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Re: New file uploades to loopantennas.

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  • d29602960
    Hi Chris and the group, I just downloaded your lates files from the files section of this group but each time I download and/or open the pdf files I get the
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
      Hi Chris and the group,

      I just downloaded your lates files from the "files" section of this group but each time I download and/or open the pdf files I get the following error...

      "Error opening pdf file"

      All your previous files including those on your web pages download/open without error. I wonder, have you changed the software you use to create pdf files recently?

      73,s to all.

      Des. (M0AYF)
    • dx11
      I had the same problem. Cor Beijersbergen I just downloaded your lates files from the files section of this group but each time I download and/or open the
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
        I had the same problem.

        Cor Beijersbergen

        I just downloaded your lates files from the "files" section of this group
        but each time I download and/or open the pdf files I get the following
        error...

        "Error opening pdf file"
      • Chris Trask
        ... I compiled that corrected version on my laptop, which has Adobe Acrobat 6.0, and which creates a 5.0 compatible file. My desk computer has 4.0, which
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
          >
          > I just downloaded your lates files from the "files" section of
          > this group but each time I download and/or open the pdf files
          > I get the following error...
          >
          > "Error opening pdf file"
          >
          > All your previous files including those on your web pages
          > download/open without error. I wonder, have you changed the
          > software you use to create pdf files recently?
          >

          I compiled that corrected version on my laptop, which has Adobe Acrobat 6.0, and which creates a 5.0 compatible file. My desk computer has 4.0, which creates a 3.0 compatible file that I much prefer. I'll compile it again when I return home.

          Chris
        • d29602960
          Hi again Chris and the group, Chris wrote: My desk computer has 4.0, which creates a 3.0 compatible file that I much prefer. I ll compile it again when I
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
            Hi again Chris and the group,

            Chris wrote:
            My desk computer has 4.0, which creates a 3.0 compatible file that I much prefer. I'll compile it again when I return home.
            *****

            Many thanks Chris and I look forward to reading the update.

            73,s

            Des.

            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Chris Trask <christrask@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > I just downloaded your lates files from the "files" section of
            > > this group but each time I download and/or open the pdf files
            > > I get the following error...
            > >
            > > "Error opening pdf file"
            > >
            > > All your previous files including those on your web pages
            > > download/open without error. I wonder, have you changed the
            > > software you use to create pdf files recently?
            > >
            >
            > I compiled that corrected version on my laptop, which has Adobe Acrobat 6.0, and which creates a 5.0 compatible file. My desk computer has 4.0, which creates a 3.0 compatible file that I much prefer. I'll compile it again when I return home.
            >
            > Chris
            >
          • brian nsl
            Des, Like you I tried to access the article via the files menu,each and every one came up, the requested document is not available !!!!! 72, Brian,
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
              Des,
              Like you I tried to access the article via the files menu,each and every one
              came up, ' the requested document is not available ' ' !!!!!
              72, Brian, G0NSL-QRP.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: d29602960
              To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:43 PM
              Subject: [loopantennas] Re: New file uploades to loopantennas.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • greenfruit2002
              Hi, Foxit READER (free) opens the pdf here without any problem. 73, Kjell PB3SM - SM6CPI ... group but each time I download and/or open the pdf files I get the
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                Hi,

                Foxit READER (free) opens the pdf here without any problem.

                73,
                Kjell PB3SM - SM6CPI

                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "d29602960" <d29602960@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Chris and the group,
                >
                > I just downloaded your lates files from the "files" section of this
                group but each time I download and/or open the pdf files I get the
                following error...
                >
                > "Error opening pdf file"
                >
                > All your previous files including those on your web pages
                download/open without error. I wonder, have you changed the software you
                use to create pdf files recently?
                >
                > 73,s to all.
                >
                > Des. (M0AYF)
                >
              • Chris Trask
                ... I uploaded a new copy about an hour ago that was compiled with Acrobat 4.0, so it shouldn t be a problem now. Chris
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                  >
                  > Foxit READER (free) opens the pdf here without any problem.
                  >

                  I uploaded a new copy about an hour ago that was compiled with Acrobat
                  4.0, so it shouldn't be a problem now.

                  Chris
                • brian nsl
                  Chris, Thank you for the reconfiguration , opened no trouble this time both with Foxit and Adobe. 72, Brian, G0NSL-QRP. ... From: Chris Trask To:
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                    Chris,
                    Thank you for the ' reconfiguration ', opened no trouble this time
                    both with Foxit and Adobe.
                    72, Brian, G0NSL-QRP.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Chris Trask
                    To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:43 PM
                    Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Re: New file uploades to loopantennas.




