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Okay, a new loop believer!

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  • Bill
    At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice little radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually fool the radio into starting at 0 khz
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 31, 2009
      At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice little
      radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually 'fool' the radio into
      starting at 0 khz and working up in frequency using an easy software
      'hack' but the lower khz segments below MW seem to have some
      'overload' from local stations if using either a long wire or anything
      other than the internal ferrite antenna.

      The neat thing about the radio is that IF you plug in an external
      antenna, both the AM ferrite antenna and the telescoping SW antenna
      are disconnected in favor of the external. Sooo, I decided to build a
      little loop antenna and see if it made a difference.

      I had on hand a wire spool for some ham coax (I am a ham op - KC9CS)
      and took the spool apart because it had a nice sturdy 9" cardboard
      tube. I cut about 2" off the tube and used this for my loop form. I
      had some twin speaker line with tiny, probably 22 gauge wire which I
      split lengthwise. It is solid core wire. I wound 22 turns of this on
      the 9" tube. For a capacitor I had four small, identical 100pf
      variable capacitors that I wired together, not wanting to pirate my
      365pf variables from either of my crystal sets. I wired up the input
      cable and tried the new loop this afternoon about 5 pm, the sun was
      still up here in west central Florida.

      My first station I pulled in was in Atlanta! A full 500 miles distant
      and still daylight. WOW! Now that it is evening, I'm experimenting and
      listening with it starting at the low end of the MW band. WSM is an
      easy catch from Nashville at 650 khz, which is about at far as I've
      scanned yet. DX'ing from Florida is kind of tough because we get a LOT
      of spanish stations from who knows where. Mexico is just across the
      Gulf of Mexico, lots of spanish speaking Caribbean Islands too. What
      impresses me with this antenna is how well it is regarding
      directivity. Turn the antenna slowly and the signal drops out, another
      pops up. Turn it back and the noise disappears, the desired station
      jumps back in. I haven't noticed a lot of difference using the
      capacitors yet, but I've only played with this antenna for about an
      hour so far. I'm sure as I gain experience it will improve. Something
      else dawned on me too....I don't remember paying much attention to
      linking those 4 capacitors together -- whether they were all series
      linked or series-paralleled. That WOULD make a difference, but
      tomorrow will be time enough. In the meantime, I am amazed at the way
      this little loop works.

      bill
      KC9CS
    • Samuel Ernst-Fortin
      ... Go loops! Right, I believe that if the capacitors are wired in parallel, the equivalent capacitance is the sum of the individual capacitors, i.e. Ceq = C1
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
        Bill wrote:
        >>
        >>I don't remember paying much attention to
        >>linking those 4 capacitors together -- whether they were all series
        >>linked or series-paralleled. That WOULD make a difference, but
        >>tomorrow will be time enough. In the meantime, I am amazed at the way
        >>this little loop works.
        >>

        Go loops!

        Right, I believe that if the capacitors are wired in parallel, the equivalent capacitance is the sum of the individual capacitors,
        i.e. Ceq = C1 + C2 + ... Cn

        If the capacitors are wired in series, the reciprocal of the equivalent capacitance is equal to the sum of the reciprocals of each individual capacitor,
        i.e. 1/Ceq = 1/C1 + 1/C2 +... 1/Cn

        You are right, there should be a big difference in your results depending on how they are wired together.
      • gmcjetpilot
        Not busting your chops Bill, you may be right, but....Are you sure BILL about the internal loop stick being cut out with the antenna input? I don t think so (I
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
          Not busting your chops Bill, you may be right, but....Are you sure
          BILL about the internal loop stick being cut out with the antenna
          input? I don't think so (I have a Degen 1103). On page 26 it says:

          "If FM or SW reception is too weak, use supplied extra- long
          external antenna to improve reception."

          I assume it does not mention MW. Here is the user manual.
          http://www.dpmega.com.hk/usermanual/e1103.pdf

          The manual says SW is from 1710 to 29999 khz. You are correct you can
          trick it to go below MW, but I did not know it would go below 100
          Khz. How do you do that.

