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Edginton QW Loop beacon-test on 160 Meters

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  • wb5wpa
    For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway. The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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      For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway.

      The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about 5:30 PM CST and then 2.0 MHz LSB after that until about 10 PM CST.

      The loop is 16' high x 40' long, stands vertically about 6' off the ground putting the highest part of the antenna about 22' above ground.

      The loop is oriented roughly N-S (actually about 8 deg E of N).

      Power level is 100 W max, with five transmitted tones varying from 100 Watts down to 1 Watt in 5 dB steps followed by voice ID.

      The transmit interval is every 2 minutes, with the beacon 'message' being about 30 secs in length.

      More details here as well as updates to the schedule:
      http://www.qrz.com/db/WB5WPA

      53, Jim WB5WPA


      P.S. I hope this posting is allowed in this forum, if not, please disregard. Thanks in advance.

      P.P.S. Preliminary testing has been on-going with this antenna and equipment since mid November.
    • STEVE MCDONALD
      Has there been any published data regarding depth of null vs loop aperture concerning small circular receiving loops? It has always been my gut-feeling
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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        Has there been any published data regarding 'depth of null' vs 'loop aperture' concerning small circular receiving loops?
        It has always been my gut-feeling that the smaller loops (< 4') had deeper and sharper nulls than larger loops (4-10')
        but don't recall reading anything definitive.

        Steve / VE7SL
      • Jack Smith
        I put some null depth data in my comparision of Pixel and Wellbrook. Not much difference between the two antennas for null depth. There s a huge problem with
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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          I put some null depth data in my comparision of Pixel and Wellbrook. Not much difference between the two antennas for null depth. There's a huge problem with re-radiation from nearby conductors, however, in my case the ham radio tower and antennas. As the frequency increases above the middle of the AM broadcast band, re-radiation severely distorts my loop nulls. And, of course once you are dealing with sky wave signals the loop nulls become highly variable at best.

          Document at http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/Documents/Loop%20vs%20Loop%20Final-Final.pdf

          Does not address the large aperature question, but as far as I know my data is one of very few measured null plots for small loops in a real life environment.

          Jack K8ZOA

          On 12/23/2012 8:49 PM, STEVE MCDONALD wrote:
           


          Has there been any published data regarding 'depth of null' vs 'loop aperture' concerning small circular receiving loops?
          It has always been my gut-feeling that the smaller loops (< 4') had deeper and sharper nulls than larger loops (4-10')
          but don't recall reading anything definitive.

          Steve / VE7SL


        • Jim Best
          FYI, I copied your propagation test on 2.000 Mhz here in Cheyenne Wyoming..It appeared to be the 100 watt tones were very weak at about S-2. However my
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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            FYI,

            I copied your propagation test on 2.000 Mhz here in Cheyenne Wyoming..It appeared to be the 100 watt tones

            were very weak at about S-2.  However my antenna is 80/40 meter trap dipole, receiver is Kenwood TS-870.

            Voice transmissions were not readable at this QTH.  Reported at 1945 MDT, 12/23/12.

            Good luck

            WU7 G   Jim

             

            For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway.

            The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about 5:30 PM CST and then 2.0 MHz LSB after that until about 10 PM CST.

            The loop is 16' high x 40' long, stands vertically about 6' off the ground putting the highest part of the antenna about 22' above ground.

            The loop is oriented roughly N-S (actually about 8 deg E of N).

            Power level is 100 W max, with five transmitted tones varying from 100 Watts down to 1 Watt in 5 dB steps followed by voice ID.

            The transmit interval is every 2 minutes, with the beacon 'message' being about 30 secs in length.

            More details here as well as updates to the schedule:
            http://www.qrz.com/db/WB5WPA

            53, Jim WB5WPA

            P.S. I hope this posting is allowed in this forum, if not, please disregard. Thanks in advance.

            P.P.S. Preliminary testing has been on-going with this antenna and equipment since mid November.

          • STEVE MCDONALD
            Thanks Jack ....I have printed this out for careful reading. I am fairly familiar with re-radiation and nearby towers affecting null depth and direction but am
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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              Thanks Jack ....I have printed this out for careful reading. I am fairly familiar with re-radiation and nearby towers affecting null depth and direction but am more curious about the null sharpness / depth vs aperture and if there is any relationship or not.



              > I put some null depth data in my comparision of Pixel and Wellbrook.
            • wb5wpa
              Thanks for the report, Jim I had a report from east of Alexandria in Louisiana about an hour ago ... individual was using a Degen 1103 portable and copying the
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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                Thanks for the report, Jim

                I had a report from east of Alexandria in Louisiana about
                an hour ago ... individual was using a Degen 1103 portable
                and copying the voice and tones ... that distance was only
                about 300 miles though compared to the trip up to Cheyenne
                Wyoming!

                Thanks again for the report.

