latitude
                                        > I adjust the polar mode by the drift method.
                                        >
                                        > You never answer me why the Envisage show 1.20 in extended view when
                                        > the canera in on :) ?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for your help Stephen.
                                        >
                                        > Alvaro
                                        >
                                        > escribió:
                                        >
                                        >> Alvaro,
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Yes, that setup will work fine. I run everything now thru a single powered hub including two cameras, a GPUSB guide connection and the RS232 connection. All works well. By the way, I guess one small question I forgot to ask is do you have a wedge? Your ability to image much longer then 30 seconds will be quite limited without one.
                                        >>
                                        >> Stephen P. Hamilton
                                        >> http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com <http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com>
                                        >> King George Observatory
                                        >> 38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"
                                        >>
                                        >> _____
                                        >>
                                        >> From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@... <mailto:algaviri%40orbitel.net.co> ]
                                        >> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:25 PM
                                        >> To: lx90@yahoogroups.com <mailto:lx90%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        >> Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Hello Niall and Stephen.
                                        >>
                                        >> Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me
                                        >>
                                        >> Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual
                                        >> core processor
                                        >> 3 USP 2.0 ports and any COM port so I use a USB to COM conversor and
                                        >> work fine.
                                        >>
                                        >> For the moment I have only one DSI color II camera, I am thinking to
                                        >> order a new DSI pro II
                                        >> and the Astro Teck 80mm APO, the balance, the losmardy doveplate etc in
                                        >> the near future
                                        >> is why I a asking before buy.
                                        >>
                                        >> At the moment the Vaio can handle the DSI and the COM port, also the
                                        >> external mouse,
                                        >> i supposed it give the 500 Milliamperes per USB
                                        >>
                                        >> I track in polar mode some galaxy with drizzle and have good result for
                                        >> 11 to 15 sec each frame
                                        >>
                                        >> You can see my folder at:
                                        >>
                                        >> http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx> <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx> >
                                        >>
                                        >> I also have a power hub with external 120 volts adapter. I hope the hub
                                        >> can provide all the current needed for the cameras without subtract much
                                        >> current from the laptop.
                                        >>
                                        >> Do you think that the Vaio with the power hub is enough to guide and image ?
                                        >>
                                        >> Thanks again
                                        >>
                                        >> Alvaro
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:lx90-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Wolfgang Renz
                                        Hi Alvaro Good to hear that milling two notches into the rod bar works for your needs at you latitude. The 3 mm is a bit less than I estimated by measuring it
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jul 4, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Alvaro

                                          Good to hear that milling two notches into the rod bar works
                                          for your needs at you latitude. The 3 mm is a bit less than I
                                          estimated by measuring it at my Meade standard wedge.

                                          Is the 3 mm also enough to point at Polaris in polar home
                                          position if it is at the low side of the pole ?

                                          How and how accurately do you polar align ?
                                          Drift alignment ?
                                          Pointing the polar axis directly at the pole (by star comparison)
                                          should give some issues due to refraction.
                                          ftp://ftp.aavso.org/charts/misc/polar/
                                          ftp://ftp.aavso.org/charts/misc/polar/polarpath.gif

                                          How did you solve the issue with the tip over ?

                                          Did you relocate the azimuth adjuster to one of the legs ?

                                          Clear skies
                                          Wolfgang

                                          --
                                          Wolfgang Renz, Karlsruhe, Germany
                                          Rz.BAV = WRe.vsnet = RWG.AAVSO



                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Alvaro Gaviria" <algaviri@...>
                                          To: <lx90@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:51 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [lx90] WEDGE FOR 6 DEGREES NORTH


                                          I make two notches 3mm deep for 6 mm at each end of the rod bar
                                          to let the tilt plate go dawn enough.

                                          The rod bar is 30 mm outside diameter, so think that 3 mm is not much

                                          Alvaro



                                          AstronomyW4WMM@... escribió:
                                          >
                                          > Alvaro,
                                          >
                                          > What did you cut with the saw?



