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RE: [loopantennas] Don't mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite Loop"

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  • Dave Taylor
    Allow me to relate my personal experience in this area. I have a personal (read: non-profit) horse ranch that used to have a Web site. The Ranch is named
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 31, 2007
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      Allow me to relate my personal experience in this area.



      I have a personal (read: non-profit) horse ranch that used to have a Web
      site. The Ranch is named "Taylor Canyon Ranch." So, some techy-oriented
      attorney ran a web-crawler looking for the phrase "Canyon Ranch," which
      happens to be a vacation resort in my home state. The crawler found an
      un-indexed (via one search engine) commercial web page for an old business I
      used to have in another state.



      I received a cease-and-desist letter from this attorney stating that I was
      using his client's trademark ("Canyon Ranch") and was subject to a lawsuit
      if I continued to operate a business under the name "Canyon Ranch" (and
      ease-and-desist ey just want to collect few hundred dollars from trade name
      holders who do jnot do their homewokd.yes, you are probably as confused as I
      was).



      The business name on the web page was "T-Net computer Services." Yet that
      obvious difference did not deter my web-crawling attorney friend.



      So, I sent the attorney a certified letter, explaining that my ranch was
      non-profit, and that he business to which he referred not only did not have
      any reference to "Canyon Ranch," and was dissolved several years before. I
      then boldly told him that Taylor Canyon was located on my ranch property,
      and that I would continue to use a domain name containing
      "taylorcanyonranch," and if he did not like that fact, he could go ahead and
      sue me.



      I never heard a word.



      The bottom line is these guys and gals are modern "bottom feeders," sitting
      in easy chairs while their computers look for matching hits between
      registered trade names and internet content. When they find a match, said
      creeps then contact the trade name owners and try to convince them their
      trade name is at great risk, and naturally, legal action should be taken.



      Of course, we all need to make sure we are not at risk of liability. But my
      legal counsel was to tell the attorney bothering me to "go pound sand."



      Sleep, well...for from what I understand, such "bottom feeder" attorneys
      have little chance of succeeding in a court of law--they just want to
      collect few hundred dollars from trade name holders who do not do their
      homework.



      Cheers, Dave













      -----Original Message-----
      From: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of w1eof@...
      Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 4:16 PM
      To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Don't mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite
      Loop"



      A few comments:



      1. I did not not admit to any wrong doing. On the contrary I expressed

      my opinion that their charges were groundless.



      2. To say that I cannot use their name to refer to their product is

      ridiculous. We're not talking about me producing a loop to compete with

      them and calling it a "Crane Loop" or something.



      3. In the letter it was said that *I* used their schematic to make the

      one I had posted, making it a derivative work. Funny thing is that *I*

      am not the author. The author expressed that several areas were not

      clear to him so the schematic may have been erroneous in that area. If

      he or I had the original schematic there would be no question as the

      accuracy of the one posted.



      3. I was amazed at how the tone changed from the conversation on the

      telephone to the letter 24 hours later.



      4. I believe I was 100% in my legal rights to post the hand-drawn

      schematic and to refer to it by the name of their product and/or company.



      5. I believe I was 100% morally correct in doing it as well.



      6. Lastly... As with everything in life you must weigh the positives and

      negatives of your actions. I didn't feel like this was worth it to

      pursue further action. The could have waited for him to spend some $$$

      to have a lawyer send me a certified copy of that same letter. I could

      then have taken it to the next level and let them actually go to court

      and attempt to get an order or even a judgement against me. In the end,

      they would spend a LOT of money, I would spend nothing, they would get

      nothing. But for what? They are smalltime in their thinking. The world

      is full of people like that. They would rather get some bad publicity

      than just have a conversation about the design with some people who were

      sincerely interested. Instead of maybe helping to building off the

      interest and maybe forming a little community of advocates they chose

      instead to act like smalltime thugs who are way out of their league.



