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Re: [loopantennas] Superadio III and added loop question

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  • Rob Mills
    ... From: Jay Heyl To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Superadio III and added loop question
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jay Heyl
      Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:54 AM
      Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Superadio III and added loop question

      >>The only problem I had with the RX320 on MW was when I
      had the whip antenna still attached.
      <<
      When you insert a plug into the antenna jack (the jack has a switch built into it) it disconnects an active amp and the whip antenna. I have heard that the later 320D's are much better than the early 320's on MW. I purchased mine when they first came out so it's a very early 320 but you couldn't pry it out of my hands. It works great above 1 mhz and not too bad below 1 mhz with the DA 5 hooked to it. RM~ 

    • Bruce Carter
      It takes a larger loop - at least more than one square foot - to enhance reception on a GE SR 3. I have DX ed with the GE using 4 and 5 foot loops - every 50
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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        It takes a larger loop - at least more than one square foot - to
        enhance reception on a GE SR 3. I have DX'ed with the GE using 4
        and 5 foot loops - every 50 kW station within a thousand miles comes
        in easily. It is amazing what you can do. But not with a Radio
        Shack or Terk loop. Unless you want to use them to null a strong
        local, but with the GE that is seldom a problem.

        Thanks for posting that about the old McKay Dymek antenna - it gives
        me a good idea about how sensitive they really are, which is about
        as sensitive as a GE SR 3. So I don't have to find one on Ebay,
        although the AM tuner from McKay would still be nice.
      • Jay Heyl
        ... Yep, that s what the manual says happens when you put a plug in the antenna jack, but it just ain t so. It may well be it does something involving the
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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          On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:44:57 -0600, Rob Mills <robmills@...> wrote:

          > >>The only problem I had with the RX320 on MW was when I
          > had the whip antenna still attached.<<
          > When you insert a plug into the antenna jack (the jack has a switch built
          > into it) it disconnects an active amp and the whip antenna. I have heard
          > that the later 320D's are much better than the early 320's on MW. I
          > purchased mine when they first came out so it's a very early 320 but you
          > couldn't pry it out of my hands. It works great above 1 mhz and not too bad
          > below 1 mhz with the DA 5 hooked to it. RM~

          Yep, that's what the manual says happens when you put a plug in the
          antenna jack, but it just ain't so. It may well be it does something
          involving the whip, but I can tell you that on my RX320 when the whip
          is physically attached the MW reception is beyond horrible. I can't
          copy anything but 25+kW transmitters within 20 miles. $2 throwaways
          do a better job on MW than my RX320 when the whip is attached.
          Physically disconnect the whip and the world of MW DXing opens up.
          I've heard others report similar experiences. I bought my 320 about a
          year before they came out with the 'D' version. Give it a try with
          yours and see what happens.

          -- Jay Heyl
        • Jim Dunstan
          ... You mention DXing with the SRIII and an external antenna. I distinguish between the small loop and an external long wire antenna. As you have observed
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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            At 02:29 PM 01/21/2005 +0000, you wrote:

            Does anyone here DX with the Superadio III and use an external antenna? My 8 sided loop works great on my old tube radio and a portable digital tuner but I just got the GE Superadio and the antenna in that thing blows my other setup away! Although; with the external loop added it maybe enhanced certain frequencies by helping null strong stations out. I'm now thinking of adding an amplifier to the loop and see if I can get a little more gain into the SR without overloading the front end?
            If someone here has any ideas; Please let me know. Also regarding signal amps; Is there anything cheap on the market that will work or should I just get the stuff and build one. This might sound stupid but what is the lowest frequency that one of those TV antenna amplifiers would handle? I was thinking of looking around and see what I could use before I go through all the hastle of working with static sensitive transistors and I haven't breadboarded any circuits in awhile.             

            You mention DXing with the SRIII and an external antenna.  I distinguish between the small loop and an external long wire antenna.  As you have observed and noted, the small loop adds little to the performance.  In this case you need to be more selective in it's use.

            Daytime DX is primarily gain .... if you can't make out a station perhaps higher gain or a bigger antenna will do the trick.  I have found that connecting an external antenna to the SRIII doesn't work very well.  However. connecting the long wire to your small loop on one side of the capcitor and a ground wire on the other makes a big difference.  In other words you turn your small loop into a kind of antenna tuner.  Inductively couple the SRIII by moving it in relation to the loop .... sometimes being almost a foot from the loop is the sweet spot.

            Night time reception (DX) is often more of separating out stations than increasing signals.  Listen in on a frequency with several stations on or near the frequency then bring your loop closer in to the radio and fiddle with the tuning.  What you will find is stations popping in and out according to how you fiddle with the loop.

            Both of these uses are quite different than the effect of the loop on a run-in-the-mill MW receiver and the dramatic improvement with the loop.

            Jim Dunstan
            Thunder Bay, ON

          • Rob Mills
            ... From: Jay Heyl To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Superadio III and added loop question
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jay Heyl
              Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:35 PM
              Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Superadio III and added loop question

              >>> that's what the manual says happens when you put a plug in the
              antenna jack, but it just ain't so.
              <<<
               
              Could it be that the  rca plug you are using is not long enough reach the switch in the jack? The plug that TenTech supplied with the 320 is slightly longer than most rca plugs. I've had to lengthen some with a bit of wire and some solder. RM~
               
              PS, If you have any questions, e-mail me direct as this is a bit off topic for this group.   
            • wcmulve@juno.com
              in liew of extending a rca jack try a motorola jack same as rca but longer. ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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                in liew of extending a rca jack try a motorola jack same as rca but longer.