                                          > In a message dated 01-Jul-07 8:24:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                          > algaviri@... writes:
                                          >
                                          > I like to comment that the Meade standard Wedge work perfect at low
                                          > latitudes like mine
                                          > 06 degrees North.
                                          >
                                          > Only a minor modification to the rod bar with a saw.
                                          >
                                          > ====================
                                          > Looking Up,
                                          > Alan
                                          > 30.69° N 88.24° W
                                        • Alvaro Gaviria
                                          Hello Wolfgang, The wedge is good for about 12 degrees, The tripod have 6 drilled holes I use them and insert three bolts 2 in order to tilt the BASE of the
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jul 4, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hello Wolfgang,

                                            The wedge is good for about 12 degrees,

                                            The tripod have 6 drilled holes I use them and insert three bolts 2" in
                                            order to tilt
                                            the BASE of the wedge, The three bolts can be adjusted in or out. and I
                                            get a inclination of the wedge BASE about 6 degrees. also get lateral
                                            stability.

                                            At this point the tilt plate go down to ~ 7 degrees but I need 6,06 is why
                                            i must to mill 3 mm of the rod bar go get my 6,06 degrees
                                            exactly is 6 degrees 06 minutes 41 seconds by my Garmin GPS

                                            I do polar aligment with the drift method, select and see the drift
                                            of two stars one (EL.AZ) at the meridian and other near the horizon for
                                            the DEC alignment. The best is I do not need to see the polar star.

                                            Also use the WSC software.

                                            The azimuth adjuster is located on the base midway the two front (north) legs and work fine


                                            I do not have any problem with the tip over issue.

                                            Whit the new wedge my tracking improve a lot.
                                            At this time I am thinking to go to guide mode (2 cameras, 2 scopes)


                                            Best regards

                                            Alvaro
                                            Colombia





                                            Wolfgang Renz escribi�:
                                            > Hi Alvaro
                                            >
                                            > Good to hear that milling two notches into the rod bar works
                                            > for your needs at you latitude. The 3 mm is a bit less than I
                                            > estimated by measuring it at my Meade standard wedge.
                                            >
                                            > Is the 3 mm also enough to point at Polaris in polar home
                                            > position if it is at the low side of the pole ?
                                            >
                                            > How and how accurately do you polar align ?
                                            > Drift alignment ?
                                            > Pointing the polar axis directly at the pole (by star comparison)
                                            > should give some issues due to refraction.
                                            > ftp://ftp.aavso.org/charts/misc/polar/
                                            > ftp://ftp.aavso.org/charts/misc/polar/polarpath.gif
                                            >
                                            > How did you solve the issue with the tip over ?
                                            >
                                            > Did you relocate the azimuth adjuster to one of the legs ?
                                            >
                                            > Clear skies
                                            > Wolfgang
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Alvaro Gaviria
                                            Hi Niall, I just order the APO refractor, the second camera and several hardware to see if I can gide !! ;) *** Please why I will need a Dick Seymour s Patch
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jul 4, 2007
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                                              Hi Niall,

                                              I just order the APO refractor, the second camera and several hardware
                                              to see if I can gide !! ;)

