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RE: [luf-team] Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects

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  • Wayne Pinder
    Hey LUF Team, I have remained quiet for some time now just reading & appreciating much of your members contributions. I must say very intellectual
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 1, 2008
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      Hey LUF Team, I have remained quiet for some time now just reading &
      appreciating much of your members contributions. I must say very
      intellectual stimulation... However, I have not seen anything tangible so
      far other than virtual computer simulation stuff & academic talk of a better
      world, or world's to be. Do you think we should perhaps up the ante to ask
      members for their real accolades & achievements in both today's & perhaps
      future society?
      Your's Truly,
      Wayne Pinder

      _____

      From: luf-team@yahoogroups.com [mailto:luf-team@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Eric Hunting
      Sent: Monday, 1 December 2008 2:22 AM
      To: luf-team@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [luf-team] Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects



      I think Bryan offered some better comments on these interesting
      engineering topics than I could right now, so, if I may, I'd just like
      to focus on the TMP-specific question. The point of suggestions like
      the PolyTool isn't necessarily to establish some kind of industrial
      infrastructure from scratch. There are economic advantages in relying
      on open source technology and the communities of TMP will need to
      establish industrial independence in some way, but the point of this
      is really cultural, not economic. This isn't a prerequisite for
      creating the things described in TMP2. It might help, but off the
      shelf tools will certainly work too. The key here is the attempt to
      cultivate among the LUF/TMP community interest in cultivating Maker
      skills and philosophy and perhaps entrepreneurial spirit. To give
      people something to do hands-on that is relevant to creating both the
      skill base and the cultural impetus for the things in TMP. TMP needs a
      society of Makers -a society of McGuyvers- and right now most of the
      western society is a society of expendable middle-managers. The space
      advocacy community is full of people who aspire to personally colonize
      the solar system when they haven't so much as held a hammer in their
      hands for years. This is my point in suggesting these early hardware
      projects.

      Right now if ten million dollars materialized and we were to go build
      the first Aquarian seed settlement, it would be done off-the-shelf. We
      can do that now. It's what makes that concept so feasible. With money
      in hand, I could personally build the first Aquarian seed in 6 months
      to a year. But the more the LUF community can cultivate the Maker and
      entrepreneurial skills to make stuff itself, the less we have to
      depend on the miraculous appearance of that sort of money. If we had a
      couple dozen really robust Makers in the LUF right now, that same
      Aquarian seed might be built for the cost of raw materials -virtually
      nothing in comparison. It might take longer than 6 months to build but
      a whole lot less time than it takes to wait for economic angels to
      come out of the woodwork. So it's not about building tools from
      scratch as much as it's about building tool-users from scratch.

      Eric Hunting
      erichunting@ <mailto:erichunting%40gmail.com> gmail.com

      On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Luf-team@yahoogroup
      <mailto:Luf-team%40yahoogroups.com> s.com wrote:

      > Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects
      > Posted by: "nashe@optonline. <mailto:nashe%40optonline.net> net"
      nashe@optonline. <mailto:nashe%40optonline.net> net theunixerTue
      > Nov 25, 2008 4:40 pm (PST)
      > One thing needed for the polytool is to design the motor so that it
      > can be made by the tool system. Many other things need motors as
      > well. Several open source designs for inexpensive motors should be
      > given a very high priority. Several, because of the need for
      > different sizes (and therefore power output) and possibly different
      > types of motors.
      >
      > Can the permanent magnets be replaced by induction (so no brushes
      > needed) powered coils in the design? Without permanent magnets, it
      > might be harder to design in the first place but easier to make.
      >
      > =====
      >
      > Another thing are robots for manipulating whatever is being made
      > from raw material to final assembly. It would be nice to have as
      > much as possible be done by machine, without human involvement.
      >
      > I don't know if much if any work has been done on multiple robots
      > with their movements coriographed to work together. Everything I
      > have seen seems to have even with multiple robots, each is doing
      > their own thing, but never two or more working together. Having
      > multiple robots to manipulate something means at the very least that
      > smaller robots can be used. They don't have to be as powerful (and
      > therefore more expensive) if only a single arm is used.
      >
      > Naturally, 'our' robots would be designed so that they can be built
      > with the tool system. One of the reasons for making open source
      > motor designs so high a priority.
      >
      > =====
      >
      > Do we need to start up everything TMP2 will have from scratch as our
      > only strategy for growth? Plain recruiting people with the needed
      > expertise for anything is harder than if we can purchase an already
      > existing company whose people have the needed knowledge, plus an
      > existing toolbase. Even harder would be for existing members to
      > start a learning curve to learn a skill that is needed, and that
      > assumes we would even have enough people to do that.
      >
      > I do realize that some from-scratch startup is necessary, especially
      > at the beginning, otherwise TMP2 will never be anything more than a
      > collection of wiki articles.






