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Re: LCR meter

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  • c6alk
    Hi Mike and Gang: I own and use both the AADE and a cheap Chinese import model as described. The advantage of the Chinese model is that it will measure larger
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 21, 2009
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      Hi Mike and Gang:

      I own and use both the AADE and a cheap Chinese import model as described. The advantage of the Chinese model is that it will measure larger inductors that might be used at audio frequencies, switching power supplies etc. The AADE is more accurate, as it uses a higher test frequency. I have often been quite impressed with the overall measuring qualities of the AADE. What is the measurement difference of the two units at HF? That is vary hard to quantify. There are just too many factors involved. I do a lot of building here, so the AADE unit has been a very worthwhile purchase for me. I use both units as required by the use at that moment.

      Brian K7RE


      --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Mike-WE0H <we0h@...> wrote:
      >
      > I own one of those AADE meters but how well does this import meter function? Sure a nice price and seems like a lot of the recent Chinese electronics is high quality with super affordable prices.
      >
      > Mike
      > WE0H
      >
      >
      > > From: gmcjetpilot
      > > That is a cool tool and web site.
      > >
      > > I bought an el-cheapo Capacitance/Inductance/Ohms and
      > > NPN/PNP transistor tester off of ebay for $21 total. They
      > > are Chinese made and sold off of ebay. I am sure the unit
      > > you recommend is better.
      > >
      > > Seach eBay for:
      > >
      > > LCR RCL INDUCTANCE CAPACITANCE RESISTANCE METER W/Leads
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > "capntripps2000" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I use the LCR meter I bought from:
      > > >
      > > >  http://www.aade.com/
      > > >
      > > > It works great, is low cost enough, and has been very
      > > handy for my antenna projects.
      > > >
      > > > Andrew
      >
    • Mike-WE0H
      I think it would be worthwhile, like you, to own both meters. That Chinese meter is so affordable. Good to hear that it works well for you. I will be ordering
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 21, 2009
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        I think it would be worthwhile, like you, to own both meters. That Chinese meter is so affordable. Good to hear that it works well for you. I will be ordering one when I return home. I use my AADE meter almost daily. A guy can never have enough tools or test equipment...hi hi

        Mike
        WE0H


        > From: c6alk
        > Hi Mike and Gang:
        >
        >    I own and use both the AADE and a cheap
        > Chinese import model as described. The advantage of the
        > Chinese model is that it will measure larger inductors that
        > might be used at audio frequencies, switching power supplies
        > etc. The AADE is more accurate, as it uses a higher test
        > frequency. I have often been quite impressed with the
        > overall measuring qualities of the AADE. What is the
        > measurement difference of the two units at HF?  That is
        > vary hard to quantify. There are just too many factors
        > involved. I do a lot of building here, so the AADE unit has
        > been a very worthwhile purchase for me.  I use both
        > units as required by the use at that moment.
        >
        > Brian K7RE
      • gmcjetpilot
        I ll tell you this. The first Chinese electronics I bought was about 2 years ago AND COULD NOT BE HAPPIER. I got a Degen DE1103 portable SW radio ($80), 100Khz
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 21, 2009
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          I'll tell you this. The first Chinese electronics I bought was about
          2 years ago AND COULD NOT BE HAPPIER. I got a Degen DE1103 portable
          SW radio ($80), 100Khz to 29.99Mhz plus the BEST FM STEREO SOUND I
          HAVE EVER HEARD (with headset). The radio has a single speaker and is
          super compact, so for stereo FM you need cans. I use Sennheiser HD280
          Pro's. The Best stereo I have heard with fantastic sensitivity and
          range. We all think BIG is better with SWL or Ham gear. This is ONE
          of the best RADIOS you can buy for under $600. IT IS THE BEST RADIO
          BAR NONE YOU CAN BUY FOR UNDER $100. It beats all the radios in my
          opinion in the same category at four or five times the money. This
          is common wisdom among SWL fans who use portable radios, the DE1103
          (or KA1103) is a winner.

          The DE1103 can be held in one hand, runs on batteries for almost 10
          hours and has self contained antennas (a very long telescopic antenna
          and loop stick). The DE1103 plugged into an external antenna, like
          the active loop I bought at the same time for $20, the TG34,
          performance is very close to the RX320D on a random wire. The TG34 is
          a generic version of the Kaito KA33 and Degen 31MS. They go for $30
          but got a deal on mine with the radio. AMAZING PERFORMANCE AND UNDER
          $100. The Degen DE1103 also comes in the Kaito KA1103 brand, which is
          the US import name brand.


