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Re: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN

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  • Andy Ikin
    Ron, The ALA100LN has higher gain than the FGL100LN Flag antenna because the Flag has a higher loss due to the termination resistor. The Flag antenna loss is
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 12, 2012
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      Ron,
       
      The ALA100LN has higher gain than the FGL100LN Flag antenna because the Flag has a higher loss due to the termination resistor. The Flag antenna loss is approx. -10dB per octave. That's why the gain drops off significantly at low frequencies.
       
      The JFET/Bipolar version of the ALA100LN just has more gain above 10MHz due to the reduction of the FET Miller capacitance; by using the transistors in cascode.
       
      73
       
      Andrew
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
       
      From: Ron
      Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:24 AM
      Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN

       

      Andrew,

      On this moment the ALA100LN - shielded loop is my best antenna besides my beverage, the 10 by 4 meters FLG100LN is the inferiour antenna at the moment. All antennas are pointed in the same direction but the shielded loop has no attenuation on the "back" side of course.

      How is the JFET/Bipolar ALA100LN different from the standard model?

      My ALA100LN has no problem with strong MW signals. My strongest station is -16 dBm at night with the 30 meter coax. I have however connected the coax shield directly to a separate earth right under the antenna. The coax is a RG6 with a solid aluminum shield and a normal woven shield to double it up. I did receive the SAQ signal with a S/N of 12 dB on the FLG100LN and 26 dB S/N on the shielded ALA100LN loop. Signal strenghts on both antennas was the same. I remember you mailed me that the ALA and FLG amps where not designed to recieve so low in frequency but obviously they do a good job at it!

      73' Ron
      ON2RON / DXA64 @ jo21ec

      >
      > Juan,
      >
      > The ALA100LN I sent to you was a special extended HF version (JFET/Bipolar cascode). Therefore, there may be a problem with loop to screen capacity slugging the HF responce. I would recommend that the keep the loop to 8m circumfrence or smaller is MW overload is an issue; 2.5mm sq. wire is okay.
      >
      > At HF the loop size will affect the loops ability to reject near field electrical noise, so the smaller the loop size the better.
      >
      > 73
      >
      > Andrew
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: enriqueeeeee2001
      > To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:52 PM
      > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN
      >
      >
      >
      > Thank you Ron and Don for the advices,
      >
      > I have already received the ALA100LN, next week I will try it.
      >
      > Regarding the wire, I have been surfing the web and some people recommend twimax 100 Ohms cable, it is shielded has two wires that in parallel are 50 Ohms. I think that is a better option than the 2,5 mm electrical wire.
      >
      > By the way, since I am going to have two antennas,a Wellbrook 330S and an ala100LN I would like to get a phaser in order to null some interferences that comes from the elevator.
      >
      > Anybody knows one that covers both MW and SW?
      >
      > Best Regards
      >
      > --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Don <stb55@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi All,
      > >
      > > Also use the largest diameter wire that you can - it helps and I've done
      > > it on my ALA-100L's.
      > >
      > > Don WPC6NDB
      > > Upland, CA
      > > 34.10 -117.63 1250ft
      > > R-75 w/250Hz 2x R-71A w/250Hz R-70
      > > SDR-IQ SR-AF & LPF DSP599zx
      > > MFJ-784B HD-1418 AF-1 MSB-1
      > > PA0RDT Mini-Whip x2 @ 15ft
      > > LFL1010 ALA100L x2
      > >
      > >
      > > On 09-Jul-12 10:08, Ron wrote:
      > > > Hi Enrique,
      > > >
      > > > Congratulations on the purchase of the ALA100LN! No I cannot say that i notice any overloading or distortion with the 30 meter coax nor as i was using 30 meters of wire before that. My strongest broadcast station is 65 km from my home and produces a -21 dBm signal on my perseus SDR.
      > > >
      > > > If you can, try to use a shielded loop as it gives you 4 dBm more S/N as with a wire. Also try not to use 2.5 mm electrical wire as it tends to stretch in time. Use copperweld or as i do use some military grade telephone wire witch has stainless steel and copper strands. It will last a lifetime!
      > > >
      > > > I will however mount the shielded loop on my roof with a slightly smaller size loop to stay there permanently as the now used antenna is a temporarily setup.
      > > >
      > > > Good luck with your new antenna.
      > > >
      > > > 73' Ron
      > > > ON2RON / DXA64 @ jo21ec
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >> Hello Ron,
      > > >>
      > > >> Quite sure that my ALA 100LN will arrive this week. Just a question,according to the Wellbrook site this antenna can be used with 8-20 metres of wire.
      > > >> You say that have made a 30 m loop, Have you noted any distortion or overloading using this lenght?
      > > >>
      > > >> By the way, I am going to use 2,5mm electrical multi wire to make a 23 m loop.
      > > >>
      > > >> Nowadays, I am using a Wellbrook 330S I hope with the 100LN I will able to pick up more weak stations on the tropical band.
      > > >>
      > > >> Cheers.
      > > >>
      > > >> --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <bikeron@> wrote:
      > > >>>
      > > >>> Hi all,
      > > >>>
      > > >>> Since past sunday there was a transmission from SAQ in Grimeton Sweden on 17.2 khz i decided to make a new antenna.
      > > >>>
      > > >>> I had a flag antenna with a home build balun and a dx-engineering rpa-1 amplifier and repaced the balun with a Wellbrook FLG100LN module. Sadly it was at the end of the TA-MW season so had only a short time testing this antenna. Last sunday i received SAQ with a S/N of 12 dBm for the first time in my life and with this flag.
      > > >>>
      > > >>> In a hurry i made a 30 meter shielded delta loop with RG6 coax and a new ALA100LN module. When SAQ came back on the air for the second time the signal was received with 26.3 dBm S/N. A vast improvement on the flag antenna. On monday i had the time to ground the loop shield and got a 4 dBm lower noise level but and received signals did not suffer. The delta loop is only 1.2 meters above ground and the highest point is 5 meters. I live at 5 meters ASL with a moist clay soil under my antennas.
      > > >>>
      > > >>> I noted Andy Ikin from Wellbrook mailed me, that the ALA and FLG modules were not designed to perform so low in frequency but they effectively do so. My beverage pointing in the same direction had only 8 dBm S/N and my MiniWhip did not hear the transmission.
      > > >>>
      > > >>> 73' Ron
      > > >>> ON2RON - DXA64
      > > >>> JO21EC
      > > >>>
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
      > > >
      > > > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the Links rather than uploading the file.
      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
      > > >
      > > > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
      > > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
      > > >
      > > > And please trim all this when replying!Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----
      > > > No virus found in this message.
      > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5121 - Release Date: 07/09/12
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • enriqueeeeee2001
      Hello, I have already intalled my ALA 100LN on the roof. It is a 21 m loop in a single turn. It offers a big signal on MW and LW frequencies, I would need more
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 5, 2012
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        Hello,

