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Re: [Lupin III] Lupin Series 1 Licensed?

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  • gabriel ricard
    Interesting. gabriel cidninja wrote: I realize the rules say not to mention fansubs and bootlegs, but I find this interesting. This has
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 31, 2006
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      Interesting.

      gabriel

      cidninja <cidninja@...> wrote:
      I realize the rules say not to mention fansubs and bootlegs, but I
      find this interesting. This has been posted at the website of a group
      who was in the process of fansubbing the first series. (I dunno if you
      want me giving the name of the group, even though things like that
      aren't hard to find.)


      "Today at 22pm GMT+1, I got a mail from a anime company asking us to
      stop releasing Lupin season 1 as they have now officially licensed it.

      Their official statement will be made at the next anime convention in
      the US. I hope they will do a good job and as always, we follow C&D
      requests.

      To the loyal Anime fans, I would say, come to our channel and we can
      provide a episode summary if wanted.
      It is real annoying as this is without a doubt the best Lupin episode
      there is and I just finished the translation yesterday evening :("







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    • cruzl
      ... I have my doubts about this as other sources do not seem to be reporting anything on this matter or taking note of it. The next major con appears to be
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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        --- In lupinthethird@yahoogroups.com, "cidninja" <cidninja@y...> wrote:
        > "Today at 22pm GMT+1, I got a mail from a anime company asking us to
        > stop releasing Lupin season 1 as they have now officially licensed it.
        >
        > Their official statement will be made at the next anime convention in
        > the US. I hope they will do a good job and as always, we follow C&D
        > requests.

        I have my doubts about this as other sources do not seem to be
        reporting anything on this matter or taking note of it. The next
        major con appears to be Katsucon in mid-February. So, not too
        much longer to find out if this is vapor or solid.

        ---
        "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love
        and be loved in return"

        Luis A. Cruz
        sprak[at]lupinencyclopedia[dot]com
        Lupin III Encyclopedia: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/
        Anime Video Game Resource Center: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/avrc/
      • cruzl
        Off the bat, I have to say the enter/return key should become a better friend of yours. ;) Break those paragraphs up into smaller bites, and it won t seem to
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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          Off the bat, I have to say the enter/return key should become a
          better friend of yours. ;) Break those paragraphs up into
          smaller bites, and it won't seem to be much of a chore to read.

          Now, on with the show...

          --- In lupinthethird@yahoogroups.com, "Cavan O'Donnelly"
          <cavan_odonnelly@m...> wrote:
          > I would find it kind of odd that someone would pick up the first
          > series at this stage of the game.

          Not terribly odd; while Lupin hasn't performed as well as Geneon
          would have hoped, it has performed well enough to hold its own
          in the market. The influx of members to this group is proof enough
          of this; with every Adult Swim airing, we saw a spike of new users
          join the group.

          The length of the first series makes it attractive to release on
          DVD (barring outrageous licensing costs) and possibly to shop
          around for an Adult Swim type airing also.

          > Another reason I doubt the veracity of this is that
          > companies other than the above mentioned might want to avoid
          > confusion between _their_ "Lupin" T.V. series and the "other"
          > (read: Geneon) T.V. series;

          Possibly, but this is something that can be solved by packaging.

          > Geneon releases recieved some negative connotations early on, due
          > to their playing fast and loose with the first dozen or so volumes
          > worth of dubs, some companies may be wary of people getting the
          > wrong impression about _their_ take on the series

          Honestly, most people don't know or don't care about what Geneon
          did with the dubs and more importantly about placing an episode
          out of order or about the TMS edits. The bulk of dub watchers
          that discuss the show have no issue with how it is dubbed.

          > (after all, the first two "Lupin III" shows were both called
          > simply "Lupin III", and unless they want to enter into the kind
          > of morass the the _film_ called "Lupin III" is in [you know, "The
          > Secret of Mamo", "The Mystery of Mamo", "Lupin tai Kuroon" et
          > cetera], there's gonna be confusion).

          Again, this is something that can be addressed with packaging and
          marketing. Even a simple tag like "The Original Series" would
          stand out to the consumer. Not to mention the green jacket...

          > the rub lies soley with marketing a "Lupin III" T.V. series when
          > the only "Lupin III" T.V. series most people are familiar with
          > wasn't even the _original,_ which is what they'd be trying to sell.

          This is not much of an issue; things are fairly self-contained
          in the Lupin universe. Having the second series and TV specials
          already released makes marketing the first series significantly
          easier.

          People are now familiar with the characters and what the
          general style of the series is. They might wonder where
          Goemon is for a bit, but the core formula is still present.

