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Re: [loopantennas] Wellbrook ALA100

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  • Steve Ratzlaff
    Hi Dominique, I probably don t understand your question properly. How can a triangle have two 90 degree angles? Anyway, I m using a Wellbrook ALA100 with a
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 26, 2007
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      Hi Dominique,
      I probably don't understand your question properly. How can a triangle have
      two 90 degree angles?
      Anyway, I'm using a Wellbrook ALA100 with a 100' circumference vertical
      loop, which happens to be in a rectangular shape, but any type of shape
      would work. The loop area, or circumference, determines the sensitivity--the
      larger the loop the more sensitive it is, of course. But for you in Europe
      you probably can't use that large a loop due to your very strong broadcast
      signals. I don't have that problem here in USA, so can use a larger loop.
      The vertical loop is quite directional at LF/MW, I've found. You really need
      two loops at right angles if you want to cover all 4 compass directions. I
      made a relay box so I can switch the two loops.
      Best regards,
      Steve
      NE Oregon

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...>
      To: <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 9:14 AM
      Subject: [loopantennas] Wellbrook ALA100


      Hi,
      I'm just wondering if anybody has tried to install a Wellbrook ALA100 loop
      (or any other loop) in a 90° vertical configuration, i.e. both sides of the
      inverted V triangle make a right angle.
      My main interest is monitoring non directionaI beacons in the LW band.
      Is it worth trying ?
      (Hope my bad english is comprehensible !)

      Thanks for your advices

      Dominique Kremp
      Normandy/France
    • sonicxcove@aol.com
      In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:27:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, steveratz@eoni.com writes: Hi Dominique, I probably don t understand your question properly.
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 26, 2007
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        In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:27:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        steveratz@... writes:

        Hi Dominique,
        I probably don't understand your question properly. How can a triangle have
        two 90 degree angles?



        In the third dimension if you look at one the right way a triangle can have
        90º angles.

        Eric


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • C. Beijersbergen
        Hello Dominique, There s nothing wrong with your english as far as I can discover. Putting the ALA100 loop in the horizontal plane, whatever shape it is,
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 27, 2007
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          Hello Dominique,
          There's nothing wrong with your english as far as I can discover.
          Putting the ALA100 loop in the horizontal plane, whatever shape it is, wouldn't that make it omnidirectional by itself?

          regards,

          Cor Beijersbergen

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richards
          Does looking at it the right way make it a right Triangle?? ;-) /////////////// JHR ////////////// ... way a triangle can have 90º angles.
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 29, 2007
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            Does looking at it the "right" way
            make it a "right" Triangle??

            ;-)

            /////////////// JHR //////////////


            sonicxcove@... wrote:

            >
            > In the third dimension if you look at one the right
            way a triangle can have > 90º angles.
          • jr_dakota
            Actually turning a loop on it s side can be advantageous to null out electrical noise below it, like in a rooftop mounted situation on a home with a lot of RFI
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 29, 2007
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              Actually turning a loop on it's side can be advantageous to null out
              electrical noise below it, like in a rooftop mounted situation on a
              home with a lot of RFI generating devices ...

              JR

              --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "D.Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              > I'm just wondering if anybody has tried to install a Wellbrook
              ALA100 loop
              > (or any other loop) in a 90° vertical configuration, i.e. both
              sides of the
              > inverted V triangle make a right angle.
              > My main interest is monitoring non directionaI beacons in the LW band.
              > Is it worth trying ?
              > (Hope my bad english is comprehensible !)
              >
              > Thanks for your advices
              >
              > Dominique Kremp
              > Normandy/France
              >
            • Steve Ratzlaff
              This is not rebuttal or anything of the kind, but just some explanation about the original question that started this thread. Dominique, the original poster of
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 29, 2007
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                This is not rebuttal or anything of the kind, but just some explanation
                about the original question that started this thread. Dominique, the
                original poster of the message in this thread, responded privately to my
                question about not understanding his comment about triangles with right
                angles. He sent me two diagrams that made it all clear what he was trying to
                do. The rear of his garden ("backyard" to us Americans) has a fence around
                it, and makes a 90 degree turn. He wanted to put up two poles on both sides
                of the right-angle turn, and run a loop so that the wires were in line with
                the fence and not crossing over the garden, thus there would be a right
                angle to the loop. His center pole would be at the right-angle intersection,
                where his Wellbrook ALA100 preamp would be located. There would be a
                horizontal component and a partial-vertical component to his loop wires,
                making it less directional. (A small vertical loop is quite directional,
                particularly when used with the ALA100, which is how my own ALA100 is being
                used.) I did not understand what he was trying to do until he sent me the
                diagrams--then it was very clear. I also made a small model with a box and
                pencils and thin wire, to see how his loop would look in full
                three-dimensional view!
                I told him that I thought such a loop would work just fine with his ALA100.
                Best regards,
                Steve AA7U
                NE Oregon
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Richards" <jruing@...>
                To: <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Wellbrook ALA100