      I received a similar reaction from the owner of the Ameco company a few

      years ago. At the time I was thinking of making a kit that was a replica

      of a product they produced > 25 years ago. I tried to contact them

      several times via telephone and email. I was in the preliminary stages

      where I was trying to get an idea if people would be interested and at

      the same time look at my costs, etc. I was going to focus on some

      numbers so that when I spoke with Ameco I would have an idea of volume,

      selling price, etc. I was in no way thinking of proceeding without

      getting at least a written OK from Ameco. Some suggested that I misspell

      the name by one letter, that it would somehow let me off the hook. (It

      doesn't... Look at trademark cases like Vermont Castings for one) I

      wouldn't think about playing that kind of game. I was making something

      for profit. Making something that has great appeal due to the marketing

      and other work Ameco had done years previous. So I was prepared to

      factor-in a royalty fee and was even thinking they might like to

      participate in the marketing and promotion.



      Instead I get an email from the CEO of Ameco accusing me of being a

      thief, a liar, etc. He was being really weird... wouldn't tell me his

      ham callsign although he claimed to be a ham. Refused to give me his

      address. After a few back and forth emails he apologized and admitted he

      might have been a little hasty on his judgment of me and what I was

      doing. He wanted to talk about a royalty deal.



      I thought about it and dumped the entire project despite having a good

      list of people interested in buying. Why? In my experience people like

      that don't change their way of doing business or relating to people. I

      do not want to get bound into a legal agreement or a business

      relationship with someone who would approach anyone the way he did me.

      So I declined his offer and put the folder of information in the file

      cabinet. Life's too short to deal with lilliputian people who have some

      kind of Napoleon complex and want to shove their weight around.



      So that's my take on this short little bit of drama. I suggest we all

      drop it and move on. Let's talk about loop antennas, not legal loopholes

      and related crapola.



      Regards,



      Mark





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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steve
      My 2 cents as a layman, IANAL: The trademark thing could be called fair use, since you are only identifying the item you reverse engineered. IE, you aren t
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 1 5:00 PM
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        My 2 cents as a layman, IANAL:

        The trademark thing could be called fair use, since you are only
        identifying the item you reverse engineered. IE, you aren't trying to
        pass off your own design as if it were C. Crane's.

        And a trademark search on http://www.uspto.gov shows no matches for
        either "C. Crane" nor "Twin coil ferrite am antenna". The first is the
        guy's name (someone's name is not trademarkable) and the second is
        merely descriptive (which is also not trademarkable).

        The copyright thing sounds like pure FUD. You didn't redraw the patent
        drawing, you reverse engineered the actual item. Copyrights are -very-
        specific in nature, so your schematic would have to be an almost exact
        copy in placement of lines and components and text to be an infringement.

        And so far, reverse engineering an item is still legal.