          Also your antenna sounds cool, nice, could you take some pics & draw
          a diagram and post it in the pictures section. Thanks George


          > At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice
          little
          > radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually 'fool' the radio
          into
          > starting at 0 khz and working up in frequency using an easy software
          > 'hack' but the lower khz segments below MW seem to have some
          > 'overload' from local stations if using either a long wire or
          anything
          > other than the internal ferrite antenna.
          >
          > The neat thing about the radio is that IF you plug in an external
          > antenna, both the AM ferrite antenna and the telescoping SW antenna
          > are disconnected in favor of the external.
        • Darren Hennig
          Bill: My 1103 does not disconnect my MW ferrite internal antenna. What vintage is your radio? Darren VE6IZ [Non-text portions of this message have been
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
            Bill:

            My 1103 does not disconnect my MW ferrite internal antenna. What vintage is your radio?

            Darren
            VE6IZ

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Samuel Ernst-Fortin
            Trick to tune the Degen 1103 down below 100Khz: http://www.rosestone.me.uk/Degen/VLF.txt This suggests the unit does some auto-selection/de-selection of the
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
              Trick to tune the Degen 1103 down below 100Khz:
              http://www.rosestone.me.uk/Degen/VLF.txt

              This suggests the unit does some auto-selection/de-selection of the Ferrite Rod Antenna based on what and how it is tuned. If someone had a schematic, one could determine if the external antenna input jack has a contact which opens or closes with the insertion of the plug.



              ________________________________
              From: gmcjetpilot <gmcjetpilot@...>
              To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:05:32 AM
              Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Okay, a new loop believer!


              Not busting your chops Bill, you may be right, but....Are you sure
              BILL about the internal loop stick being cut out with the antenna
              input? I don't think so (I have a Degen 1103). On page 26 it says:

              "If FM or SW reception is too weak, use supplied extra- long
              external antenna to improve reception."

              I assume it does not mention MW. Here is the user manual.
              http://www.dpmega com.hk/usermanua l/e1103.pdf

              The manual says SW is from 1710 to 29999 khz. You are correct you can
              trick it to go below MW, but I did not know it would go below 100
              Khz. How do you do that.

              Also your antenna sounds cool, nice, could you take some pics & draw
              a diagram and post it in the pictures section. Thanks George

              > At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice
              little
              > radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually 'fool' the radio
              into
              > starting at 0 khz and working up in frequency using an easy software
              > 'hack' but the lower khz segments below MW seem to have some
              > 'overload' from local stations if using either a long wire or
              anything
              > other than the internal ferrite antenna.
              >
              > The neat thing about the radio is that IF you plug in an external
              > antenna, both the AM ferrite antenna and the telescoping SW antenna
              > are disconnected in favor of the external.






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gmcjetpilot
              Bill I double checked and I was right, the Antenna plug is for SW (and FM) only on the Degan 1103, however you can boost the internal MW loop stick by a
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
                Bill I double checked and I was right, the Antenna plug is for SW
                (and FM) only on the Degan 1103, however you can boost the internal
                MW loop stick by a repeater or proximity loop boost.

                I have tired it with the Tecsun AN-200 and Terk AM advantage (simular
                9" loops). It works well. However the stock loop stick with out help
                is pretty amazing.

                The Degen DE31 or similar portable amplified loop has a loop stick
                booster. It works pretty well with the DE 1103. I found the loop
                stick to be on the back near the base of the telescoping antenna.

                When I use the loop stick booster of the Degen DE31 portable antenna
                (or similar), I fold the telescopic antenna up and lay the booster in
                that little recess near the base of the telescopic antenna.