        I have already intalled my ALA 100LN on the roof. It is a 21 m loop in a single turn.
        It offers a big signal on MW and LW frequencies, I would need more attenuation on most of the cases , I have s external one but I would like to know if there is a lineal potentiometer or similar that can work as an attenuator.

        My next step it is to build a 2X 1,5 m frame with three turns of wire, maybe this configuration will work better, but I want to keep the 21 m loop for weak signals.

        I have tested this ALA with my 330S and I have realized how good is the latter on the SW segment.

        Regards.


        --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Ikin" <andrew.ikin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ron,
        >
        > The ALA100LN has higher gain than the FGL100LN Flag antenna because the Flag has a higher loss due to the termination resistor. The Flag antenna loss is approx. -10dB per octave. That's why the gain drops off significantly at low frequencies.
        >
        > The JFET/Bipolar version of the ALA100LN just has more gain above 10MHz due to the reduction of the FET Miller capacitance; by using the transistors in cascode.
        >
        > 73
        >
        > Andrew
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > From: Ron
        > To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:24 AM
        > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN
        >
        >
        >
        > Andrew,
        >
        > On this moment the ALA100LN - shielded loop is my best antenna besides my beverage, the 10 by 4 meters FLG100LN is the inferiour antenna at the moment. All antennas are pointed in the same direction but the shielded loop has no attenuation on the "back" side of course.
        >
        > How is the JFET/Bipolar ALA100LN different from the standard model?
        >
        > My ALA100LN has no problem with strong MW signals. My strongest station is -16 dBm at night with the 30 meter coax. I have however connected the coax shield directly to a separate earth right under the antenna. The coax is a RG6 with a solid aluminum shield and a normal woven shield to double it up. I did receive the SAQ signal with a S/N of 12 dB on the FLG100LN and 26 dB S/N on the shielded ALA100LN loop. Signal strenghts on both antennas was the same. I remember you mailed me that the ALA and FLG amps where not designed to recieve so low in frequency but obviously they do a good job at it!
        >
        > 73' Ron
        > ON2RON / DXA64 @ jo21ec
        >
        > >
        > > Juan,
        > >
        > > The ALA100LN I sent to you was a special extended HF version (JFET/Bipolar cascode). Therefore, there may be a problem with loop to screen capacity slugging the HF responce. I would recommend that the keep the loop to 8m circumfrence or smaller is MW overload is an issue; 2.5mm sq. wire is okay.
        > >
        > > At HF the loop size will affect the loops ability to reject near field electrical noise, so the smaller the loop size the better.
        > >
        > > 73
        > >
        > > Andrew
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: enriqueeeeee2001
        > > To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:52 PM
        > > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thank you Ron and Don for the advices,
        > >
        > > I have already received the ALA100LN, next week I will try it.
        > >
        > > Regarding the wire, I have been surfing the web and some people recommend twimax 100 Ohms cable, it is shielded has two wires that in parallel are 50 Ohms. I think that is a better option than the 2,5 mm electrical wire.
        > >
        > > By the way, since I am going to have two antennas,a Wellbrook 330S and an ala100LN I would like to get a phaser in order to null some interferences that comes from the elevator.
        > >
        > > Anybody knows one that covers both MW and SW?
        > >
        > > Best Regards
        > >
        > > --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Don <stb55@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi All,
        > > >
        > > > Also use the largest diameter wire that you can - it helps and I've done
        > > > it on my ALA-100L's.
        > > >
        > > > Don WPC6NDB
        > > > Upland, CA
        > > > 34.10 -117.63 1250ft
        > > > R-75 w/250Hz 2x R-71A w/250Hz R-70
        > > > SDR-IQ SR-AF & LPF DSP599zx
        > > > MFJ-784B HD-1418 AF-1 MSB-1
        > > > PA0RDT Mini-Whip x2 @ 15ft
        > > > LFL1010 ALA100L x2
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On 09-Jul-12 10:08, Ron wrote:
        > > > > Hi Enrique,
        > > > >
        > > > > Congratulations on the purchase of the ALA100LN! No I cannot say that i notice any overloading or distortion with the 30 meter coax nor as i was using 30 meters of wire before that. My strongest broadcast station is 65 km from my home and produces a -21 dBm signal on my perseus SDR.
        > > > >
        > > > > If you can, try to use a shielded loop as it gives you 4 dBm more S/N as with a wire. Also try not to use 2.5 mm electrical wire as it tends to stretch in time. Use copperweld or as i do use some military grade telephone wire witch has stainless steel and copper strands. It will last a lifetime!
        > > > >
