Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

660/46 Litz Wire Source

Expand Messages
  • WilliamY
    Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)? It s available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 15, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
      It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.

      I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.

      Thanks. Bill Young WD5HOH
    • jpopelish
      ... There is an ebay auction for 60 feet of 330/46 litz. You could parallel a pair of these to make your antenna, for $20. -- Regards, John Popelish
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 15, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "WilliamY" <lpwjy@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
        > It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.
        >
        > I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.

        There is an ebay auction for 60 feet of 330/46 litz. You could parallel a pair of these to make your antenna, for $20.

        --
        Regards,

        John Popelish
      • William Young
        Thanks. I did something like that years ago with some medical hardware and it worked. And, also I have an idea how I can solder Litz wire: I have a 100 Watt
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 15, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks.  I did something like that years ago with some medical hardware and it worked. And, also I have an idea how I can solder Litz wire:  I have a 100 Watt soldering iron with a broad tip.  What if I melt a small "pool" of solder on the tip of the iron and push the cut end of the Litz wire into the molten solder and then tin it for say a half inch while it's being heated more or less uniformly by molten solder?   Bill Young WD5HOH 
           

          To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
          From: jpopelish@...
          Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:39:39 +0000
          Subject: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

           


          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "WilliamY" wrote:
          >
          > Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
          > It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.
          >
          > I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.

          There is an ebay auction for 60 feet of 330/46 litz. You could parallel a pair of these to make your antenna, for $20.

          --
          Regards,

          John Popelish


        • Myamiphil
          Did you use medical ecg patient cables? I wanted to use some for a very short length needed for an rf antenna connection.  I stripped it back and found the
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 16, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Did you use medical ecg patient cables? I wanted to use some for a very short length needed for an rf antenna connection.  I stripped it back and found the very soft and fine wire. I'm figuring it Litz. I tried to find specs on the cables but no go. I have no idea what the impedance is.. I'm guessing its 50 ohms.

            I can get a few of these easily.. They are usually 10 ft lengths. So for any decent length needed for a loop it'll have to be soldered together to get the needed length.

            Is this what you did?
             
             
            Best Regards
            Phil
            Lat: 40.8367633  Long: -74.1768412
             



            From: William Young <lpwjy@...>
            To: Loop Antenna Group Yahoo <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:18 AM
            Subject: RE: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

             
            Thanks.  I did something like that years ago with some medical hardware and it worked. And, also I have an idea how I can solder Litz wire:  I have a 100 Watt soldering iron with a broad tip.  What if I melt a small "pool" of solder on the tip of the iron and push the cut end of the Litz wire into the molten solder and then tin it for say a half inch while it's being heated more or less uniformly by molten solder?   Bill Young WD5HOH 
             

            To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
            From: jpopelish@...
            Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:39:39 +0000
            Subject: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

             


            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "WilliamY" wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
            > It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.
            >
            > I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.

            There is an ebay auction for 60 feet of 330/46 litz. You could parallel a pair of these to make your antenna, for $20.

            --
            Regards,

            John Popelish




          • William Young
            Phil, Some patient cables(at least this was true 30+ years ago) have graphite powder between the shield and the insulation around the center conductor. Some
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 16, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Phil, Some patient cables(at least this was true 30+ years ago) have graphite powder between the shield and the insulation around the center conductor. Some cable manufacturers claim the graphite reduces motion generated noise or "artifact". And the input impedance of a typical electrocardiogram(EKG or ECG) amplifier front end is no less than tens of megohms.  And I won't guarantee that you can solder to the center conductor of a typical patient cable. Further I don't see why an EKG patient cable would be made with Litz wire.  The EKG signal spectrum extends to a few thousand Hertz at most and the amplifier front end impedance is high.  Skin effect is not a problem in that application. 
               
              What I did years ago that's similar to what John suggested was to instruct a contractor to parallel another identical wire across an existing wire to get the impedance level between two points low enough to be within specification.  Simple if you think about it but not immediately obvious.  Bill Young WD5HOH 

              To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
              From: myamiphil@...
              Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 08:29:09 -0800
              Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

               
              Did you use medical ecg patient cables? I wanted to use some for a very short length needed for an rf antenna connection.  I stripped it back and found the very soft and fine wire. I'm figuring it Litz. I tried to find specs on the cables but no go. I have no idea what the impedance is.. I'm guessing its 50 ohms.