                What I found is the the existing loop stick does pretty well on its
                own on MW. Of all the portable radios the DE 1103 gets the least
                benefit of an external LOOP booster. The DE 1103 with built in
                antennas is a great performer with out help. The design is pretty
                solid as is. I have compared it in stock form to other radios with an
                external loop and the DE 1103 holds it own. Cheers



                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <harpman54@...> wrote:
                >
                > At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice
                little
                > radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually 'fool' the radio
                into
                > starting at 0 khz and working up in frequency using an easy software
                > 'hack' but the lower khz segments below MW seem to have some
                > 'overload' from local stations if using either a long wire or
                anything
                > other than the internal ferrite antenna.
                >
                > The neat thing about the radio is that IF you plug in an external
                > antenna, both the AM ferrite antenna and the telescoping SW antenna
                > are disconnected in favor of the external. Sooo, I decided to build
                a
                > little loop antenna and see if it made a difference.
                >> bill
                > KC9CS
                >
              • Bill
                gmcjet pilot, Here s a bit from over on the Kaito 1103 group (still applies to the Degen 1103: QUOTE: Re: Question About 1103 (message number 337) I ve had the
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 1, 2009
                  gmcjet pilot,
                  Here's a bit from over on the Kaito 1103 group (still applies to the
                  Degen 1103: QUOTE: Re: Question About 1103 (message number 337)

                  I've had the 1103 and the 1102 for several years - I recall that there
                  was at one time, early in this group and "programmable" mode that
                  changed that external antenna input so that as an example if you
                  plugged an external antenna in while the radio was in the AM mode, it
                  would disconnect the internal antenna and function off that external
                  hookup.

                  Mine operates that way and it is very evident when tuning in DX AM
                  stations. While I did that mod I also did the program mod that
                  allowed for using those frequencies just above the normal AM band,
                  because I was interested in the listening to 160 meters in SSB.

                  Don /Unquote

                  Having said that, HERE is the programming 'hack' I mentioned that
                  allows tuning below 530khz and above 1700khz AND bypasses the AM
                  ferrite antenna for the external antennna. This information is from
                  http://www.rosestone.me.uk/Degen/VLF.txt :

                  Quote: It is possible to tune the 1103 receivers below 100kHz, and to
                  disconnect the internal ferrite rod antenna on MW + LW, by using
                  this simple procedure with the SCAN function.

                  Normally, a 'scan' will remain within the selected band, with
                  the tuning scale showing progress through the band. If you start
                  a scan from outside a band, the scan will become 'trapped' within
                  the next band that is reached. However, starting between 1 & 9kHz
                  above any band upper edge and scanning down, will bypass the 'band'
                  system, and will not switch to the ferrite rod in the range 1710 -
                  100kHz. The tuning will also continue below 100kHz.

                  So, select 1711 by direct entry:
                  [1] [7] [1] [1] [band+/AM]
                  and scan down: hold [BAND-] for 2 seconds.
                  As soon as the frequency is below 1710kHz you can stop the scan and
                  use the rotary control, or you can let the scan continue below 100kHz.
                  The antenna is now switched for the telescopic or external antenna.
                  I suggest you tune it down to zero and store this in preset 0, or
                  store 99kHz in preset 99. Also store any frequencies for which you
                  wish to use the external antenna input. You can store any frequency
                  with the [SSB] mode 'on' for CW reception.
                  Once you tune above 1710 again, the system will revert to the normal
                  tuning range with the ferrite rod for MW + LW. (my note: this is NOT
                  true IF you start the radio using the preset memory channel and tune
                  with the thumbwheel. IF you punch in a direct entry frequency it
                  reverts back to the ferrite rod however. If I start in memory 99
                  channel and start tuning with the jogwheel tuning (thumbwheel) I can
                  tune ALL the way to 30Mhz non-stop.)
                  ===========================================
                  There has been a suggestion that you must start the scan at 21951kHz
                  because that was the designer's employee number, but that story is
                  apocryphal!
                  ===========================================
                  There is another procedure at http://mods.radioscanner.ru/degen/mod29/
                  for tuning above 30MHz (AM), possibly up to 35 - 37MHz depending on
                  hardware alignment. UNQUOTE.