                > Does looking at it the "right" way
                > make it a "right" Triangle??
                >
                > ;-)
                >
                > /////////////// JHR //////////////
                >
                >
                > sonicxcove@... wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> In the third dimension if you look at one the right
                > way a triangle can have > 90º angles.
                >
                >
                > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
                >
                > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the
                > Links rather than uploading the file.
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
                >
                > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF
                > into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
                > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
                >
                > And please trim all this when replying!
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • D.Kremp
                Thank you very much Steve for the help and for the comprehensive explanation about my post. I was unable to explain it as clear as you because of my bad
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 29, 2007
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                  Thank you very much Steve for the help and for the comprehensive explanation
                  about my post. I was unable to explain it as clear as you because of my bad
                  english..

                  Hope everybody will now understand what I meant.

                  I dropped a line to Andy IKIN who is the "father" of the Wellbrook antennas.
                  He told me that the antenna should be OK at HF in this configuration but I
                  should expect a small loss in gain at LF.

                  But I don't know how many dBs he means when he says "small loss" !

                  Any clue ?



                  Thanks again to you Steve !



                  Dominique

                  from Normandy/France





                  _____

                  De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De
                  la part de Steve Ratzlaff
                  Envoyé : lundi 29 janvier 2007 20:37
                  À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                  Objet : Re: [loopantennas] Wellbrook ALA100



                  This is not rebuttal or anything of the kind, but just some explanation
                  about the original question that started this thread. Dominique, the
                  original poster of the message in this thread, responded privately to my
                  question about not understanding his comment about triangles with right
                  angles. He sent me two diagrams that made it all clear what he was trying to

                  do. The rear of his garden ("backyard" to us Americans) has a fence around
                  it, and makes a 90 degree turn. He wanted to put up two poles on both sides
                  of the right-angle turn, and run a loop so that the wires were in line with
                  the fence and not crossing over the garden, thus there would be a right
                  angle to the loop. His center pole would be at the right-angle intersection,

                  where his Wellbrook ALA100 preamp would be located. There would be a
                  horizontal component and a partial-vertical component to his loop wires,
                  making it less directional. (A small vertical loop is quite directional,
                  particularly when used with the ALA100, which is how my own ALA100 is being
                  used.) I did not understand what he was trying to do until he sent me the
                  diagrams--then it was very clear. I also made a small model with a box and
                  pencils and thin wire, to see how his loop would look in full
                  three-dimensional view!
                  I told him that I thought such a loop would work just fine with his ALA100.
                  Best regards,
                  Steve AA7U
                  NE Oregon
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Richards" <jruing@ameritech. <mailto:jruing%40ameritech.net> net>
                  To: <loopantennas@ <mailto:loopantennas%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:44 AM
                  Subject: Re: [loopantennas] Wellbrook ALA100

                  > Does looking at it the "right" way
                  > make it a "right" Triangle??
                  >
                  > ;-)
                  >
                  > /////////////// JHR //////////////
                  >
                  >
                  > sonicxcove@aol. <mailto:sonicxcove%40aol.com> com wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> In the third dimension if you look at one the right
                  > way a triangle can have > 90º angles.
                  >
                  >
                  > If you've got links, post them in the Links section!
                  > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links>
                  yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/links
                  >
                  > Post files here. If the file comes from a website, please put it in the
                  > Links rather than uploading the file.
                  > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files>
                  yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/files
                  >
                  > You can now view images at higher resolution in Photos. Upload JPG and GIF

                  > into Photos. Please convert BMP or TIF to JPG or GIF before uploading.
                  > http://ph.groups. <http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos>
                  yahoo.com/group/loopantennas/photos
                  >
                  > And please trim all this when replying!
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >



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