        Steve Greenfield

        --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "w1eof@..." <w1eof@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Below is an email sent to me tonight from a rep from C. Crane company.
        > He called me last night and was very nice on the telephone. I explained
        > that I didn't feel like I had violated any copyright but that I would
        > consider taking it down. Tonight I get this ridiculous email where they
        > claim I can't even mention the name of the company or the product
        > without their written permission.
        >
        > At any rate, I got better things to do with my time than fight-off
        > frivolous lawsuits. So I will be taking the file down tonight.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Mark
        >
        >
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        > Mark Titterington
        > Hamnutz Website Hosting
        >
        > Dear Mr. Titterington:
        > C. Crane Company, Inc. ("C. Crane"), was recently made aware that you
        > are using the name "C. Crane" and "Twin Coil Ferrite AM Antenna" on a
        > portable document file located at the following URL:
        > http://www.hamnutz.com/loops/ccrane.pdf
        > As you may know, C. Crane has used these names not only on our product,
        > but also on documents, radio advertisements, trade and consumer
        > advertising, catalogs, C. Crane website(s), and other promotional and
        > licensed material distributed worldwide. This product has been in
        > existence since 2001 and has enjoyed tremendous success.
        > United States trademark law requires that C. Crane take all reasonable
        > steps to prevent others from using its marks, or confusingly similar
        > marks, in such a way so as to "dilute" its distinctiveness as an
        > exclusive designator of C. Crane's goods and services. If the mark is
        > used by too many different sources, it becomes a "generic" term, and C.
        > Crane may lose its exclusive right to use it. Thus, it is C. Crane's
        > responsibility to police the use of "C. Crane" and "Twin Coil
        Ferrite AM
        > Antenna" in any manner, and stop all unauthorized use of its
        trademark(s).
        > In addition to the trademark infringement, C. Crane has reason to
        > believe you have made an unauthorized use of our copyrighted C. Crane
        > Twin Coil Ferrite AM Antenna Schematic (the "Schematic") in the
        > preparation of a schematic derived there from. We reserve all rights to
        > the original "Schematic", first published in 2001, and have registered
        > copyright therein. Your work entitled Twin Coil Ferrite AM Antenna
        by C.
        > Crane clearly used our "Schematic" as its basis.
        > As you neither asked for nor received permission to use our "Schematic"
        > as the basis for the infringing schematic and you neither asked for nor
        > received permission to make or distribute copies, including electronic
        > copies, of the same, we believe you have willfully infringed our rights
        > under 17 U.S.C. Section 101 et seq. and could be liable for statutory
        > damages as high as $150,000 as set forth in Section 504(c)(2) therein.
        > Although we believe your use of "C. Crane" and "Twin Coil Ferrite AM
        > Antenna" was not intended to harm C. Crane in any manner, we trust that
        > you can appreciate our concerns. Accordingly, we request that you
        > refrain from using the words "C. Crane" and "Twin Coil Ferrite AM
        > Antenna" without express written permission, and remove all references
        > from the above-mentioned website. In addition, we request that you
        > provide C. Crane with written assurance that you will refrain from
        using
        > its trademarks in the future by no later than August 31st, 2007.
        > In addition, we request that you immediately cease the use and
        > distribution of all infringing works derived from the "Schematic", and
        > all copies, including electronic copies, of the same, that you deliver
        > to us, if applicable, all unused, undistributed copies of same, or
        > destroy such copies immediately and that you desist from this or any
        > other infringement of our rights in the future. If we have not received
        > an affirmative response from you by August 31st, 2007 indicating that
        > you have fully complied with these requirements, We will be forced to
        > take further action against you.
        > Thank you for your attention to this matter, and we look forward to
        > hearing back from you no later than August 31st, 2007.
        > Sincerely,
        > Robbie Crossley
        > Website Manager
        > C. Crane Company, Inc.
        > 1-800-522-8863
        > http://www.ccrane.com
        >
      • Richards
        Not so, Dick Tracy... You have forgotten there are trade names and trade marks and also lots of registered marketing trade phrases and logos. Remember
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 2 9:24 AM
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          Not so, Dick Tracy...
          You have forgotten there are "trade names" and "trade marks" and also
          lots of registered marketing trade phrases and logos. Remember how
          Paris Hilton wanted to patent or register (i.e. protect) some little
          ditty like, "That's Hot" and got all cheesed off because the govt said
          that was just a bit too vague and already had a public use - certainly
          not unique to her or any product she was peddling. But you can register
          a trade name for a person's name or even a phrase (if it is sufficiently
          unique and not already having a secondary meaning or usage).

          ========== Richards =============
          ===============================================================
          >> > Steve said =

          The first is the
          > guy's name (someone's name is not trademarkable) and the second is
          > merely descriptive (which is also not trademarkable).

          ==============================================================
        • WILLIAM STEFFEL
          I always thought you could copy a patented item as long as it was for your own personal use & not to be sold. Am I wrong about this? ... From:
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 2 4:34 PM
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            I always thought you could copy a patented item as long as it was for your
            own personal use & not to be sold. Am I wrong about this?
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <w1eof@...>
            To: <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:03 PM
            Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Don't mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite
            Loop"


            > Doing what I can to help...
            >
            > Thanks for the support.
            >
            > Mark
            >
            >
            > Richards wrote:
            > > Fabulous post. Excellent. /// Richards ///
            > > ==========================================================
            > >
            > > w1eof@... wrote:
            > >
            > >> A few comments:
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >> 1. I did not not admit to any wrong doing. On the contrary I expressed
            > >> my opinion that their charges were groundless.
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >> 2. To say that I cannot use their name to refer to their product is
            > >> ridiculous.
            > >>
            > >
            > > * * *
            > > In my experience people like that don't change their way of doing
            > > business or relating to people. I do not want to get bound into a legal
            > > agreement or a business relationship with someone who would approach
            > > anyone the way he did me.
            > >
            > >
            > >> So that's my take on this short little bit of drama.
            > >>
            > >
            > > ===============================================================
            > >
            > >
            > > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
            > >
            > > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the
            Links rather than uploading the file.
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
            > >
            > > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and
            GIF into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
            > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
            > >
            > > And please trim all this when replying!
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
            >
            > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the
            Links rather than uploading the file.
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
            >
            > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF
            into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
            > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
            >
            > And please trim all this when replying!
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Paul Birke
            I always thought that was the law here in Canada. For the USA I would assume the same best Paul ... From: WILLIAM STEFFEL To:
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 2 6:27 PM
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              I always thought that was the law here in Canada.
              For the USA I would assume the same