                                              *** Please why I will need a Dick Seymour's Patch Kits ***


                                              Best regards
                                              Alvaro




                                              njsgps escribió:
                                              >> Many thanks and congratulations, is the best description
                                              >> that I ever read.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              > Alvaro,
                                              >
                                              > Thank-you for the compliment !! But, Stephen Hamilton's advice is
                                              > far better than mine. Remember, he DOES ACTUALLY USE THE LX90 IN
                                              > GUIDED MODE - I have not (yet).
                                              >
                                              > A further comment that I had intended to make. This goes back to the
                                              > number of connections from your PC to the cameras and AutoStar. If
                                              > you are going to try and use ONE computer to read BOTH camera data
                                              > streams, AND to send the serial guide commands TO the AutoStar, then
                                              > it had better be a VERY POWERFUL one.
                                              >
                                              > I use a 3.6GHz P4 Notebook PC, with 4Gb RAM, and running Windows XP
                                              > SP2 (Professional). WIth this set-up, I can get around 3 to 5 images
                                              > downloaded from the DSI, per SECOND (using USB 2.0 and a 5m USB 2.0
                                              > extension lead). I am also using the PC to power the DSI II Pro.
                                              > (This particular PC also seems to be able to comfortably provide the
                                              > full 500mA USB current on ALL of its USB ports, AT THE SAME TIME).
                                              >
                                              > If you cannot manage this successfully, then I would strongly
                                              > recommend that you use a SECOND computer to manage the Guiding
                                              > control - i.e. one for imaging, and one for guiding - BOTH running
                                              > Envisage.
                                              >
                                              > This also prevents Envisage itself having to manage both tasks
                                              > concurrently - and it gives you TWO screens to see what is happening.
                                              >
                                              > Finally, I should have mentioned this in the first posting. Remember
                                              > I said that you had to be able to TRACK successfully before you
                                              > attemted to Guide? Well, this is what I should have added....
                                              >
                                              > Let us assume that you are imaging a single star (Vega, for
                                              > example) - on screen (using whichever DSI camera you choose), but
                                              > where that camera is attached 'directly' to the viewport of the LX90
                                              > (main tube) OTA. In other words - no diagonals, no barlows, no focal
                                              > reducers.
                                              >
                                              > Because this single star is 'bright' you will be able to reduce the
                                              > exposure times down to almost minimum (say, 0.0010 sec, for
                                              > example). And, if you have a nice powerful PC, with a good high-
                                              > speed USB 2.0 interface, you should see pictures updating several
                                              > times per second.
                                              >
                                              > You should now try to centre the star in the middle of the field of
                                              > view - it helps to be running at a screen resolution of greater than
                                              > 1024 x 768, and to have enlarged the Envisage window enough to see
                                              > the WHOLE of the 'live' image.
                                              >
                                              > You should be able to 'control' the position of the star suing the
                                              > Autostar at SPEED=1. And I really must emphasize the word 'control'.
                                              > You should be able to decide EXACTLY where you want the star to be
                                              > on-screen, and you should be able to get it to go there just using
                                              > the AutoStar 'direction' keys. With NO overshoot, and NO rubber-
                                              > banding, and NO lag before movement. This requires that yiu have
                                              > VERY CAREFULLY performed the infamous Calibrate Motors and Train
                                              > Drives routines.
                                              >
                                              > You now select the 'Telescope' tab on Envisage and, having already
                                              > roughly centred the star on the screen, you should draw a 'small'
                                              > box around it - depending on the physical size of your monitor
                                              > display, I would estimate at no more than 15 - 20mm square. The
                                              > crosshairs that appear should consistently mark the centre of the
                                              > star, and should nearly always be in the middle of the defined
                                              > tracking box.
                                              >
                                              > If the cross-hairs do not seem to be hitting the 'centre' of the
                                              > star, then you may be experiencing poor seeing or inappropriate
                                              > contrast settings (which could be improved using the Envisage
                                              > Histogram slider controls).
                                              >
                                              > If the cross-hairs ARE following the centre of the star, but the
                                              > cross-hairs (and the star) are not always in the middle of the
                                              > tracking box, then something is causing the position of the star to
                                              > be moving too quickly to be followed by Envisage.
                                              >
                                              > If either of these conditions occurs, then you will be unlikely to
                                              > be able to Track, and will probably have no chance of being able to
                                              > Guide.
                                              >
                                              > However, if things appear to be steady enough, you can now get
                                              > Envisage to 'Connect' to the Scope (using the RS232 coinnection to
                                              > the AutoStar. However, it may be worth mentioning here that I have
                                              > experienced no end of problems using the Meade NetScope software (to
                                              > allow multiple software programs to talk to the AutoStar
                                              > simultaneously). The problem is one of 'priority' - and the Guiding
                                              > commands do not seem to have absolute priority - and I feel that
                                              > they should.
                                              >
                                              > So, in order to eliminate a possible cause of problems - especially
                                              > as you start your experiments - always connect 'direct' to your
                                              > appropriate COM port (and, as I have said so many times before, try
                                              > to avoid using USB to RS232 Serial 'emulators' - some work,
                                              > many 'sort of work', ALL are a definite source of problems when
                                              > trying to get 'real time' control of apparatus such as our
                                              > telescopes. This is another area where you can eliminate problems
                                              > before they arise).
                                              >
                                              > Now that Envisage is 'connected' to the AutoStar (and you have to be
                                              > in Polar mode for this to work, either that or you have to be
                                              > running one of Dick Seymour's Patch Kits in your firmaware) you can
                                              > start the calibration of the guiding routines.
                                              >
                                              > It should also be mentioned here that you should try to install your
                                              > DSI such that the USB lead is pointing to the LEFT as you look at
                                              > the rear of the OTA (remember, no diagonals, barlows or focal
                                              > reducers). And take the time to try and 'eyeball' the position of
                                              > the DSI - such that it is 'sitting square' with the axis movement of
                                              > your OTA. That way, East-West movement of the OTA should be observed