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Wayne Pinder
      Hey LUF team, please let me be the the 1st to announce my credentials... 28 years experience in the automotive industry Certificate of Apprenticeship (Fitting
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 1, 2008
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        Hey LUF team, please let me be the the 1st to announce my credentials...
        28 years experience in the automotive industry
        Certificate of Apprenticeship (Fitting & Turning) 1981
        Diploma in Mechanical Engineering 1985
        Diploma in Process Engineering 1988
        All this experience gave me much knowledge over the years including IT which
        enabled me to greatly enhance & expand my skills, thus seeking your
        intellect to further enhance & hopefully build a better world for us all,
        including my children.
        Yours Truly,
        Wayne Pinder



        From: luf-team@yahoogroups.com [mailto:luf-team@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Wayne Pinder
        Sent: Monday, 1 December 2008 11:27 PM
        To: luf-team@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [luf-team] Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects



        Hey LUF Team, I have remained quiet for some time now just reading &
        appreciating much of your members contributions. I must say very
        intellectual stimulation... However, I have not seen anything tangible so
        far other than virtual computer simulation stuff & academic talk of a better
        world, or world's to be. Do you think we should perhaps up the ante to ask
        members for their real accolades & achievements in both today's & perhaps
        future society?
        Your's Truly,
        Wayne Pinder

        _____

        From: luf-team@yahoogroup <mailto:luf-team%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
        [mailto:luf-team@yahoogroup <mailto:luf-team%40yahoogroups.com> s.com] On
        Behalf
        Of Eric Hunting
        Sent: Monday, 1 December 2008 2:22 AM
        To: luf-team@yahoogroup <mailto:luf-team%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
        Subject: [luf-team] Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects

        I think Bryan offered some better comments on these interesting
        engineering topics than I could right now, so, if I may, I'd just like
        to focus on the TMP-specific question. The point of suggestions like
        the PolyTool isn't necessarily to establish some kind of industrial
        infrastructure from scratch. There are economic advantages in relying
        on open source technology and the communities of TMP will need to
        establish industrial independence in some way, but the point of this
        is really cultural, not economic. This isn't a prerequisite for
        creating the things described in TMP2. It might help, but off the
        shelf tools will certainly work too. The key here is the attempt to
        cultivate among the LUF/TMP community interest in cultivating Maker
        skills and philosophy and perhaps entrepreneurial spirit. To give
        people something to do hands-on that is relevant to creating both the
        skill base and the cultural impetus for the things in TMP. TMP needs a
        society of Makers -a society of McGuyvers- and right now most of the
        western society is a society of expendable middle-managers. The space
        advocacy community is full of people who aspire to personally colonize
        the solar system when they haven't so much as held a hammer in their
        hands for years. This is my point in suggesting these early hardware
        projects.

        Right now if ten million dollars materialized and we were to go build
        the first Aquarian seed settlement, it would be done off-the-shelf. We
        can do that now. It's what makes that concept so feasible. With money
        in hand, I could personally build the first Aquarian seed in 6 months
        to a year. But the more the LUF community can cultivate the Maker and
        entrepreneurial skills to make stuff itself, the less we have to
        depend on the miraculous appearance of that sort of money. If we had a
        couple dozen really robust Makers in the LUF right now, that same
        Aquarian seed might be built for the cost of raw materials -virtually
        nothing in comparison. It might take longer than 6 months to build but
        a whole lot less time than it takes to wait for economic angels to
        come out of the woodwork. So it's not about building tools from
        scratch as much as it's about building tool-users from scratch.

        Eric Hunting
        erichunting@ <mailto:erichunting%40gmail.com> gmail.com

        On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Luf-team@yahoogroup
        <mailto:Luf-team%40yahoogroups.com> s.com wrote:

        > Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects
        > Posted by: "nashe@optonline. <mailto:nashe%40optonline.net> net"
        nashe@optonline. <mailto:nashe%40optonline.net> net theunixerTue
        > Nov 25, 2008 4:40 pm (PST)
        > One thing needed for the polytool is to design the motor so that it
        > can be made by the tool system. Many other things need motors as
        > well. Several open source designs for inexpensive motors should be
        > given a very high priority. Several, because of the need for
        > different sizes (and therefore power output) and possibly different
        > types of motors.
        >
        > Can the permanent magnets be replaced by induction (so no brushes
        > needed) powered coils in the design? Without permanent magnets, it
        > might be harder to design in the first place but easier to make.
        >
        > =====
        >
        > Another thing are robots for manipulating whatever is being made
        > from raw material to final assembly. It would be nice to have as
        > much as possible be done by machine, without human involvement.
        >
        > I don't know if much if any work has been done on multiple robots
        > with their movements coriographed to work together. Everything I
        > have seen seems to have even with multiple robots, each is doing
        > their own thing, but never two or more working together. Having
        > multiple robots to manipulate something means at the very least that
        > smaller robots can be used. They don't have to be as powerful (and
        > therefore more expensive) if only a single arm is used.
        >
        > Naturally, 'our' robots would be designed so that they can be built
        > with the tool system. One of the reasons for making open source
        > motor designs so high a priority.
        >
        > =====
        >
        > Do we need to start up everything TMP2 will have from scratch as our
        > only strategy for growth? Plain recruiting people with the needed
        > expertise for anything is harder than if we can purchase an already
        > existing company whose people have the needed knowledge, plus an
        > existing toolbase. Even harder would be for existing members to
        > start a learning curve to learn a skill that is needed, and that
        > assumes we would even have enough people to do that.
        >
        > I do realize that some from-scratch startup is necessary, especially
        > at the beginning, otherwise TMP2 will never be anything more than a
        > collection of wiki articles.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bryan Bishop
        ... I m wondering what you might consider tangible to be. It is very easy to order cuts now from sites like ponoko, emachineshop, and oligonucleotides from
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Wayne Pinder <wpinder@...> wrote:
          > Hey LUF Team, I have remained quiet for some time now just reading &
          > appreciating much of your members contributions. I must say very
          > intellectual stimulation... However, I have not seen anything tangible so
          > far other than virtual computer simulation stuff & academic talk of a better