              best
              Paul

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: WILLIAM STEFFEL <w.steffel@...>
              To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2007 7:34:45 PM
              Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Don't mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite Loop"

              I always thought you could copy a patented item as long as it was for your
              own personal use & not to be sold. Am I wrong about this?
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <w1eof@...>
              To: <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:03 PM
              Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Don't mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite
              Loop"


              > Doing what I can to help...
              >
              > Thanks for the support.
              >
              > Mark
              >
              >
              > Richards wrote:
              > > Fabulous post. Excellent. /// Richards ///
              > > ==========================================================
              > >
              > > w1eof@... wrote:
              > >
              > >> A few comments:
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >> 1. I did not not admit to any wrong doing. On the contrary I expressed
              > >> my opinion that their charges were groundless.
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >> 2. To say that I cannot use their name to refer to their product is
              > >> ridiculous.
              > >>
              > >
              > > * * *
              > > In my experience people like that don't change their way of doing
              > > business or relating to people. I do not want to get bound into a legal
              > > agreement or a business relationship with someone who would approach
              > > anyone the way he did me.
              > >
              > >
              > >> So that's my take on this short little bit of drama.
              > >>
              > >
              > > ===============================================================
              > >
              > >
              > > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
              > >
              > > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the
              Links rather than uploading the file.
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
              > >
              > > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and
              GIF into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
              > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
              > >
              > > And please trim all this when replying!
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
              >
              > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the
              Links rather than uploading the file.
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
              >
              > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF
              into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
              > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
              >
              > And please trim all this when replying!
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >



              If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links

              Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the Links rather than uploading the file.
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files

              You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
              http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos

              And please trim all this when replying!
              Yahoo! Groups Links









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steve B.
              There is no federal distinction between tradename and trademark. They both fall under trademark law. A simple search can be done by anyone at:
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 3 10:41 AM
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                There is no federal distinction between tradename and trademark. They
                both fall under trademark law. A simple search can be done by anyone
                at:

                http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm

                There is NO registered federal trademark (simple or design) for
                either "C. Crane" or "Twin coil ferrite loop"

                Registered federal copyrights can be searched by anyone at:

                http://www.copyright.gov/records/

                There is NO registered federal copyright of either "C. Crane"
                or "Twin coil ferrite loop"

                Steve B.


                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Richards <jruing@...> wrote:
                >
                > Not so, Dick Tracy...
                > You have forgotten there are "trade names" and "trade marks" and
                also
                > lots of registered marketing trade phrases and logos. Remember how
                > Paris Hilton wanted to patent or register (i.e. protect) some little
                > ditty like, "That's Hot" and got all cheesed off because the govt
                said
                > that was just a bit too vague and already had a public use -
                certainly
                > not unique to her or any product she was peddling. But you can
                register
                > a trade name for a person's name or even a phrase (if it is
                sufficiently
                > unique and not already having a secondary meaning or usage).
                >
                > ========== Richards =============
                > ===============================================================
                > >> > Steve said =
                >
                > The first is the
                > > guy's name (someone's name is not trademarkable) and the second is
                > > merely descriptive (which is also not trademarkable).
                >
                > ==============================================================
                >
              • Dave Taylor
                There are state trade names. For example, in Arizona, The Secretary of State issues trade names to business entities. Unauthorized use of such a trade name can
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 3 11:25 AM
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                  There are state trade names. For example, in Arizona, The Secretary of State
                  issues trade names to business entities. Unauthorized use of such a trade
                  name can be prosecuted under civil law.



                  It's always good to check the home state of the business.