              I can get a few of these easily.. They are usually 10 ft lengths. So for any decent length needed for a loop it'll have to be soldered together to get the needed length.

              Is this what you did?
               
               
              Best Regards
              Phil
              Lat: 40.8367633  Long: -74.1768412
               



              From: William Young <lpwjy@...>
              To: Loop Antenna Group Yahoo <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:18 AM
              Subject: RE: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

               
              Thanks.  I did something like that years ago with some medical hardware and it worked. And, also I have an idea how I can solder Litz wire:  I have a 100 Watt soldering iron with a broad tip.  What if I melt a small "pool" of solder on the tip of the iron and push the cut end of the Litz wire into the molten solder and then tin it for say a half inch while it's being heated more or less uniformly by molten solder?   Bill Young WD5HOH 
               

              To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
              From: jpopelish@...
              Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:39:39 +0000
              Subject: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

               


              --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "WilliamY" wrote:
              >
              > Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
              > It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.
              >
              > I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.

              There is an ebay auction for 60 feet of 330/46 litz. You could parallel a pair of these to make your antenna, for $20.

              --
              Regards,

              John Popelish





            • everettsharp74
              Guys, If you are wanting to buy Litz wire, I have used this guy for the last 3 years, Ming, he does sell on eBay, but I have purchased wire directly from him
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 16, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Guys,
                 
                If you are wanting to buy Litz wire, I have used this guy for the last 3 years, Ming, he does sell on eBay, but I have purchased wire directly from him about 8 to 10 times with good results. So if you want to go direct it is:
                 
                I have bought well over 2,000' of his 660/46 and 330/46 Litz wire.
                 
                There is no problem soldering his wire, which is Chinese made. The way I solder it is to use a 40 watt iron, with good quality Rosen core solder and heat the wire while adding solder to the iron, which is placed under the wire. Once I have melted solder into the Litz wire I quickly wipe it with a rage and heat it up again and adding more solder and again wipe it.
                 
                Everett
                 
                In a message dated 2/16/2013 12:48:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, lpwjy@... writes:
                 

                Phil, Some patient cables(at least this was true 30+ years ago) have graphite powder between the shield and the insulation around the center conductor. Some cable manufacturers claim the graphite reduces motion generated noise or "artifact". And the input impedance of a typical electrocardiogram(EKG or ECG) amplifier front end is no less than tens of megohms.  And I won't guarantee that you can solder to the center conductor of a typical patient cable. Further I don't see why an EKG patient cable would be made with Litz wire.  The EKG signal spectrum extends to a few thousand Hertz at most and the amplifier front end impedance is high.  Skin effect is not a problem in that application. 
                 
                What I did years ago that's similar to what John suggested was to instruct a contractor to parallel another identical wire across an existing wire to get the impedance level between two point s low enough to be within specification.  Simple if you think about it but not immediately obvious.  Bill Young WD5HOH 

                To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                From: myamiphil@...
                Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 08:29:09 -0800
                Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

                 
                Did you use medical ecg patient cables? I wanted to use some for a very short length needed for an rf antenna connection.  I stripped it back and found the very soft and fine wire. I'm figuring it Litz. I tried to find specs on the cables but no go. I have no idea what the impedance is.. I'm guessing its 50 ohms.

                I can get a few of these easily.. They are usually 10 ft lengths. So for any decent length needed for a loop it'll have to be soldered together to get the needed length.

                Is this what you did?
                 
                 
                Best Regards
                Phil
                Lat: 40.8367633  Long: -74.1768412
                 



                From: William Young <lpwjy@...>
                To: Loop Antenna Group Yahoo <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:18 AM
                Subject: RE: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

                 
                Thanks.  I did something like that years ago with some medical hardware and it worked. And, also I have an idea how I can solder Litz wire:  I have a 100 Watt soldering iron with a broad tip.  What if I melt a small "pool" of solder on the tip of the iron and push the cut end of the Litz wire into the molten solder and then tin it for say a half inch while it's being heated more or less uniformly by molten solder?   Bill Young WD5HOH 
                 

                To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                From: jpopelish@...
                Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:39:39 +0000
                Subject: [loopantennas] Re: 660/46 Litz Wire Source

                 


                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "WilliamY" wrote:
                >
                > Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
                > It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.
                >
                > I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.