                                              > as E-W movement in Envisage - i.e. a 'horizontal movement' on the
                                              > screen. Don't worry if East and West are reversed, Envisage can sort
                                              > that out - in fact, it can even sort out a camera that is not
                                              > perfectly aligned E-W. It is just that, again, if you can eliminate
                                              > something, it won't be part of your possible final problem.
                                              >
                                              > If there is a button saying "No Cal.", then click this - it should
                                              > change to "Will Cal.", and this is normally how Envisage starts up -
                                              > and is what you need at this stage. With the box drawn around the
                                              > star, and the star being tracked, and with Envisage talking to the
                                              > AutoStar, now is the time to click "Guide Here".
                                              >
                                              > Because you have selected "Will Cal.", Envisage will send commands
                                              > to the AutoStar to establish how much movement occurs as it issues
                                              > Guiding Commands - what it is doing is 'calibrating' the guide
                                              > commands, so that it knows what needs to be issued to illicit a
                                              > required response from the OTA - to get a star to a specific pixel
                                              > position on the CCD, for example.
                                              >
                                              > If successful, it will buil-in the error in rotation position of the
                                              > DSI with respect to the rear of the OTA. It will also learn how to
                                              > compensate for E-W or N-S mirror inversion, and (of course) it will
                                              > establish a scale factor between guide commands and pixel movement.
                                              >
                                              > However, you can help this by correctly specifying the focal length
                                              > you are using. Envisage can then start with the 'theoretical'
                                              > relationship between pixels and arcseconds of sky movement. You can
                                              > also start with the Gain set at 0.5, although you may wish to change
                                              > this after observing how the scope responds to Guiding requests.
                                              >
                                              > Assuming everything goes well, after calibration a small circle will
                                              > appear - and it, too, should be aligned with the crosshairs, and the
                                              > tracked star, and the centre of the tracking box.
                                              >
                                              > If that seems to be the case, the try clicking the "Centre Target"
                                              > button - the star's image should move to the centre of the Envisage
                                              > Live Image window (now you see why it is best to be able to see ALL
                                              > of the Envisage window). Try also clicking the "Set Target" button,
                                              > followed by a single mouse click somewhere on the Envisage window.
                                              > Again the star, the box, the crosshairs and the circle should all
                                              > move to the same point.
                                              >
                                              > Importantly, this should happen quite quickly - my setup takes no
                                              > more than a few seconds to move things around on the screen. Much
                                              > longer than that, and the most likely culprit is a PC with
                                              > insufficient processing power (I observe this when I use a 1.7GHz
                                              > machine, with only 512Mb RAM). Also, there should be little or
                                              > no 'overshoot' when the target position is reached. If there is, try
                                              > reducing the Gain figure - but you will also need to click the 'No
                                              > Cal.' button to get it back to 'Will Cal.' and you will need to re-
                                              > do the 'Track Here' calibration process as described above.
                                              >
                                              > If the behaviour of the movement on screen seems in ANY way to
                                              > be 'sloppy', or 'erratic', then you have a problem - and this
                                              > problem is going to prevent you being able to Track successfully.
                                              >
                                              > And, if you can't track, I doubt very much whether you will be able
                                              > to Guide.
                                              >
                                              > You will need to go back to basics - get the Training of your drives
                                              > sorted out first (well, Calibrate Motors first, actually). There are
                                              > many write-ups about this. I have posted at length on both these
                                              > subjects - not only here, but also on Mike Weasner's excellent ETX
                                              > site as well. (And, you will definitely benefit from Dick Seymour's
                                              > patch kits - so make sure you are running on a recent version of
                                              > that as well).
                                              >
                                              > You don't want too much (or any !!) mirror flop, so get an EZ-Focus
                                              > mod kit. At the same time, spend $0.50 and make a Hartmann mask -
                                              > tighly focussed images give you a better chance of accurate tracking.
                                              >
                                              > Take time to drift-align your scope - and remember that, even if you
                                              > are not permanently located in an observatory, a lot of the set-up
                                              > time can be carried out long before it gets dark, and long before
                                              > the scope has reached thermal equilibrium (although, here in
                                              > Scotland it seems that all of these processes are concluded either
                                              > (a) just as it starts raining, or (b) just as it starts getting
                                              > light again !!!).
                                              >
                                              > And, as Dennis Persyk points out - you really ought to avoid trying
                                              > to auto-guide (or even manually guide) your scope until you have
                                              > sorted out all the little niggles of just simple tracking
                                              > requirements.
                                              >
                                              > After all, until you take the time to eliminate PEC (a difficult
                                              > enough task with the LX90) and to correctly adjust Sidereal Tracking
                                              > Rate (an essential task in my opinion, and one that absolutely HAS
                                              > to have a Seymour Patch installed - in order to be able to implement
                                              > the fine adjustements that are needed) then all your Guiding
                                              > commands are going to be fighting those errors first - just as they
                                              > would have to fight the errors associated with poor polar alignment
                                              > as well.
                                              >
                                              > So, lots of information. Hopefully all factually correct (I
                                              > appreciate my errors being pointed out to me - after all, we are ALL
                                              > still learning). And, hopefully, not too much for you to
                                              > assimilate !!!
                                              >
                                              > Cheers,
                                              > Niall Saunders
                                              > Clinterty Observatories
                                              > Aberdeen, SCOTLAND
                                              > (by the way, if anyone reading this is running a vehicle on anything
                                              > less 'green' than Solar Power, can you please STOP - it has been
                                              > raining here now since May, and whilst having 'two by two' LX90's,
                                              > RXC400's, TAK's, etc. in the observatory would be nice, it is the
                                              > two of every living species being piled in that is becoming irksome.
                                              > And it is high tide again!)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Alvaro Gaviria
                                              Hello Stephen I got the DSI pro II, but still waiting for the 80mm APO and Losmandy balance system But I am still thinking in change the LX90 8 !! I love the
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 16, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hello Stephen