          The Chinese often throw in extras. The DE1103 came with 4 NiMh AA's,
          wall-wart power supply (which charges the batteries inside the
          radio), 30 foot wire antenna, storage bag. I got the radio, optional
          TG34 antenna and optional leatherette soft storage case for about
          $100.


          I also find the Chinese eBay vendors responsive and cooperative.
          Their English is actually pretty good. You get some Engl-nese some
          times, but they are cooperative. The LC meter I got had a yellow
          rubber cover. The picture showed blue. I was not too upset, but I
          wrote them to just point that out for the future. They gave me 10%
          off the already low price.


          Shipping time may be a little long but not bad. You just can't expect
          it in 2 days. Depending on what it is, it can take more than a week.
          I really forget how long things take. What I can tell you, I get
          stuff faster from China than Canada! Orders from Canada can take
          forever.


          I bought some NiMh batteries. I have got great deals on charger and
          battery packages. The battery performance is GOOD and compared to Wal-
          Mart, it is 1/4th the price (including shipping). I bought some
          3000mAh Ni-Mh knowing it was not likely to be that much. Well I have
          no idea what their capacity is. I doubt 3000 but they work well. I
          find they are getting better with time. I may need a better charger
          that does some fancy higher voltage cycle. Regardless they are a
          steal at twice or three times the price.


          Since buying the above radio and batteries, I bought a LC
          capacitance/inductance meter and oscilloscope probes. Build and
          performance are good. Fantastic lab quality accuracy gear built to
          last decades under heavy use? No. Serviceable and accurate enough?
          Yes, especially at the price.


          I have a friend who bought a bench Freq counter for less than $100.
          It looks very nice. It came out of Hong Kong. I got a used HP Freq
          counter for less, but his has way more features. Accuracy? I don't
          know but I bet it's GOOD ENOUGH for radio work. They have a bunch of
          hand-held battery powered antenna based freq counters as well, which
          intrigues me; they go for about $50-$60.


          Signal Gens. Another friend bought a Chinese S/gen; it is nice. They
          go for about $120 total. When it comes to basic signal/audio Gens you
          have limited choices. You can buy a boat-anchor, big tube job.
          Nothing wrong with them, but chances are you'll need to "Re-Cap" it &
          celebrate it. Also they need to warm up to get good accuracy and min
          drift. Than there are solid state signal Gens. Cost of a used signal
          gens can go from $60 to $12,000. I have never used the China made
          signal gen, but I am sure they are fine. I'd hope it would not need
          repair, but if they come with schematics and parts list (generic not
          proprietary), I wouldn't worry about it.


          What I would like to see is a cheap modern task specific sweep/marker
          signal Gens for radio alignment work (I.F. of 455Khz and 10.7Mhz). It
          is hard to find good stuff that works. Either you need some rocks
          (Crystals, Xtal) or the sweep/marker is for other higher freq
          applications. The old good gear is hard to find at a good price. Even
          than chances are it will need to be fully restored, caps, resistors
          and so on.


          Tube Audio AMPS: The Chinese have a few Valve amps I lust after. I
          have been SO TEMPTED to buy one. They sell them for less than what I
          could make one for from parts. The sound is very good from what I
          read, but some times they need some small modifications to really
          make them sound fantastic. However overall they're bargains. For the
          money the Chinese Tube amps are clearly a deal. I have heard only a
          few complaints about build quality. Some have said there were extra
          parts in the amp, not in the schematics on a few models. Some models
          are fine out of the box. Some need a few mods. All of them end up
          sounding fantastic from what I read about them. $400-$500 Chinese
          tube amps compare to tube amps which cost $2000-$12,000). Of course I
          think it is crazy to spend thousands on a stereo amp of any kind, but
          than I am not an Audiophile (fool with money who thinks they have a
          golden ear and spend $100's or $1000's extra if the word Audiophile
          is added). Who am I to say how people should spend their money.


          Bottom line on Chinese test gear. Research, shop around and ask
          questions. Also the Chinese undercut each other. Right now the LC
          meter I have is flooding eBay. Some go for Buy Me Now $20 total, some
          $24. They have other makes that go for $30-$40 that might be better.
          If you spend a little more you can get a DMM/DVM combined with a LC
          meter that reads volts, ohms and temperature as well!