                There is an ebay auction for 60 feet of 330/46 litz. You could parallel a pair of these to make your antenna, for $20.

                --
                Regards,

                John Popelish





              • bk915
                I m just becoming aware of Litz wire but only know limited info on it. I think it s having each strand insulated as a way of decreasing skin effect? I m sure
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 18, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'm just becoming aware of Litz wire but only know limited info on it. I think it's having each strand insulated as a way of decreasing 'skin' effect? I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that.

                  Over the weekend I built a loop from a pdf I found somewhere that's from a UK mag 1989. This guy decided to make his own 'Litz' wire. He took 30awg wire-wrap wire, stuck a couple nails in his fence 100ft apart and ran the wire back and forth 16 times, chucked one end in a drill and wound it up. I didn't do that, I just used what I had, which was solid Cu enamled. I need to find something that's not so rigid.

                  Anyway, thoughts on what this guy did?

                  Bill W2NVD


                  --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "WilliamY" <lpwjy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Does anyone know where I can buy 30 feet of 660/46 Litz wire(solderable)?
                  > It's available on ebay, but I would have to buy 60 feet or go outside of ebay to complete a transaction which I'm reluctant to do.
                  >
                  > I want to build a two winding loop to plug into my existing rotateable loop antenna base so I can tune 1700 kHz to about 5,000 kHz.
                  >
                  > Thanks. Bill Young WD5HOH
                  >
                • John Popelish
                  ... Reducing skin effect is most of it. It makes use of almost all the copper as part of the RF conductivity, without wasting the space (and surface
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 18, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On 02/18/2013 08:14 AM, bk915 wrote:
                    > I'm just becoming aware of Litz wire but only know
                    > limited info on it. I think it's having each strand
                    > insulated as a way of decreasing 'skin' effect? I'm sure
                    > there's a lot more to it than that.

                    Reducing skin effect is most of it. It makes use of almost
                    all the copper as part of the RF conductivity, without
                    wasting the space (and surface capacitance) of having a
                    large, effectively hollow conductor.

                    > Over the weekend I built a loop from a pdf I found
                    > somewhere that's from a UK mag 1989. This guy decided to
                    > make his own 'Litz' wire. He took 30awg wire-wrap wire,
                    > stuck a couple nails in his fence 100ft apart and ran the
                    > wire back and forth 16 times, chucked one end in a drill
                    > and wound it up. I didn't do that, I just used what I
                    > had, which was solid Cu enamled. I need to find something
                    > that's not so rigid.
                    >
                    > Anyway, thoughts on what this guy did?

                    I like wire wrap wire, because it is silver plated and has a
                    low loss insulation (Kynar) that puts the strands a lot
                    farther apart than the enamelled strands of Litz, so the
                    inductance per foot is lower (though the capacitance per
                    foot is higher). But 30 ga. is way coarser than most Litz
                    (down to 46 ga.) so it is really starting to have lots of
                    skin effect at a MHz and above. But I think it is still a
                    big improvement over solid wire, of the same overall cross
                    section, even above the broadcast band.

                    A few years back, when I was crazy, I bought a huge reel
                    (miles) of twisted pair, 30 ga, wire wrap (black and yellow)
                    and have used only a few feet. If you or anyone wants a
                    hunk of that to make into multi-strand rope, let me know by
                    email, and I'll send you some.

                    jpopelish at gmail dot com

                    --
                    Regards,

                    John Popelish
                  • thb201
                    Litz wire is not just twisted small gauge insulated wire. The gauge of the small strands is sized depending on the frequency range over which it will be used
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 18, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Litz wire is not just twisted small gauge insulated wire. The gauge of the small strands is sized depending on the frequency range over which it will be used so that most of the wire cross section will carry RF current while minimizing skin effect. For example, for 850kHz. to 1.4MHz., 46 ga. wire is used. For 1kHz. to 10kHz., 30 ga. wire is used. This is because at lower frequencies the skin effect is less and larger sized wire can be used before skin effect starts occurring.

                      When they manufacture Litz wire it is wound in such a way that over any given length of cable, each wire strand will move through each possible position within the wire bundle. This is a much more complicated operation than just twisting the wires. With twisting any given strand will pretty much stay in the same position within the bundle relative to the other strands, while with Litz no two strands will stay near each for any length within the bundle as they are constantly changing position relative to each other.