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              • Rob Mills
                Thanks but it s the rca plug that needs extending (probably 1/8 inch or less). It s a simple overhaul. RM~ ... From: wcmulve@juno.com To:
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 21, 2005
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                  Thanks but it's the rca plug that needs extending (probably 1/8 inch or less). It's a simple overhaul. RM~
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 7:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Superadio III and added loop question



                  in liew of extending a rca jack try a motorola jack same as rca but longer.

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                • wrappedwire
                  ... Thanks Bruce! I ve read alot of your articles and trust that you re the man when it comes to loops. I m going to build a HUGE loop and see if that helps. I
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 22, 2005
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                    --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Carter" <brucec@m...> wrote:
                    >
                    > It takes a larger loop - at least more than one square foot - to
                    > enhance reception on a GE SR 3. I have DX'ed with the GE using 4
                    > and 5 foot loops - every 50 kW station within a thousand miles comes
                    > in easily. It is amazing what you can do. But not with a Radio
                    > Shack or Terk loop. Unless you want to use them to null a strong
                    > local, but with the GE that is seldom a problem.
                    >
                    > Thanks for posting that about the old McKay Dymek antenna - it gives
                    > me a good idea about how sensitive they really are, which is about
                    > as sensitive as a GE SR 3. So I don't have to find one on Ebay,
                    > although the AM tuner from McKay would still be nice.



                    Thanks Bruce! I've read alot of your articles
                    and trust that you're the man when it comes to loops. I'm going to build a HUGE loop and see if that helps. I might try making a loop that hooks to the ceiling and goes from wall to wall.
                    In order to do this; The loop will have to be less that 2 feet tall and 12 foot long! I'm thinking of a PVC tube frame with T's every couple feet to run cross beam supports. Might even have to add wooden dowels inside the pipe to strengthen it. The whole deal will turn 180 degrees from down below @ the center pivot point where I can mount the vari-cap and the radio can be tied in. This should do something to help the Superadio reception LOL.
                  • Bruce Carter
                    Area is the key - a long narrow loop with 24 square feet will perform the same as a rectangular loop with an area of 24 square feet.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 24, 2005
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                      Area is the key - a long narrow loop with 24 square feet will
                      perform the same as a rectangular loop with an area of 24 square
                      feet.
                    • AL Mathies
                      ... 2 x 12 would be close to a square loop measuring almost 5 on each side which would really be too much indoors. If I can get the 12 x 2 up above head
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 24, 2005
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                        --- Bruce Carter <brucec@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Area is the key - a long narrow loop with 24 square
                        > feet will
                        > perform the same as a rectangular loop with an area
                        > of 24 square
                        > feet.
                        >
                        > Hmmm .. That's what I thought so; A loop measuring
                        2'x 12' would be close to a square loop measuring
                        almost 5' on each side which would really be too much
                        indoors. If I can get the 12'x 2' up above head level;
                        it wouldn't take up any floor space.
                        Another thought I had was to buy a 5 pound ferrite
                        rod encassed in pvc and try winding a HUGE loopstick
                        to hook into the Superadio inductive coupling antenna
                        terminals. The problem here is that the ferrite core
                        cost $80.00 and there are no plans to hook it in to an
                        existing loop other than wind 460 turns of magnetic
                        wire and leave the ends of the wire un-attached. This
                        is tuned by sliding the coil back and forth on the
                        ferrite and only putting the assembly in close
                        proximity to the radio.
                        I would think that a variable capacitor hooked to the
                        coil and a second winding for the low impedance
                        coupling would work and should provide a nice boost in
                        Q to the SR.
                        As soon as I get my FED tax refund I will begin
                        experimenting.




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                      • Stumm, John C
                        You can actually the same thing adequately with a smaller ferrite rod, (say an 18 incher from Stormwise) placed inside a loop wound on a short piece of 2
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 25, 2005
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                          You can actually the same thing adequately with a smaller ferrite rod,
                          (say an 18 incher from Stormwise) placed inside a loop wound on a short
                          piece of 2" PVC, and the tuning cap. Ground one side of the tuned
                          assembly and a stretch of antenna wire on the other will dramatically
                          enhance range. Their web site should still have the plans for this
                          lash-up and others.
                          How much it enhances the reception on the SR is questionable. The
                          directional characteristics are lost though.
                          John

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: AL Mathies [mailto:operation_buy@...]
                          Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:45 PM
                          To: loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Re: Superadio III and added loop question



                          --- Bruce Carter <brucec@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Area is the key - a long narrow loop with 24 square
                          > feet will
                          > perform the same as a rectangular loop with an area
                          > of 24 square
                          > feet.
                          >
                          > Hmmm .. That's what I thought so; A loop measuring
                          2'x 12' would be close to a square loop measuring
                          almost 5' on each side which would really be too much
                          indoors. If I can get the 12'x 2' up above head level;
                          it wouldn't take up any floor space.
                          Another thought I had was to buy a 5 pound ferrite
                          rod encassed in pvc and try winding a HUGE loopstick
                          to hook into the Superadio inductive coupling antenna
                          terminals. The problem here is that the ferrite core
                          cost $80.00 and there are no plans to hook it in to an
                          existing loop other than wind 460 turns of magnetic
                          wire and leave the ends of the wire un-attached. This
                          is tuned by sliding the coil back and forth on the
                          ferrite and only putting the assembly in close
                          proximity to the radio.
                          I would think that a variable capacitor hooked to the
                          coil and a second winding for the low impedance
                          coupling would work and should provide a nice boost in
                          Q to the SR.
                          As soon as I get my FED tax refund I will begin
                          experimenting.




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