          > As for my personal feelings on this, I actually am worried about
          > this being true
          <snip>
          > but also because of how the program would be presented to
          > American audiences. To begin with, the licensing would probably
          > go through T.M.S.-Entertainment, which would doubtlessly edit the
          > programs,

          This is unavoidable for any US anime company licensing material.
          The past few years are littered with companies unable to get the
          same masters used for the Japanese TV or DVD releases. Lupin gets
          a bit more scrutiny simply because it used actual product logos, etc.

          > whether by overlaying, cropping, excising footage, changing the
          > music score, or even re-recording dialogue (all of which has
          > befallen, at one time or another, Geneon's releases).

          I believe there is only one possible instance of TMS recording
          new dialogue to hand over, and that was the "Happy Birthday"
          sequence. Overall, the edits TMS has made in the masters given
          to Geneon have been minor and barely noticeable. Again, it is
          a CYA move by TMS to ensure that they are not suddenly sued by
          a company whose logo appeared in the series.

          > Then there are the potential edits that could be made by the
          > licensees, which could include any or all of the above, and
          > might even include the bane of purists eveywhere, censorship.

          If the company goes for a TV airing, this could be an issue, but
          for the DVDs, they would be raked across the coals if they tried
          to edit too heavily.

          > packaging and special features would also have to be taken into
          > account.

          Special features for the first series are unlikely considering
          the age of the series. I would be happy enough if they used
          the restored footage produced for the recent run on satellite.

          I've checked various sources, etc., and there does not seem to be
          any other chatter around this. If it is picked up, I'm not
          particularly concerned about how it will be treated. If someone
          new does license the first series, Geneon, Funimation, and
          Tokyopop have given them a huge leg up.

          ---
          "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love
          and be loved in return"

          Luis A. Cruz
          sprak[at]lupinencyclopedia[dot]com
          Lupin III Encyclopedia: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/
          Anime Video Game Resource Center: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/avrc/
        • jthegamefan
          I d like to see Geneon s cast handle this, no matter who gets the rights. This would be a nice pickup for Discotek though, and it s hard for me to not root
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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            I'd like to see Geneon's cast handle this, no matter who gets the
            rights. This would be a nice pickup for Discotek though, and it's
            hard for me to not root for them with their Lupin releases.
          • Cavan O'Donnelly
            Okay, this is a moot point, what with Angela s revelation, but I still wanted to post this (I would have said this several days ago, except I ve been a bit
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 5, 2006
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              Okay, this is a moot point, what with Angela's revelation, but I still
              wanted to post this (I would have said this several days ago, except I've
              been a bit busy.

              >Off the bat, I have to say the enter/return key should become a
              >
              >better friend of yours. ;)� Break those paragraphs up into
              >
              >smaller bites, and it won't seem to be much of a chore to read.
              >

              Oddly enough, on a message board that I've been acquainted with on and off
              for about five-and-a-half years, I've been chastized for using the "Return"
              key _too_ much. But then, the people there are... odd. \_\

              Anyhow, I would like to say that your counterarguments have swayed me. And I
              always had the impression (from Wikipedia and a review of the first volume
              on A.N.N.) that the early Geneon dubs left some in the cold (hence the
              later, more accurate English dialogue); huh, my bad. Personally, I actually
              have a soft spot for some of those early dubs, as I do like cheesiness, in
              all honesty. Heck, given the campy nature of "The Second T.V. Series", it
              actually kind of made sense. That said, I'm still irked by the decision to
              turn Mr. X into a tasteless gay stereotype (and like Reed Nelson said on his
              page, the mere thought of this portrayal of the character subjecting Fujiko
              to the notorious "tickle torture" device in "Lupin is Burning...?" makes me
              cringe).

              As for T.M.S.-Entertainment's edits, well... I just don't like edits. My
              guess is I was somehow traumatized by Greedo shooting first.... *shrug*


              > > As for my personal feelings on this, I actually am worried about
              >
              > > this being true
              >
              ><snip>
              >
              > > but also because of how the program would be presented to
              >
              > > American audiences. To begin with, the licensing would probably
              >
              > > go through T.M.S.-Entertainment, which would doubtlessly edit the
              >
              > > programs,
              >
              >
              >
              >This is unavoidable for any US anime company licensing material.
              >
              >The past few years are littered with companies unable to get the
              >
              >same masters used for the Japanese TV or DVD releases.� Lupin gets
              >
              >a bit more scrutiny simply because it used actual product logos, etc.