                Jim WB5WPA


                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Best" <james9194@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > FYI,
                >
                > I copied your propagation test on 2.000 Mhz here in Cheyenne
                > Wyoming..It appeared to be the 100 watt tones
                >
                > were very weak at about S-2. However my antenna is 80/40 meter
                > trap dipole, receiver is Kenwood TS-870.
                >
                > Voice transmissions were not readable at this QTH. Reported at
                > 1945 MDT, 12/23/12.
                >
                > Good luck
                >
                > WU7 G Jim
                >
                >
                >
                > For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton
                > Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway.
                >
                > The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about 5:30 PM CST
                > and then 2.0 MHz LSB after that until about 10 PM CST.
                >
                > The loop is 16' high x 40' long, stands vertically about 6' off
                > the ground putting the highest part of the antenna about 22'
                > above ground.
                >
                > The loop is oriented roughly N-S (actually about 8 deg E of N).
                >
                > Power level is 100 W max, with five transmitted tones varying
                > from 100 Watts down to 1 Watt in 5 dB steps followed by voice ID.
                >
                > The transmit interval is every 2 minutes, with the beacon
                > 'message' being about 30 secs in length.
                >
                > More details here as well as updates to the schedule:
                > http://www.qrz.com/db/WB5WPA
                >
                > 73, Jim WB5WPA
                >
              • William Young
                To Jim WB5WPA, Tonight(12/23/2012) just before 10:00 PM, CST I heard some of your tones, some of them at about S3 or so. I didn t have your entire message in
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 23, 2012
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                  To Jim WB5WPA, Tonight(12/23/2012) just before 10:00 PM, CST I heard some of your tones, some of them at about S3 or so.  I didn't have your  entire message in front of me at the time, so I may have heard voice, but couldn't copy it.  I have the details now and will try tomorrow evening.  I am receiving you on an RX320D(TenTec) with a one foot square rotateable loop with two windings: one at about 50 Ohms driving the receiver and the other tuned and magnetically coupled to the first.  My QTH is Harris County, Texas just slightly northwest of Houston.    Bill Young  WD5HOH 
                   

                  To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                  From: jwin95@...
                  Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:14:24 +0000
                  Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Edginton QW Loop beacon-test on 160 Meters

                   
                  Thanks for the report, Jim

                  I had a report from east of Alexandria in Louisiana about
                  an hour ago ... individual was using a Degen 1103 portable
                  and copying the voice and tones ... that distance was only
                  about 300 miles though compared to the trip up to Cheyenne
                  Wyoming!

                  Thanks again for the report.

                  Jim WB5WPA

                  --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Best" <james9194@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > FYI,
                  >
                  > I copied your propagation test on 2.000 Mhz here in Cheyenne
                  > Wyoming..It appeared to be the 100 watt tones
                  >
                  > were very weak at about S-2. However my antenna is 80/40 meter
                  > trap dipole, receiver is Kenwood TS-870.
                  >
                  > Voice transmissions were not readable at this QTH. Reported at
                  > 1945 MDT, 12/23/12.
                  >
                  > Good luck
                  >
                  > WU7 G Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton
                  > Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway.
                  >
                  > The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about 5:30 PM CST
                  > and then 2.0 MHz LSB after that until about 10 PM CST.
                  >
                  > The loop is 16' high x 40' long, stands vertically about 6' off
                  > the ground putting the highest part of the antenna about 22'
                  > above ground.
                  >
                  > The loop is oriented roughly N-S (actually about 8 deg E of N).
                  >
                  > Power level is 100 W max, with five transmitted tones varying
                  > from 100 Watts down to 1 Watt in 5 dB steps followed by voice ID.
                  >
                  > The transmit interval is every 2 minutes, with the beacon
                  > 'message' being about 30 secs in length.
                  >
                  > More details here as well as updates to the schedule:
                  > http://www.qrz.com/db/WB5WPA
                  >
                  > 73, Jim WB5WPA
                  >


                • wb5wpa
                  Thank you for the report Bill. Nice to see an in-state report far to the south! (QTH here of course being North- Central Texas/DFW area.) Interesting antenna
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 24, 2012
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                    Thank you for the report Bill. Nice to see an in-state
                    report far to the south! (QTH here of course being North-
                    Central Texas/DFW area.)

                    Interesting antenna you describe using too.

                    I have set up to transmit on 1900 kHz again for the day until
                    about 6 PM this evening (there are nets that meet on 1900) and
                    then will QSY to 2 MHz again.

                    It would be interesting, Bill, if you get a chance to compare
                    the signal strengths from the group that meets on 1990 kHz
                    (every night starting about 7 PM) and in particular, how my
                    signal compares with the W5VYY station as he is only a couple
                    miles to my east and he runs a full-wave horizontal loop up
                    about 75 feet (contrasted with the beacon QW vertical 16'x40'
                    loop) and the W5VYY station tuns full legal power (whereas the
                    beacon is 100 W max).

                    Could make for a useful comparison, the cloud-warmer FWLoop
                    vs the low-radiation-angle vertical tuned QWLoop ...