                      Cheers,
                      John
                    • bk915
                      Thanks John and John. I m wondering whether I even need litz wire. Is one of the reasons for it to increase bandwidth? Also, I think the Q on the antenna I
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 19, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks John and John. I'm wondering whether I even need litz wire. Is one of the reasons for it to increase bandwidth?

                        Also, I think the Q on the antenna I just made is too high. It has a very sharp peak that's too narrow to pass the full station passband. I have a pdf regarding this and I can't locate it. I seem to recall that fewer turns results in more gain but less Q, and this is where I read that bit about being too sharp. Although, it said that this would be good for very crowded conditions, which I think might be helpful trying to get something from EU that might be between two stations here.

                        Something interesting I'm starting to think about, we picked up this qth a few years ago after someone else had gutted it and done a bunch of work on it. They re-sided it with cast plank siding, but underneath it they put a full sheath of foil covered insulation panels. Reception inside isn't too bad, the antenna does a fine job of nulling out the noise from the pellet stove, but I think I'm going to make my MW listening post on the third floor, which we had finished. The only thing up there is the roofing, with nothing inside except foam insulation and sheetrock. That'll be coming in the next week or so, I guess I'll find out if it makes much difference.

                        Thanks again,

                        Bill W2NVD



                        --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "thb201" <hudakjm@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Litz wire is not just twisted small gauge insulated wire. The gauge of the small strands is sized depending on the frequency range over which it will be used so that most of the wire cross section will carry RF current while minimizing skin effect. For example, for 850kHz. to 1.4MHz., 46 ga. wire is used. For 1kHz. to 10kHz., 30 ga. wire is used. This is because at lower frequencies the skin effect is less and larger sized wire can be used before skin effect starts occurring.
                        >
                        > When they manufacture Litz wire it is wound in such a way that over any given length of cable, each wire strand will move through each possible position within the wire bundle. This is a much more complicated operation than just twisting the wires. With twisting any given strand will pretty much stay in the same position within the bundle relative to the other strands, while with Litz no two strands will stay near each for any length within the bundle as they are constantly changing position relative to each other.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > John
                        >
                      • k5gp@sbcglobal.net
                        ... I would think a narrow BW means a high Q which means low losses. Would an increased BW indicate higher losses? Are higher losses preferred? 73 de k5gp
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 19, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          At 05:19 AM 2/19/2013, you wrote:
                          >Thanks John and John. I'm wondering whether I even need litz wire.
                          >Is one of the reasons for it to increase bandwidth?
                          >
                          >Also, I think the Q on the antenna I just made is too high. It has a
                          >very sharp peak that's too narrow to pass the full station passband.


                          I would think a narrow BW means a high Q which means low
                          losses. Would an increased BW indicate higher losses? Are higher
                          losses preferred?

                          73 de k5gp
                        • redsp
                          ... If a loop antenna is tuned with a capacitor it forms a tuned circuit. The Q of this circuit is the inductive reactance divided by the resistance. This
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 19, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, g.preston@... wrote:
                            >
                            > At 05:19 AM 2/19/2013, you wrote:
                            > >Thanks John and John. I'm wondering whether I even need litz wire.
                            > >Is one of the reasons for it to increase bandwidth?
                            > >
                            > >Also, I think the Q on the antenna I just made is too high. It has a
                            > >very sharp peak that's too narrow to pass the full station passband.
                            >
                            >
                            > I would think a narrow BW means a high Q which means low
                            > losses. Would an increased BW indicate higher losses? Are higher
                            > losses preferred?
                            >
                            > 73 de k5gp

                            If a loop antenna is tuned with a capacitor it forms a tuned circuit. The Q of this circuit is the inductive reactance divided by the resistance. This tells you how large a voltage will form from a constant level of stimulus as the oscillations build up. A higher signal level of course is better at the input of the receiver. But it makes the circuit slower to respond to changes in the level of stimulus. This is manifested as a narrower bandwidth with a higher Q.

                            Think of a pendulum swinging. One with a heavier weight is like a circuit with a higher Q. It takes longer to get it swinging and once you stop pushing it, it takes longer to slow down. So it responds more slowly to changes and has a narrower bandwidth.

                            The tradeoff is between the signal level and the bandwidth. If you add more resistance to increase the bandwidth, you lower the signal level.

                            Rick
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.