                                                I got the DSI pro II, but still waiting for the 80mm APO and Losmandy
                                                balance system

                                                But I am still thinking in change the LX90 8" !!

                                                I love the RCX400 10", what can you tell me about it ??
                                                Is better than a good Losmandy GOTO base and a goo OTA 10" ? is not
                                                cheap hihi
                                                Is too heavy ?? I need move 1o feet's daily
                                                Can i use my actual Meade microfocuser on the RCX ?

                                                73
                                                Alvaro
                                                Colombia





                                                Stephen Hamilton escribió:
                                                > Alvaro,
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Yes, that setup will work fine. I run everything now thru a single powered hub including two cameras, a GPUSB guide connection and the RS232 connection. All works well. By the way, I guess one small question I forgot to ask is do you have a wedge? Your ability to image much longer then 30 seconds will be quite limited without one.
                                                >
                                                > Stephen P. Hamilton
                                                > http://www.HamiltonAstronomy.com
                                                > King George Observatory
                                                > 38° 21' 26" , -77° 03' 04"
                                                >
                                                > _____
                                                >
                                                > From: Alvaro Gaviria [mailto:algaviri@...]
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:25 PM
                                                > To: lx90@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [lx90] Envisage and two cameras Part 2
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Hello Niall and Stephen.
                                                >
                                                > Many thanks for the guide, is very usefull for me
                                                >
                                                > Actually I am running a Sony Vaio, it have 1 Mb ram, 160 Mb Disk, dual
                                                > core processor
                                                > 3 USP 2.0 ports and any COM port so I use a USB to COM conversor and
                                                > work fine.
                                                >
                                                > For the moment I have only one DSI color II camera, I am thinking to
                                                > order a new DSI pro II
                                                > and the Astro Teck 80mm APO, the balance, the losmardy doveplate etc in
                                                > the near future
                                                > is why I a asking before buy.
                                                >
                                                > At the moment the Vaio can handle the DSI and the COM port, also the
                                                > external mouse,
                                                > i supposed it give the 500 Milliamperes per USB
                                                >
                                                > I track in polar mode some galaxy with drizzle and have good result for
                                                > 11 to 15 sec each frame
                                                >
                                                > You can see my folder at:
                                                >
                                                > http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx <http://autostarsuite.net/photos/tachi/default.aspx>
                                                >
                                                > I also have a power hub with external 120 volts adapter. I hope the hub
                                                > can provide all the current needed for the cameras without subtract much
                                                > current from the laptop.
                                                >
                                                > Do you think that the Vaio with the power hub is enough to guide and image ?
                                                >
                                                > Thanks again
                                                >
                                                > Alvaro
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > To unsubscribe from this group mailto lx90-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >


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