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chris Trask
                    ... Good. Wish I could solve every problem that easily. :{) Chris
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                      >
                      > Thank you for the ' reconfiguration ', opened no trouble this time
                      > both with Foxit and Adobe.
                      >

                      Good. Wish I could solve every problem that easily. :{)

                      Chris
                    • Paul
                      ... A few caveats on Foxit: http://download.cnet.com/Foxit-Reader/3000-10743_4-10313206.html
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                        --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "greenfruit2002" <strom.lime@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > Foxit READER (free) opens the pdf here without any problem.
                        >
                        > 73,
                        > Kjell PB3SM - SM6CPI
                        >

                        A few caveats on Foxit:
                        http://download.cnet.com/Foxit-Reader/3000-10743_4-10313206.html
                      • d29602960
                        Hi again Chris, Brian, Paul and greenfruit2002, Thanks for the re-compiling the Wideband Loop Antenna Amplifier RevA doc. It now opens up with no problems.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 4, 2010
                          Hi again Chris, Brian, Paul and greenfruit2002,

                          Thanks for the re-compiling the "Wideband Loop Antenna Amplifier RevA" doc. It now opens up with no problems.

                          BTW I use Sumatra pdf reader here, its less "bloated" than Acrobat and no "search bars" or spyware etc. Been using it for about 18 months, no problems except for opening pdf's compiled using the latest Adobe products.

                          73,s

                          Des (M0AYF)

                          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Trask" <christrask@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Thank you for the ' reconfiguration ', opened no trouble this time
                          > > both with Foxit and Adobe.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Good. Wish I could solve every problem that easily. :{)
                          >
                          > Chris
                          >
                        • d29602960
                          Hi again Chris, I just read the write-up on the broad band loop amplifier, its very detailed and very clear. it looks as though a good deal of work was
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 4, 2010
                            Hi again Chris,

                            I just read the write-up on the broad band loop amplifier, its very detailed and very clear. it looks as though a good deal of work was involved. I would like to ask a couple of questions relating to the design if I may?

                            The input inductor (L2), would an T37-61 core be a suitable substitute for L2 with 4 turns bi-filer?

                            Neglecting C1/L1 in the revised design for the moment, how much difference in performance results from the use of L2 in the newer design as compared to the trasformer input (similar to T3 and T6) of the earlier design?

                            And finally, just out of curiosity how long does it take to prepare a write-up such as this?

                            73,

                            Des (M0AYF)

                            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Trask" <christrask@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Foxit READER (free) opens the pdf here without any problem.
                            > >
                            >
                            > I uploaded a new copy about an hour ago that was compiled with Acrobat
                            > 4.0, so it shouldn't be a problem now.
                            >
                            > Chris
                            >
                          • Chris Trask
                            ... You can, but the inductance will be much higher due to the higher permeability and size of the core. With larger capacitors for C2 and C3 you can extend
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 4, 2010
                              >
                              > The input inductor (L2), would an T37-61 core be a suitable
                              > substitute for L2 with 4 turns bi-filer?
                              >

                              You can, but the inductance will be much higher due to the higher permeability and size of the core. With larger capacitors for C2 and C3 you can extend the frequency range down to 250kHz, at which time the coupling of T3 dictates the roll-off.

                              >
                              > Neglecting C1/L1 in the revised design for the moment, how much
                              > difference in performance results from the use of L2 in the newer
                              > design as compared to the trasformer input (similar to T3 and T6)
                              > of the earlier design?
                              >

                              Quite a bit, actually. In the original design the input transformer became configured like the present T3. The input impedance was far too high to be suitable for use with a loop, so I conceded to using the coupling capacitors, which was simpler and less expensive that using a 1:1:1:1 transformer.

                              I should mention that L1 can be very easily realized by twisting the wires from the SO-239 connectors to the board for 2-3 turns and then slipping a small toroid or two over that. Really cheap, but provides the same function.

                              >
                              > And finally, just out of curiosity how long does it take to prepare
                              > a write-up such as this?
                              >

                              All together, about a full day. As I go from one write-up to another I borrow portions of previous ones, such as the early section on loop antenna impedance and the following portion on passive augmentation. Some things need to be repeated so that each write-up stands by itself.