                  Dave







                  _____

                  From: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Steve B.
                  Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:42 AM
                  To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: ***SPAM*** Score/Req: 07.51/06.50 - [loopantennas] Re: Don't
                  mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite Loop"



                  There is no federal distinction between tradename and trademark. They
                  both fall under trademark law. A simple search can be done by anyone
                  at:

                  http://www.uspto <http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm>
                  gov/main/trademarks.htm

                  There is NO registered federal trademark (simple or design) for
                  either "C. Crane" or "Twin coil ferrite loop"

                  Registered federal copyrights can be searched by anyone at:

                  http://www.copyrigh <http://www.copyright.gov/records/> t.gov/records/

                  There is NO registered federal copyright of either "C. Crane"
                  or "Twin coil ferrite loop"

                  Steve B.

                  --- In loopantennas@ <mailto:loopantennas%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com, Richards <jruing@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Not so, Dick Tracy...
                  > You have forgotten there are "trade names" and "trade marks" and
                  also
                  > lots of registered marketing trade phrases and logos. Remember how
                  > Paris Hilton wanted to patent or register (i.e. protect) some little
                  > ditty like, "That's Hot" and got all cheesed off because the govt
                  said
                  > that was just a bit too vague and already had a public use -
                  certainly
                  > not unique to her or any product she was peddling. But you can
                  register
                  > a trade name for a person's name or even a phrase (if it is
                  sufficiently
                  > unique and not already having a secondary meaning or usage).
                  >
                  > ========== Richards =============
                  > ===============================================================
                  > >> > Steve said =
                  >
                  > The first is the
                  > > guy's name (someone's name is not trademarkable) and the second is
                  > > merely descriptive (which is also not trademarkable).
                  >
                  > ==============================================================
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jay Heyl
                  ... IANAL, but I do know that copyrights do NOT have to be registered with the federal government to be valid. If one wants to collect damages from a violator,
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 3 11:30 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On 9/3/07, Steve B. <mcqueen_34@...> wrote:

                    > There is NO registered federal copyright of either "C. Crane"
                    > or "Twin coil ferrite loop"

                    IANAL, but I do know that copyrights do NOT have to be registered with
                    the federal government to be valid. If one wants to collect damages
                    from a violator, then they must be registered, but to simply prevent
                    someone from making money from your copyrighted work or disseminating
                    it without your permission, the copyright need not be registered.

                    -- Jay
                  • gandalfg8@aol.com
                    In a message dated 03/09/2007 19:33:23 GMT Daylight Time, ... IANAL, but I do know that copyrights do NOT have to be registered with the federal government to
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 3 12:40 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 03/09/2007 19:33:23 GMT Daylight Time,
                      yahoogroups@... writes:

                      > There is NO registered federal copyright of either "C. Crane"
                      > or "Twin coil ferrite loop"

                      IANAL, but I do know that copyrights do NOT have to be registered with
                      the federal government to be valid. If one wants to collect damages
                      from a violator, then they must be registered, but to simply prevent
                      someone from making money from your copyrighted work or disseminating
                      it without your permission, the copyright need not be registered.



                      ------------------------------------

                      I think this may have wandered a bit off track.
                      Despite what the lawyer might or might not have claimed, copyright was never
                      really an issue here.

                      It's similar to the Wellbrook discussion we had some time ago, but copyright
                      still only covers documentation/images produced by the copyright holder.

                      A patent, as was commented a day or so ago, protects only commercial
                      exploitation and there's nothing in patent legislation that prevents copying a
                      device for your own, non commercial, purpose whereas copyright legislation does
                      restrict unauthorised copying, even for private use.
                      However, reverse engineering an electronic circuit and producing a schematic
                      might be considered a violation of intellectual property rights, not sure
                      how far the legislation has got on that, but it isn't covered by copyright law
                      unless the diagram is a reproduction of one produced by the copyright holder.

                      Similarly, if you publish a copy of the original printed circuit board that
                      could be considered copyright violation but designing your own can't be.
                      I'm not convinced either that mentioning a product by name is, in itself, a
                      trademark violation unless by way of using it for a competing product.