        > > > > I will however mount the shielded loop on my roof with a slightly smaller size loop to stay there permanently as the now used antenna is a temporarily setup.
        > > > >
        > > > > Good luck with your new antenna.
        > > > >
        > > > > 73' Ron
        > > > > ON2RON / DXA64 @ jo21ec
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >>
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Hello Ron,
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Quite sure that my ALA 100LN will arrive this week. Just a question,according to the Wellbrook site this antenna can be used with 8-20 metres of wire.
        > > > >> You say that have made a 30 m loop, Have you noted any distortion or overloading using this lenght?
        > > > >>
        > > > >> By the way, I am going to use 2,5mm electrical multi wire to make a 23 m loop.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Nowadays, I am using a Wellbrook 330S I hope with the 100LN I will able to pick up more weak stations on the tropical band.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> Cheers.
        > > > >>
        > > > >> --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <bikeron@> wrote:
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>> Hi all,
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>> Since past sunday there was a transmission from SAQ in Grimeton Sweden on 17.2 khz i decided to make a new antenna.
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>> I had a flag antenna with a home build balun and a dx-engineering rpa-1 amplifier and repaced the balun with a Wellbrook FLG100LN module. Sadly it was at the end of the TA-MW season so had only a short time testing this antenna. Last sunday i received SAQ with a S/N of 12 dBm for the first time in my life and with this flag.
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>> In a hurry i made a 30 meter shielded delta loop with RG6 coax and a new ALA100LN module. When SAQ came back on the air for the second time the signal was received with 26.3 dBm S/N. A vast improvement on the flag antenna. On monday i had the time to ground the loop shield and got a 4 dBm lower noise level but and received signals did not suffer. The delta loop is only 1.2 meters above ground and the highest point is 5 meters. I live at 5 meters ASL with a moist clay soil under my antennas.
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>> I noted Andy Ikin from Wellbrook mailed me, that the ALA and FLG modules were not designed to perform so low in frequency but they effectively do so. My beverage pointing in the same direction had only 8 dBm S/N and my MiniWhip did not hear the transmission.
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>> 73' Ron
        > > > >>> ON2RON - DXA64
        > > > >>> JO21EC
        > > > >>>
        > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ------------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
        > > > >
        > > > > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the Links rather than uploading the file.
        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
        > > > >
        > > > > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
        > > > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
        > > > >
        > > > > And please trim all this when replying!Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > -----
        > > > > No virus found in this message.
        > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virus Database: 2437/5121 - Release Date: 07/09/12
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • brian nsl
        Hi, Interesting comments, will your three turn loop have spaced wires or just a bundle ????? A nice size antenna to rotate. 72, Brian, GØNSL. ... From:
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 6, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi,
              Interesting comments, will your three turn loop have spaced wires or just a bundle ?????
          A nice size antenna to rotate.
                                                                   72, Brian, GØNSL.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 7:23 PM
          Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN
        • enriqueeeeee2001
          Hello Brian, Spaced at least 3-4 inches and triangular in shape. 6,3 metres each turn, maybe I will have to use two turns if overloads. I will start the
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 6, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Brian,

            Spaced at least 3-4 inches and triangular in shape. 6,3 metres each turn, maybe I will have to use two turns if overloads.

            I will start the project tomorrow morning.

            Regards.

            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "brian nsl" <brian.nsl@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            > Interesting comments, will your three turn loop have spaced wires or just a bundle ?????
            > A nice size antenna to rotate.
            > 72, Brian, GØNSL.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: enriqueeeeee2001
            > To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 7:23 PM
            > Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Shielded loop with Wellbrook ALA100LN
            >
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