                              Chris


                              Regards,
                              Chris
                            • d29602960
                              Hi again Chris, Thanks for the swift reply to my questions relating to L2. Everything is understood now. I had not fully understood the significance of L2 and
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 5, 2010
                                Hi again Chris,

                                Thanks for the swift reply to my questions relating to L2. Everything is understood now.

                                I had not fully understood the significance of L2 and its role in the filtering of I/P signals but after reading your reply and re-reading your write-up its much clearer now.

                                Regards,

                                Des (M0AYF)

                                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Chris Trask <christrask@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > > The input inductor (L2), would an T37-61 core be a suitable
                                > > substitute for L2 with 4 turns bi-filer?
                                > >
                                >
                                > You can, but the inductance will be much higher due to the higher permeability and size of the core. With larger capacitors for C2 and C3 you can extend the frequency range down to 250kHz, at which time the coupling of T3 dictates the roll-off.
                                >
                                > >
                                > > Neglecting C1/L1 in the revised design for the moment, how much
                                > > difference in performance results from the use of L2 in the newer
                                > > design as compared to the trasformer input (similar to T3 and T6)
                                > > of the earlier design?
                                > >
                                >
                                > Quite a bit, actually. In the original design the input transformer became configured like the present T3. The input impedance was far too high to be suitable for use with a loop, so I conceded to using the coupling capacitors, which was simpler and less expensive that using a 1:1:1:1 transformer.
                                >
                                > I should mention that L1 can be very easily realized by twisting the wires from the SO-239 connectors to the board for 2-3 turns and then slipping a small toroid or two over that. Really cheap, but provides the same function.
                                >
                                > >
                                > > And finally, just out of curiosity how long does it take to prepare
                                > > a write-up such as this?
                                > >
                                >
                                > All together, about a full day. As I go from one write-up to another I borrow portions of previous ones, such as the early section on loop antenna impedance and the following portion on passive augmentation. Some things need to be repeated so that each write-up stands by itself.
                                >
                                > Chris
                                >
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                > Chris
                                >
                              • d29602960
                                Hi again Chris, Thanks for the swift reply to my questions relating to L2. Everything is understood now. I had not fully understood the significance of L2 and
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 5, 2010
                                  Hi again Chris,

                                  Thanks for the swift reply to my questions relating to L2. Everything is understood now.

                                  I had not fully understood the significance of L2 and its role in the filtering of I/P signals but after reading your reply and re-reading your write-up its much clearer now.

                                  Regards,

                                  Des (M0AYF)

                                  --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Chris Trask <christrask@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > The input inductor (L2), would an T37-61 core be a suitable
                                  > > substitute for L2 with 4 turns bi-filer?
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > You can, but the inductance will be much higher due to the higher permeability and size of the core. With larger capacitors for C2 and C3 you can extend the frequency range down to 250kHz, at which time the coupling of T3 dictates the roll-off.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > Neglecting C1/L1 in the revised design for the moment, how much
                                  > > difference in performance results from the use of L2 in the newer
                                  > > design as compared to the trasformer input (similar to T3 and T6)
                                  > > of the earlier design?
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Quite a bit, actually. In the original design the input transformer became configured like the present T3. The input impedance was far too high to be suitable for use with a loop, so I conceded to using the coupling capacitors, which was simpler and less expensive that using a 1:1:1:1 transformer.
                                  >
                                  > I should mention that L1 can be very easily realized by twisting the wires from the SO-239 connectors to the board for 2-3 turns and then slipping a small toroid or two over that. Really cheap, but provides the same function.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > And finally, just out of curiosity how long does it take to prepare
                                  > > a write-up such as this?
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > All together, about a full day. As I go from one write-up to another I borrow portions of previous ones, such as the early section on loop antenna impedance and the following portion on passive augmentation. Some things need to be repeated so that each write-up stands by itself.
                                  >
                                  > Chris
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Chris
                                  >
                                • mark
                                  Hi Chris, I m getting ready to put together your Wideband Loop Amp. Before I start winding and soldering, I have a couple of questions: If I use type 73
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 27, 2010
                                    Hi Chris,

                                    I'm getting ready to put together your Wideband Loop Amp. Before I start winding and soldering, I have a couple of questions:

                                    If I use type 73 material for the transformer cores (my interest is NDB DXing), should I adjust the turns count, or stick with what's specified in your document?