                      I can understand a manufacturer being unhappy if a full reverse engineered
                      schematic of his product, as opposed to patent outline documents, is made
                      public, I know I would be, but that doesn't make it either a copyright or a
                      patent issue.

                      regards

                      Nigel
                      GM8PZR








                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chris Smolinski
                      ... Terms such as C. Crane or Twin coil ferrite loop would be trademarked, not copyrighted. And even if they are trademarks, you re certainly able to
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 3 1:38 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >
                        >In a message dated 03/09/2007 19:33:23 GMT Daylight Time, 
                        >yahoogroups@... writes:
                        >
                        >> There is NO registered federal copyright of either "C. Crane"
                        >> or "Twin coil ferrite loop"
                        >
                        >IANAL, but I do know that copyrights do NOT have to be registered with
                        >the federal government to be valid. If one wants to collect damages
                        >from a violator, then they must be registered, but to simply prevent
                        >someone from making money from your copyrighted work or disseminating
                        >it without your permission, the copyright need not be registered.

                        Terms such as "C. Crane" or "Twin coil ferrite
                        loop" would be trademarked, not copyrighted. And
                        even if they are trademarks, you're certainly
                        able to mention them, as long as you state the
                        usual disclaimer blurbage that such and such is a
                        registered trademark of so and so.

                        You could possibly copyright a specific drawing,
                        but as you cannot copyright facts, you cannot
                        claim copyright over all representations of a
                        circuit. Feist Publications vs Rural Telephone is
                        likely the relevant supreme court case here.

                        --

                        ---
                        Chris Smolinski
                        Black Cat Systems
                        http://www.blackcatsystems.com
                      • jr_dakota
                        My taske on this is simply this 1 rule I absolutely refuse to buy or do business with any company that doesn t have a schematic available for their devices ...
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 4 7:33 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          My taske on this is simply this 1 rule

                          I absolutely refuse to buy or do business with any company that
                          doesn't have a schematic available for their devices ... Those who
                          have something to hide usually are up to something unethical (although
                          it may be legal, ethics and legality are two entirely different
                          things) like profiteering. I have no problem with people turning a
                          reasonable profit on their work, I do have a big problem with the
                          Profiteers that are corrupting Society and especially Government

                          Capitalism without a firm Ethical Base is nothing more than Organized
                          Crime

                          JR

                          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "w1eof@..." <w1eof@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Below is an email sent to me tonight from a rep from C. Crane company.
                          > He called me last night and was very nice on the telephone. I explained
                          > that I didn't feel like I had violated any copyright but that I would
                          > consider taking it down. Tonight I get this ridiculous email where they
                          > claim I can't even mention the name of the company or the product
                          > without their written permission.
                          >
                          > At any rate, I got better things to do with my time than fight-off
                          > frivolous lawsuits. So I will be taking the file down tonight.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Mark
                          >
                          > ~
                        • Chris Fleming
                          Indeed, however if you can not beat them then ... I am considering starting up a Hamburger chain call MuckDonalds should do really well. ... From:
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 4 6:04 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Indeed, however if you can not beat them then ...

                            I am considering starting up a Hamburger chain call "MuckDonalds" should do
                            really well.
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com]On
                            Behalf Of jr_dakota
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:34 AM
                            To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Don't mention "C Crane" or "Twin Coil Ferrite
                            Loop"


                            My taske on this is simply this 1 rule

                            I absolutely refuse to buy or do business with any company that
                            doesn't have a schematic available for their devices ... Those who
                            have something to hide usually are up to something unethical (although
                            it may be legal, ethics and legality are two entirely different
                            things) like profiteering. I have no problem with people turning a
                            reasonable profit on their work, I do have a big problem with the
                            Profiteers that are corrupting Society and especially Government

                            Capitalism without a firm Ethical Base is nothing more than Organized
                            Crime

                            JR

                            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "w1eof@..." <w1eof@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Below is an email sent to me tonight from a rep from C. Crane company.
                            > He called me last night and was very nice on the telephone. I explained
                            > that I didn't feel like I had violated any copyright but that I would
                            > consider taking it down. Tonight I get this ridiculous email where they
                            > claim I can't even mention the name of the company or the product
                            > without their written permission.
                            >
                            > At any rate, I got better things to do with my time than fight-off
                            > frivolous lawsuits. So I will be taking the file down tonight.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Mark
                            >
                            > ~






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