          I'm wondering what you might consider 'tangible' to be. It is very
          easy to order cuts now from sites like ponoko, emachineshop, and
          oligonucleotides from mrgene, geneoracle, e-oligos; or, given enough
          materials, cnc systems can be built to make further metal and other
          high-strength material systems. But that second option, which everyone
          here loves more than the first, would require those physical
          resources. As Eric said the other day, "if I had all of the materials
          today, I could have much of this cooking in 6 mo - 1 yr time", which
          is generally the attitude with the most of us I believe.

          > world, or world's to be. Do you think we should perhaps up the ante to ask
          > members for their real accolades & achievements in both today's & perhaps
          > future society?

          What do you think that anteing-up would look like, besides naming
          academic credentials? I'm just curious, maybe there's something that
          I've overlooked, etc.

          > Hey LUF team, please let me be the the 1st to announce my credentials...
          > 28 years experience in the automotive industry
          > Certificate of Apprenticeship (Fitting & Turning) 1981
          > Diploma in Mechanical Engineering 1985
          > Diploma in Process Engineering 1988

          But 'credentials' doesn't help us get those materials/resources for
          physical implementations. I am confused.

          > All this experience gave me much knowledge over the years including IT which

          The knowledge is what most of the simulation-stuff tends to be about.

          - Bryan
          http://heybryan.org/
          1 512 203 0507
        • Eric Hunting
          This is a good idea, but in the past participation in attempted skill and resource pool listings has been very poor. For my own part, my skills are primarily
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            This is a good idea, but in the past participation in attempted skill
            and resource pool listings has been very poor.

            For my own part, my skills are primarily as a writer, technologist,
            futurist, IT consultant, student of architecture and industrial
            design, alternative, sustainable, and low-toxic architecture
            researcher, and entrepreneur. My career pursuits have long been
            stymied by disability and the polluted and unprogressive environment
            of New Jersey. I think of myself as a nascent Maker given my extensive
            fabrication knowledge but long limited personal access to tools, which
            I hope to overcome with my own workshop soon. In addition to starting
            the TMP2 project, I have been attempting to break into sustainable
            real estate development with the specific intent of building a
            portfolio with which to establish the first TMP-specific community
            projects. I've recently entered the Buckminster Fuller Challenge and
            assisted in the entry for Leon Neihouse and the Phoenix Development
            Society. I've been working on a T-Slot Sourcebook, assisted the Jeriko
            House company with writing for their web site and strategic planning,
            been seeking support for the establishment of the first Maker
            Incubator community project, and am looking for opportunities to
            demonstrate adaptive architecture technologies and collaborative
            community development based on them. Currently, I'm co-owner of a
            small textbook related business which, in the three years since moving
            to New Mexico and in defiance of the economy, I've helped lift from a
            few tens of thousands to about two million dollars in sales per year -
            though it has not yet achieved my definition of sustainability. (too
            much counting on too few people and companies given the preponderance
            of flakiness among American businesspeople) The business is currently
            seeking investment in sourcing and market expansion and new domestic
            and international partners -which was looking promising this year but
            was recently hampered by the Wall Street melt-down, despite this line
            of work normally being a very good investment in times of recession
            due to growth in re-education and extended college attendance and a
            growth in foreign student numbers.

            Eric Hunting
            erichunting@...



            On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Luf-team@yahoogroups.com wrote:

            > Re: Green Bug and other Early Hardware Projects
            > Posted by: "Wayne Pinder" wpinder@... wayneneldaMon Dec
            > 1, 2008 4:26 am (PST)
            > Hey LUF Team, I have remained quiet for some time now just reading &
            > appreciating much of your members contributions. I must say very
            > intellectual stimulation... However, I have not seen anything
            > tangible so
            > far other than virtual computer simulation stuff & academic talk of
            > a better
            > world, or world's to be. Do you think we should perhaps up the ante
            > to ask
            > members for their real accolades & achievements in both today's &
            > perhaps
            > future society?
            > Your's Truly,
            > Wayne Pinder
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