              Huh, didn't know it was that widespread a problem. That said, I think that
              sort of thing has even happened with shows from outside Japan (I remember
              edits being made to the recent American DVD release of "Mr. Bean", a British
              sitcom, where several scenes were trunicated, if not completely excised).


              >I believe there is only one possible instance of TMS recording
              >
              >new dialogue to hand over, and that was the "Happy Birthday"
              >
              >sequence.� Overall, the edits TMS has made in the masters given
              >
              >to Geneon have been minor and barely noticeable.� Again, it is
              >
              >a CYA move by TMS to ensure that they are not suddenly sued by
              >
              >a company whose logo appeared in the series.

              I know, but they still kind of bother me. I suppose at some point I gonna
              have to make a concerted effort to learn Japanese (as well as a great deal
              of money) and get the Japanese DVDs. I do have to ask though, just why
              "Lupin Ondo" was cut from "Mamo" -- were the royalty fees to high, like with
              Neil Szadaka's music for "Mobile Suit Z Gundam", or am I missing something
              again?


              >Special features for the first series are unlikely considering
              >
              >the age of the series.� I would be happy enough if they used
              >
              >the restored footage produced for the recent run on satellite.

              I dunno, A.D.V. are giving us some great stuff for their DVDs of the
              original "Gatchaman", and that show started back in 1972. Personally, I'd
              love to see interviews with (and commentaries by) surviving members of the
              cast and crew, storyboards, music effects tracks, and other nifty things. As
              for packaging, I'd like either Yasuo Ohtsuka or Monkey Punch to do original
              cover art (a common practice for anime these days) which could be reprinted
              in lithographs and posters. But, as stated earlier, it's currently a moot
              point.

              You said something about "restored footage"... could you elaborate, please?
              Were these scenes that were originally seen years ago, but later cut, like
              some of the more violent/provacative parts of the original "King Kong"? Or
              were they deleted scenes that were animated but heretofore relagated to a
              storage facility (as is often the case for this sort of thing)? For that
              matter, why exactly were they cut; were the producers unable to fit them in
              the orignal time slot, or was it because Broadcast Standards and Practices
              objected to them? What episodes were they from, and what sort of stuff
              happened in them? What can I say, I'm a sucker for deleted scenes. :)

              Anyhow, that's basically all I wanted to say.

              Sincerely,
              Cavan Kerr O'Donnelly
            • cruzl
              ... There were those of us who didn t care for how the dialogue was handled when it first came out; I personally think though that those of us that did
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 5, 2006
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                --- In lupinthethird@yahoogroups.com, "Cavan O'Donnelly"
                <cavan_odonnelly@...> wrote:
                > Anyhow, I would like to say that your counterarguments have
                > swayed me. And I always had the impression (from Wikipedia and
                > a review of the first volume on A.N.N.) that the early Geneon
                > dubs left some in the cold (hence the

                There were those of us who didn't care for how the dialogue
                was handled when it first came out; I personally think though
                that those of us that did complain were mostly sub watchers by
                nature. The bulk of people who primarily watch dubs never
                seemed fazed by how the dub was handled.

                My primary gripe was the anachronistic references the early dub
                from Geneon kept making. When the series shows the characters
                playing pong, why would you even attempt to throw in references
                to modern pop culture figures? I don't mind the dub dialogue
                being spiced up or localized, but do it in a manner that stays
                true to the original source material.

                > I do have to ask though, just why "Lupin Ondo" was cut from
                > "Mamo" -- were the royalty fees to high, like with Neil
                > Szadaka's music for "Mobile Suit Z Gundam", or am I missing
                > something again?

                I have no solid answer to this question, but you are likely close
                to the mark. Licensing anime that makes heavy use of music has
                always been problematic; the music rights are usually separate and
                can be too pricey or difficult to obtain. Funimation's release
                of Kodocha is the latest title to experience such pains.

                "Lupin Ondo" has appeared on a few CDs that have come out in Japan,
                so it may have been possible but too expensive to get it. Doubt
                we will ever know for sure unless a tell-all Geneon book is
                published. :)

                > You said something about "restored footage"... could you elaborate,
                > please?

                Poor choice of words on my part, that should be better said as
                "remastered". For the recent HD satellite rebroadcast, they went
                back and remastered the video for the series. From what I have
                heard, it is light years improved over the DVD box set released in
                Japan a few years back.

                ---
                "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love
                and be loved in return"

                Luis A. Cruz
                sprak[at]lupinencyclopedia[dot]com
                Lupin III Encyclopedia: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/
                Anime Video Game Resource Center: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/avrc/
              • DANIEL ZELTER
                ... But what contradicts that argument is that the song has appeared in a couple episodes of the show.
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 5, 2006
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                  >I have no solid answer to this question, but you are likely close
                  >to the mark. Licensing anime that makes heavy use of music has
                  >always been problematic; the music rights are usually separate and
                  >can be too pricey or difficult to obtain. Funimation's release
                  >of Kodocha is the latest title to experience such pains.