                    73, Jim WB5WPA



                    --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, William Young <lpwjy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > To Jim WB5WPA, Tonight(12/23/2012) just before 10:00 PM, CST I heard some of your tones, some of them at about S3 or so. I didn't have your entire message in front of me at the time, so I may have heard voice, but couldn't copy it. I have the details now and will try tomorrow evening. I am receiving you on an RX320D(TenTec) with a one foot square rotateable loop with two windings: one at about 50 Ohms driving the receiver and the other tuned and magnetically coupled to the first. My QTH is Harris County, Texas just slightly northwest of Houston. Bill Young WD5HOH
                    > To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: jwin95@...
                    > Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:14:24 +0000
                    > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Edginton QW Loop beacon-test on 160 Meters
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Best" <james9194@> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton
                    > > Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway.
                    >
                    > > The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about 6:00 PM CST
                    > > and then 2.0 MHz LSB after that until morning.
                    > >
                    > > The loop is 16' high x 40' long, stands vertically about 6' off
                    > > the ground putting the highest part of the antenna about 22'
                    > > above ground.
                    > >
                    > > The loop is oriented roughly N-S (actually about 8 deg E of N).
                    > >
                    > > Power level is 100 W max, with five transmitted tones varying
                    > > from 100 Watts down to 1 Watt in 5 dB steps followed by voice ID.
                    >
                    > > The transmit interval is every 2 minutes, with the beacon
                    > > 'message' being about 30 secs in length.
                    >
                    > > More details here as well as updates to the schedule:
                    > > http://www.qrz.com/db/WB5WPA
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > 73, Jim WB5WPA
                    >
                  • William Young
                    Jim, OK, I will listen tonight and try to make the comparison. I was born in Sherman, Texas and lived in nearby Bonham until I was 9 years old in the spring
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 24, 2012
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                      Jim, OK, I will listen tonight and try to make the comparison.  I was born in Sherman, Texas and lived in nearby Bonham until I was 9 years old in the spring of 1949.  There was a ham across the street from us named McDougal(I think).  73 Bill Young WD5HOH 
                       

                      To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                      From: jwin95@...
                      Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 17:20:17 +0000
                      Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Edginton QW Loop beacon-test on 160 Meters

                       
                      Thank you for the report Bill. Nice to see an in-state
                      report far to the south! (QTH here of course being North-
                      Central Texas/DFW area.)

                      Interesting antenna you describe using too.

                      I have set up to transmit on 1900 kHz again for the day until
                      about 6 PM this evening (there are nets that meet on 1900) and
                      then will QSY to 2 MHz again.

                      It would be interesting, Bill, if you get a chance to compare
                      the signal strengths from the group that meets on 1990 kHz
                      (every night starting about 7 PM) and in particular, how my
                      signal compares with the W5VYY station as he is only a couple
                      miles to my east and he runs a full-wave horizontal loop up
                      about 75 feet (contrasted with the beacon QW vertical 16'x40'
                      loop) and the W5VYY station tuns full legal power (whereas the
                      beacon is 100 W max).

                      Could make for a useful comparison, the cloud-warmer FWLoop
                      vs the low-radiation-angle vertical tuned QWLoop ...

                      73, Jim WB5WPA

                      --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, William Young <lpwjy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > To Jim WB5WPA, Tonight(12/23/2012) just before 10:00 PM, CST I heard some of your tones, some of them at about S3 or so. I didn't have your entire message in front of me at the time, so I may have heard voice, but couldn't copy it. I have the details now and will try tomorrow evening. I am receiving you on an RX320D(TenTec) with a one foot square rotateable loop with two windings: one at about 50 Ohms driving the receiver and the other tuned and magnetically coupled to the first. My QTH is Harris County, Texas just slightly northwest of Houston. Bill Young WD5HOH
                      > To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: jwin95@...
                      > Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:14:24 +0000
                      > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Edginton QW Loop beacon-test on 160 Meters
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Best" <james9194@> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > For the next couple of weeks, a test of a 160 meter Ben Edginton
                      > > Quarter-Wave loop antenna will be underway.
                      >
                      > > The frequency will be 1900 kHz LSB up until about 6:00 PM CST
                      > > and then 2.0 MHz LSB after that until morning.
                      > >
                      > > The loop is 16' high x 40' long, stands vertically about 6' off
                      > > the ground putting the highest part of the antenna about 22'
                      > > above ground.
                      > >
                      > > The loop is oriented roughly N-S (actually about 8 deg E of N).
                      > >
                      > > Power level is 100 W max, with five transmitted tones varying
                      > > from 100 Watts down to 1 Watt in 5 dB steps followed by voice ID.
                      >
                      > > The transmit interval is every 2 minutes, with the beacon
                      > > 'message' being about 30 secs in length.
                      >
                      > > More details here as well as updates to the schedule:
                      > > http://www.qrz.com/db/WB5WPA
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > 73, Jim WB5WPA
                      >


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