                                    For the case of the Q6 JFET, I have no 2N/PN4416 device on hand, but do have several other types. In selecting an alternative, am I correct in thinking that a low goss (output conductance) spec should correlate to a "flatter" drain current curve beyond the transition region?

                                    Thanks again for taking the time to publish your work -- its greatly appreciated.

                                    Mark

                                    --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Trask" <christrask@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Foxit READER (free) opens the pdf here without any problem.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > I uploaded a new copy about an hour ago that was compiled with Acrobat
                                    > 4.0, so it shouldn't be a problem now.
                                    >
                                    > Chris
                                    >
                                  • Chris Trask
                                    ... Since your interest is in lower frequencies, I d say yes to increasing the number of turns. You can get as many as six turns of #32 trifilar in the 2402
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 28, 2010
                                      >
                                      >I'm getting ready to put together your Wideband Loop Amp. Before
                                      >I start winding and soldering, I have a couple of questions:
                                      >
                                      >If I use type 73 material for the transformer cores (my interest
                                      >is NDB DXing), should I adjust the turns count, or stick with
                                      >what's specified in your document?
                                      >

                                      Since your interest is in lower frequencies, I'd say yes to increasing the number of turns. You can get as many as six turns of #32 trifilar in the 2402 augmentation transformer cores (T1, T2, T4, and T5). And then go to eight turns on T3 and T6 for good measure.

                                      You may want to add a low ESR 1uF electrolytic in parallel with C2 and C3 to ensure good coupling at the lower frequencies.

                                      >
                                      >For the case of the Q6 JFET, I have no 2N/PN4416 device on hand,
                                      >but do have several other types. In selecting an alternative, am
                                      >I correct in thinking that a low goss (output conductance) spec
                                      >should correlate to a "flatter" drain current curve beyond the
                                      >transition region?
                                      >

                                      Let's see what you have available. A J309 can be used, but you'll need to adjust R6 to get the desired current.

                                      >
                                      >Thanks again for taking the time to publish your work -- its
                                      >greatly appreciated.
                                      >

                                      I have a small change in the works that will improve the gain by 6dB without adding any parts or changing the supply current. That will be included later when I complete the +50dBm OIP3 version.

                                      Like Howard Cossell used to say: "We keep making it better, not more expensive."

                                      Chris
                                    • Chris Trask
                                      ... I should have mentioned to add a ferrite bead to the base leads of all four transistors to prevent VHF oscillations. Chris
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 28, 2010
                                        >
                                        >I'm getting ready to put together your Wideband Loop Amp. Before
                                        >I start winding and soldering, I have a couple of questions:
                                        >
                                        >If I use type 73 material for the transformer cores (my interest
                                        >is NDB DXing), should I adjust the turns count, or stick with
                                        >what's specified in your document?
                                        >
                                        >For the case of the Q6 JFET, I have no 2N/PN4416 device on hand,
                                        >but do have several other types. In selecting an alternative, am
                                        >I correct in thinking that a low goss (output conductance) spec
                                        >should correlate to a "flatter" drain current curve beyond the
                                        >transition region?
                                        >
                                        >Thanks again for taking the time to publish your work -- its
                                        >greatly appreciated.
                                        >

                                        I should have mentioned to add a ferrite bead to the base leads of all four transistors to prevent VHF oscillations.

                                        Chris
                                      • mark
                                        Thanks Chris, The FETs I have on hand for Q6 are the J113, J304, 2N4393, and a bunch of 2N3819s. Also just found an NTE 312, which is supposed to be the NTE
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 28, 2010
                                          Thanks Chris,

                                          The FETs I have on hand for Q6 are the J113, J304, 2N4393, and a bunch of 2N3819s. Also just found an NTE 312, which is supposed to be the NTE replacement part for the PN4416. I'll put socket pins in the board so I can try different ones. I'll definitely have a pot for R6.

                                          Looking forward to seeing your improved version.