                  So, it IS possible to use the Degen/Kaito 1103's with a loop antenna
                  for LW and MW modes. With a simple software hack performed once and
                  stored, you can tune below or above the 'listed or advertised' ranges
                  of the radio. By the way, there is a spreadsheet out there that shows
                  all 22 (10 hidden) bands the 1103 radio will cover. I also have the
                  Degen 1102, the hack worked on very early models, and the software was
                  apparently changed. But the 1103's definitely will use this hack.
                  Both are remarkable radios.
                  Regards,
                  Bill
                  KC9CS

                  --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "gmcjetpilot" <gmcjetpilot@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Bill I double checked and I was right, the Antenna plug is for SW
                  > (and FM) only on the Degan 1103, however you can boost the internal
                  > MW loop stick by a repeater or proximity loop boost.
                  >
                  > I have tired it with the Tecsun AN-200 and Terk AM advantage (simular
                  > 9" loops). It works well. However the stock loop stick with out help
                  > is pretty amazing.
                  >
                  > The Degen DE31 or similar portable amplified loop has a loop stick
                  > booster. It works pretty well with the DE 1103. I found the loop
                  > stick to be on the back near the base of the telescoping antenna.
                  >
                  > When I use the loop stick booster of the Degen DE31 portable antenna
                  > (or similar), I fold the telescopic antenna up and lay the booster in
                  > that little recess near the base of the telescopic antenna.
                  >
                  > What I found is the the existing loop stick does pretty well on its
                  > own on MW. Of all the portable radios the DE 1103 gets the least
                  > benefit of an external LOOP booster. The DE 1103 with built in
                  > antennas is a great performer with out help. The design is pretty
                  > solid as is. I have compared it in stock form to other radios with an
                  > external loop and the DE 1103 holds it own. Cheers
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <harpman54@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice
                  > little
                  > > radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually 'fool' the radio
                  > into
                  > > starting at 0 khz and working up in frequency using an easy software
                  > > 'hack' but the lower khz segments below MW seem to have some
                  > > 'overload' from local stations if using either a long wire or
                  > anything
                  > > other than the internal ferrite antenna.
                  > >
                  > > The neat thing about the radio is that IF you plug in an external
                  > > antenna, both the AM ferrite antenna and the telescoping SW antenna
                  > > are disconnected in favor of the external. Sooo, I decided to build
                  > a
                  > > little loop antenna and see if it made a difference.
                  > >> bill
                  > > KC9CS
                  > >
                  >
                • gmcjetpilot
                  Bill, I tried it and it worked! It did allow external antenna connection on MW, awesome. Thanks. For $80 the Kaito/Degen 1103 is an amazing deal, thanks George
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 2, 2009
                    Bill, I tried it and it worked! It did allow external antenna
                    connection on MW, awesome. Thanks. For $80 the Kaito/Degen 1103 is an
                    amazing deal, thanks George


                    > So, select 1711 by direct entry:
                    > [1] [7] [1] [1] [band+/AM]
                    > and scan down: hold [BAND-] for 2 seconds.
                    > As soon as the frequency is below 1710kHz you can stop the scan and
                    > use the rotary control, or you can let the scan continue below
                    > 100kHz. The antenna is now switched for the telescopic or external
                    > antenna.
                    > > >> bill
                    > > > KC9CS
                  • airchecklover
                    Hey Bill - SOunds like you are having fun. I ve had great results w/ a multi-turn loop on BCB w/ the 1103. Even barefoot it is an amazing performer. BTW, it
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 2, 2009
                      Hey Bill - SOunds like you are having fun. I've had great results w/ a
                      multi-turn loop on BCB w/ the 1103. Even barefoot it is an amazing
                      performer. BTW, it still throws me for a 'loop' (sorry:) to see a 9
                      callsign from Florida.