                  But what contradicts that argument is that the song has appeared in a couple
                  episodes of the show.
                • DANIEL ZELTER
                  ... Tatsunoko must be less of a pain to negotiate with than TMS. ADV and Harmony Gold still have the rights to Macross(knock on wood) because of them.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 5, 2006
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                    >I dunno, A.D.V. are giving us some great stuff for their DVDs of the
                    >original "Gatchaman", and that show started back in 1972.

                    Tatsunoko must be less of a pain to negotiate with than TMS. ADV and
                    Harmony Gold still have the rights to Macross(knock on wood) because of
                    them. Although we still have yet to see an R1 subbed and uncut Speed Racer.
                    Hopefully, Lion's Gate taking so long to put out the dubbed version means
                    that they're close to losing the rights.
                  • Cavan O'Donnelly
                    ... That s all right; I always found in unfortunate that for T.O.T.V.S. , you either had the grainy, yellowed analog transfer or the dark, muddled digital
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 5, 2006
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                      > > You said something about "restored footage"... could you elaborate,
                      >
                      > > please?
                      >
                      >
                      >Poor choice of words on my part, that should be better said as
                      >
                      >"remastered".� For the recent HD satellite rebroadcast, they went
                      >
                      >back and remastered the video for the series.� From what I have
                      >
                      >heard, it is light years improved over the DVD box set released in
                      >
                      >Japan a few years back.

                      That's all right; I always found in unfortunate that for "T.O.T.V.S.", you
                      either had the grainy, yellowed analog transfer or the dark, muddled digital
                      transfer. No harm done; in fact, it's good news.

                      Sincerely,
                      Cavan Kerr O'Donnelly
                    • talesofthewolf
                      ... a couple ... Perhaps Macross 7 is a beter example? -Reed Nelson LupintheThird.net
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 6, 2006
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                        > >I have no solid answer to this question, but you are likely close
                        > >to the mark. Licensing anime that makes heavy use of music has
                        > >always been problematic; the music rights are usually separate and
                        > >can be too pricey or difficult to obtain. Funimation's release
                        > >of Kodocha is the latest title to experience such pains.
                        >
                        > But what contradicts that argument is that the song has appeared in
                        a couple
                        > episodes of the show.

                        Perhaps "Macross 7" is a beter example?

                        -Reed Nelson
                        LupintheThird.net
                      • cruzl
                        ... I believe Daniel is actually referring to Lupin Ondo and not Kodocha. Off the top of my head though, I m not sure if the Lupin Ondo snippets used in
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 6, 2006
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                          --- In lupinthethird@yahoogroups.com, talesofthewolf <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >> But what contradicts that argument is that the song has appeared in
                          >> a couple episodes of the show.
                          >
                          > Perhaps "Macross 7" is a beter example?

                          I believe Daniel is actually referring to "Lupin Ondo" and not
                          Kodocha. Off the top of my head though, I'm not sure if the
                          "Lupin Ondo" snippets used in the second series contain the
                          male vocals. That might have been the breaking point/issue on
                          obtaining it for the Geneon release of Mamo.

                          ---
                          "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love
                          and be loved in return"

                          Luis A. Cruz
                          sprak[at]lupinencyclopedia[dot]com
                          Lupin III Encyclopedia: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/
                          Anime Video Game Resource Center: http://www.lupinencyclopedia.com/avrc/
                        • talesofthewolf
                          ... Ah, yes, in that case, that would be my assumption as well. The male vocalist was supposedly a well-known Enka (sp?) singer, so getting the rights would
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 6, 2006
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                            > >> But what contradicts that argument is that the song has appeared in
                            > >> a couple episodes of the show.
                            > >
                            > > Perhaps "Macross 7" is a beter example?
                            >
                            > I believe Daniel is actually referring to "Lupin Ondo" and not
                            > Kodocha. Off the top of my head though, I'm not sure if the
                            > "Lupin Ondo" snippets used in the second series contain the
                            > male vocals. That might have been the breaking point/issue on
                            > obtaining it for the Geneon release of Mamo.

                            Ah, yes, in that case, that would be my assumption as well. The male
                            vocalist was supposedly a well-known Enka (sp?) singer, so getting the
                            rights would likely have been relatively expensive.

                            -Reed Nelson
                            LupintheThird.net
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