                                          Mark

                                          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Chris Trask <christrask@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >I'm getting ready to put together your Wideband Loop Amp. Before
                                          > >I start winding and soldering, I have a couple of questions:
                                          > >
                                          > >If I use type 73 material for the transformer cores (my interest
                                          > >is NDB DXing), should I adjust the turns count, or stick with
                                          > >what's specified in your document?
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > Since your interest is in lower frequencies, I'd say yes to increasing the number of turns. You can get as many as six turns of #32 trifilar in the 2402 augmentation transformer cores (T1, T2, T4, and T5). And then go to eight turns on T3 and T6 for good measure.
                                          >
                                          > You may want to add a low ESR 1uF electrolytic in parallel with C2 and C3 to ensure good coupling at the lower frequencies.
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >For the case of the Q6 JFET, I have no 2N/PN4416 device on hand,
                                          > >but do have several other types. In selecting an alternative, am
                                          > >I correct in thinking that a low goss (output conductance) spec
                                          > >should correlate to a "flatter" drain current curve beyond the
                                          > >transition region?
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > Let's see what you have available. A J309 can be used, but you'll need to adjust R6 to get the desired current.
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >Thanks again for taking the time to publish your work -- its
                                          > >greatly appreciated.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > I have a small change in the works that will improve the gain by 6dB without adding any parts or changing the supply current. That will be included later when I complete the +50dBm OIP3 version.
                                          >
                                          > Like Howard Cossell used to say: "We keep making it better, not more expensive."
                                          >
                                          > Chris
                                          >
                                        • dannibou
                                          Hi Chris I wrote to you via the link at the right of the message but haven t get any reply from you. I suppose your connection is blocked? Anyway, I just would
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 29, 2010
                                            Hi Chris
                                            I wrote to you via the link at the right of the message but haven't get any reply from you. I suppose your connection is blocked? Anyway, I just would like to know if an adjustable telescopic antenna like those that are used on car (electric) could be used with an preamp for 100kHz up to about 1.8 mHz, my main band interest. Here, we have only one local AM broadcast station located at about 15 miles away with a power of 50kW. Of course, night reception bring a lot of powerful station from the US. Why use an electric telescoping antenna? To adjust the gain, I used to use AM car radio and found that the more I extend the antenna, the more I get gain. Any suggestion for me? Thanks
                                            Danny
                                          • vbifyz
                                            Hi Danny, Interestingly, an old car radio is the best receiver to use with a short whip. Its input is already designed for such kind of antenna, and you can
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 29, 2010
                                              Hi Danny,

                                              Interestingly, an old car radio is the best receiver to use with a short whip. Its input is already designed for such kind of antenna, and you can get it for close to free. And it works great if you are far from electrical noise.
                                              However, if you want to reduce noise or to null out one station to listen to another on the same frequency, you need a loop.
                                              My opinion is that tuned loop is better for DX listening on MW band. As a bonus, you can reduce the gain by detuning.
                                              A broadband loop or a whip is a must for SDR which looks at a big chunk of spectrum.

                                              73, Mike

                                              --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "dannibou" <dannibou@...> wrote:

                                              >
                                            • dannibou
                                              ... Hi Mike. I agree with you but I ve noticed that recent digital car radio has excellent sensitivity and selectivity. The latest I ve tried are original car
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Aug 29, 2010
                                                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "vbifyz" <3ym3ym@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi Danny,
                                                >
                                                > Interestingly, an old car radio is the best receiver to use with a short whip. Its input is already designed for such kind of antenna, and you can get it for close to free. And it works great if you are far from electrical noise.

                                                Hi Mike. I agree with you but I've noticed that recent digital car radio has excellent sensitivity and selectivity. The latest I've tried are original car radio from an corolla 1997 and an echo 2005. Both have surprised me in both sensitivity and selectivity but they suffered from adjacent channel rejection. I tried a 102 inch CB antenna on the 1997 model and the results were amazing. I also tried to put a 230 mH coil in between the antenna and it's base. Even if I was in a no noise location, the noise increased, especially on the higher part of the AM band.


                                                > However, if you want to reduce noise or to null out one station to listen to another on the same frequency, you need a loop.
                                                > My opinion is that tuned loop is better for DX listening on MW band. As a bonus, you can reduce the gain by detuning.

                                                I used to use loop antenna in my house with great results. I also tried ferrite antenna with pre-amp and results were very good.

                                                > A broadband loop or a whip is a must for SDR which looks at a big chunk of spectrum.
                                                >
                                                > 73, Mike

                                                Sorry for my ignorance, but what mean SDR? Thanks
                                                Danny
                                              • vbifyz
                                                Software Defined Radio. Some SDR receivers can record the whole MW band at once for later analysis.
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Aug 29, 2010
                                                  Software Defined Radio.
                                                  Some SDR receivers can record the whole MW band at once for later analysis.

                                                  --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "dannibou" <dannibou@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >

                                                  >
                                                  > Sorry for my ignorance, but what mean SDR? Thanks
                                                  > Danny
                                                  >
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