                      -Mark (former WB9AQI - licensed in the 60s-70s)

                      -=============================


                      --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <harpman54@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > At my bedside I have a Degen 1103 radio, actually a really nice little
                      > radio that has MW and SW bands. You can actually 'fool' the radio into
                      > starting at 0 khz and working up in frequency using an easy software
                      > 'hack' but the lower khz segments below MW seem to have some
                      > 'overload' from local stations if using either a long wire or anything
                      > other than the internal ferrite antenna.
                      >
                      > The neat thing about the radio is that IF you plug in an external
                      > antenna, both the AM ferrite antenna and the telescoping SW antenna
                      > are disconnected in favor of the external. Sooo, I decided to build a
                      > little loop antenna and see if it made a difference.
                      >
                      > I had on hand a wire spool for some ham coax (I am a ham op - KC9CS)
                      > and took the spool apart because it had a nice sturdy 9" cardboard
                      > tube. I cut about 2" off the tube and used this for my loop form. I
                      > had some twin speaker line with tiny, probably 22 gauge wire which I
                      > split lengthwise. It is solid core wire. I wound 22 turns of this on
                      > the 9" tube. For a capacitor I had four small, identical 100pf
                      > variable capacitors that I wired together, not wanting to pirate my
                      > 365pf variables from either of my crystal sets. I wired up the input
                      > cable and tried the new loop this afternoon about 5 pm, the sun was
                      > still up here in west central Florida.
                      >
                      > My first station I pulled in was in Atlanta! A full 500 miles distant
                      > and still daylight. WOW! Now that it is evening, I'm experimenting and
                      > listening with it starting at the low end of the MW band. WSM is an
                      > easy catch from Nashville at 650 khz, which is about at far as I've
                      > scanned yet. DX'ing from Florida is kind of tough because we get a LOT
                      > of spanish stations from who knows where. Mexico is just across the
                      > Gulf of Mexico, lots of spanish speaking Caribbean Islands too. What
                      > impresses me with this antenna is how well it is regarding
                      > directivity. Turn the antenna slowly and the signal drops out, another
                      > pops up. Turn it back and the noise disappears, the desired station
                      > jumps back in. I haven't noticed a lot of difference using the
                      > capacitors yet, but I've only played with this antenna for about an
                      > hour so far. I'm sure as I gain experience it will improve. Something
                      > else dawned on me too....I don't remember paying much attention to
                      > linking those 4 capacitors together -- whether they were all series
                      > linked or series-paralleled. That WOULD make a difference, but
                      > tomorrow will be time enough. In the meantime, I am amazed at the way
                      > this little loop works.
                      >
                      > bill
                      > KC9CS
                      >
                    • Bill
                      Hey George, I m glad you got it to work. Sharing these ideas is what this forum is all about. I learned a lot coming here, it s nice to be able to reciprocate.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 5, 2009
                        Hey George,
                        I'm glad you got it to work. Sharing these ideas is what this forum is
                        all about. I learned a lot coming here, it's nice to be able to
                        reciprocate. And you're right, it just makes that radio all the more
                        versatile. Being able to connect an external antenna to the MW and LW
                        frequencies brings a LOT of new listening available.

                        bill


                        --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "gmcjetpilot" <gmcjetpilot@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Bill, I tried it and it worked! It did allow external antenna
                        > connection on MW, awesome. Thanks. For $80 the Kaito/Degen 1103 is an
                        > amazing deal, thanks George
                        >
                        >
                        > > So, select 1711 by direct entry:
                        > > [1] [7] [1] [1] [band+/AM]
                        > > and scan down: hold [BAND-] for 2 seconds.
                        > > As soon as the frequency is below 1710kHz you can stop the scan and
                        > > use the rotary control, or you can let the scan continue below
                        > > 100kHz. The antenna is now switched for the telescopic or external
                        > > antenna.
                        > > > >> bill
                        > > > > KC9CS
                        >
                      • Bill
                        Vintage? I don t know other than to tell you that I ve had it about 1 year. Couldn t find a serial number on it, it may be inside the battery compartment but I
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 5, 2009
                          Vintage? I don't know other than to tell you that I've had it about 1
                          year. Couldn't find a serial number on it, it may be inside the
                          battery compartment but I didnt' want to remove the batteries and then
                          have to reset the clock and such, worried it'd remove my frequency
                          memories.

                          bill

                          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Darren Hennig" <dhennig2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Bill:
                          >
                          > My 1103 does not disconnect my MW ferrite internal antenna. What
                          vintage is your radio?
                          >
                          > Darren
                          > VE6IZ
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
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