          PS I have seen some color storage oscilloscopes as well.


          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Mike-WE0H <we0h@...> wrote:
          >
          > I own one of those AADE meters but how well does this import meter function? Sure a nice price and seems like a lot of the recent Chinese electronics is high quality with super affordable prices.
          >
          > Mike
          > WE0H
        • Art
          The AADE is tough to beat, I have one. It eats batteries because I always leave it on after measurements are made. The meter works great, the battery problem
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 24, 2009
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            The AADE is tough to beat, I have one. It eats batteries because I
            always leave it on after measurements are made. The meter works
            great, the battery problem is operator error I suppose::>

            Be aware that some inexpensive meters don't cover the low and high
            capacitance/inductance ranges well. And, all will be marginally
            useful on toroidal (or any other type of coil that uses anything
            other than air dielectric). The error can be significant. This
            happens with all capacitors and inductors unless they use air
            dielectric, although capacitors are less affected than inductors.
            Basically, you need to measure the inductance/capacitance at the
            frequency you will use it at. For instance, a given toroidal inductor
            that measures 10 uH on the AADE (at 10 KHz) will actually be 14 uH
            when you test it at 3.7 MHz. It's always best to measure toroidal
            inductors at the frequency where they will be used, not at audio frequencies.

            Even non-air dielectric capacitors vary in capacitance as the
            frequency changes, although not quite so much as toroidal inductors
            do. I recently became interested in making capacitors for my own use,
            and had a tough time finding frequency characterization data for teflon.

            Also note that all capacitors vary in capacitance when biased with a
            dc voltage, especially electrolytic and tantalum. And, inductors vary
            as the dc current passing through them changes.

            Regards,

            Art



            >In the past we have seen threads in this or other groups about
            >buying or building LCR meters to measure the values of components to
            >be used for building antennas. Ready made items or kits have been
            >mentioned and circuit diagrams heve been made available.
            >Recently I came across an approach by ON7YD that makes use of very
            >simple hardware, a few resistors and capacitors and PCV software
            >that uses the sound card in the PC. I have not tried it yet, so I
            >cannot support the claims, but I think you would like to know ande
            >decide for yourselves.
            >
            >Go to:
            ><http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/>http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/
            >
            >select "software"and then scroll down to: "LCR meter".
            >
            >You could go there directly through:
            ><http://www.rcl-meter.strobbe.eu/>http://www.rcl-meter.strobbe.eu/
            >
            >But then you will miss a large amount of other radio and antenna
            >related material.
            >
            >regards,
            >
            >Cor Beijersbergen


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Paul V Birke PEng
            no doubt Art one of the best it is the only one I have I have left the switch on also but it is me not the thingie best wishes Paul in Guelph ON VE3PVB
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 25, 2009
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              no doubt Art one of the best
              it is the only one I have
              I have left the switch on also
              but it is me not the thingie
              best wishes
              Paul in Guelph ON
              VE3PVB




              ________________________________
              From: Art <KY1K@...>
              To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 2:23:40 AM
              Subject: Re: [loopantennas] LCR meter


              The AADE is tough to beat, I have one. It eats batteries because I
              always leave it on after measurements are made. The meter works
              great, the battery problem is operator error I suppose::>

              Be aware that some inexpensive meters don't cover the low and high
              capacitance/ inductance ranges well. And, all will be marginally
              useful on toroidal (or any other type of coil that uses anything
              other than air dielectric). The error can be significant. This
              happens with all capacitors and inductors unless they use air
              dielectric, although capacitors are less affected than inductors.
              Basically, you need to measure the inductance/capacita nce at the
              frequency you will use it at. For instance, a given toroidal inductor
              that measures 10 uH on the AADE (at 10 KHz) will actually be 14 uH
              when you test it at 3.7 MHz. It's always best to measure toroidal
              inductors at the frequency where they will be used, not at audio frequencies.

              Even non-air dielectric capacitors vary in capacitance as the
              frequency changes, although not quite so much as toroidal inductors
              do. I recently became interested in making capacitors for my own use,
              and had a tough time finding frequency characterization data for teflon.

              Also note that all capacitors vary in capacitance when biased with a
              dc voltage, especially electrolytic and tantalum. And, inductors vary
              as the dc current passing through them changes.

              Regards,

              Art

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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