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Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop

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  • dstremme
    Hello one and all NEW Member here Just started working at Pixel Technologies http://www.pixelsatradio.com always looking for product feedback, suggestions,
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 3, 2014
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      Hello one and all
      NEW Member here
      Just started working at Pixel Technologies
      http://www.pixelsatradio.com

      always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
      I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
      and learn from the users what works,  what would make it better etc.

      Thx in advance
      David
      KA0IJV
    • Richard Karlquist
      ... I have a Pixel loop that I want to put at the back of my 20 acres fed with a 1000 foot length of coax. I tried to ask the factory about that, and got a
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 3, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        On 2014-02-03 12:05, dstremme@... wrote:
        > Hello one and all
        > NEW Member here
        > Just started working at Pixel Technologies
        > http://www.pixelsatradio.com
        >
        > always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
        > I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance
        > I can
        > and learn from the users what works, what would make it better etc.
        >
        > Thx in advance
        > David
        > KA0IJV

        I have a Pixel loop that I want to put at the back of my 20 acres
        fed with a 1000 foot length of coax. I tried to ask the factory
        about that, and got a confusing answer. You need to address this
        issue.

        Rick N6RK
      • Todd Roberts
        For one thing the Pixel Pro-1B is too expensive. Not a whole lot of hobbyists want to spend $500 for a receiving loop antenna, myself included. Why does it
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 3, 2014
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          For one thing the Pixel Pro-1B is too expensive. Not a whole  lot of hobbyists
          want to spend $500 for a receiving loop antenna, myself included. Why does
          it have to be so expensive?
          73 - Todd WD4NGG
          -----Original Message-----
          From: dstremme <dstremme@...>
          To: loopantennas <loopantennas@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Feb 3, 2014 7:17 pm
          Subject: [loopantennas] Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop

           
          Hello one and all
          NEW Member here
          Just started working at Pixel Technologies
          http://www.pixelsatradio.com

          always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
          I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
          and learn from the users what works,  what would make it better etc.

          Thx in advance
          David
          KA0IJV
        • Andy
          I came face to face with one of these last week at the local candy store (HRO). Nice looking. Impressive up close. I should have asked them if they have it
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 3, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            I came face to face with one of these last week at the local candy store (HRO).  Nice looking.  Impressive up close.

            I should have asked them if they have it hooked up to one of the demo rigs.  The online video is one thing, hearing it in person is another.

            For me the price would be a real issue.  Anyway I'm not in the market for one.

            Andy


          • Andy Gardner
            Pretty pricey, but if I didn t have DIY skills, I d certainly be looking at one. What the use of spending $800 odd dollars on a comms receiver, and feeding a
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 3, 2014
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              Pretty pricey, but if I didn't have DIY skills, I'd certainly be looking at one.

              What the use of spending $800 odd dollars on a comms receiver, and feeding a noisy signal into it? You'd be far better off buying one of these and spending less on the radio itself. Unless you enjoy listening to QRM.

              As they say - garbage in, garbage out.

              ANDY
              ZL3AG

              On 4/02/2014, at 9:05 AM, <dstremme@...> wrote:

              > Hello one and all
              > NEW Member here
              > Just started working at Pixel Technologies
              > http://www.pixelsatradio.com
              >
              > always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
              > I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
              > and learn from the users what works, what would make it better etc.
              >
              > Thx in advance
              > David
              > KA0IJV
              >
            • Richard (Rick) Karlquist
              ... It comes with a brick style amplifier made by Clifton labs. This is a high quality design with good large signal handling and a 3 dB NF. Being
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 3, 2014
              • 0 Attachment
                On 2/3/2014 6:11 PM, Todd Roberts wrote:
                > For one thing the Pixel Pro-1B is too expensive. Not a whole lot of
                > hobbyists
                > want to spend $500 for a receiving loop antenna, myself included. Why does
                > it have to be so expensive?
                > 73 - Todd WD4NGG

                It comes with a "brick" style amplifier made by Clifton labs.
                This is a high quality design with good large signal handling
                and a 3 dB NF. Being connectorized, I can use it for other
                antennas. I like having it around for a general purpose preamp
                for experimenting with other receive antennas. With 30 dB
                gain, it can drive my 1000 foot coax line to the back of the
                property.

                Anyway, the amplifier is worth a fair amount of money in its
                own right.

                Rick N6RK
              • Dominique Kremp
                Hi folks, Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins: http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf I fully agree with him ! Dominique
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
                • 0 Attachment

                  Hi folks,

                   

                  Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins:

                  http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf

                  I fully agree with him !

                   

                  Dominique

                  Normandy, France

                   

                   

                  De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De la part de dstremme@...
                  Envoyé : lundi 3 février 2014 21:06
                  À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                  Objet : [loopantennas] Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop

                   



                  Hello one and all
                  NEW Member here
                  Just started working at Pixel Technologies
                  http://www.pixelsatradio.com

                  always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
                  I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
                  and learn from the users what works,  what would make it better etc.

                  Thx in advance
                  David
                  KA0IJV


                • Andy Gardner
                  That was an interesting read. Thanks!
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That was an interesting read. Thanks!

                    On 4/02/2014, at 9:29 PM, Dominique Kremp wrote:

                    >
                    > Hi folks,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins:
                    >
                    > http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf
                    >
                    > I fully agree with him !
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dominique
                    >
                    > Normandy, France
                  • John
                    So, Dominique, you ve tried them both and prefer the Wellbrook - or you interpret Guy s data and agree with his conclusion? Go to Pixel s site and you ll find
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                      So, Dominique, you've tried them both and prefer the Wellbrook - or you interpret Guy's data and agree with his conclusion? Go to Pixel's site and you'll find the Pro-1 beats the Wellbrook. I wouldn't expect a commercial site to use an unflattering comparison in their advertising.

                      I certainly have built my share of antennas - TTFD, slopers, dipoles bi-Beverage, long wires - active antennas - even remotely tuned/amplified balanced loops. I have a technical background - got my FCC First Class Radiotelephone license 9/68; was a USN ET ('69-'72); taught electronics/telecommunications '75-'95; and chiefed at several FM stations and part-time at one AM station. Why would I spend most of $400 on something I could build? In retrospect, that decision three years ago was a good one.

                      I bought my Pro-1A three years ago to replace my wire antennas, whose ancient tree supports had succumbed to disease and/or the ravages of weather, the worst of which was destined to test the Pixel antenna 4/2011 & 1/2012 in two tornadoe near misses. The first one dislodged some roof shingles, as it was airborne here, but the second one turned the loop as it emptied the deck the antenna was mounted to and redistributed my wife's wind chimes, totally destroying homes a block away. I had chosen the Pixel for it's robust and modular construction - and it had paid off. Having been 'made in the USA' didn't hurt, either. Last summer found my wife and I moving - after 36.5 yr - to a garden home.

                      The new home has a Home Owner's Association - with by-laws prohibiting outside antennas. I carried my Pro-1A up the stairs to the floored tall attic and mounted it's 5 ft mast in a tripod mount and set it high and as clear of interference as I could, hooking it's RG6 feed to an existing such feed to my 'office' below. I now have the best and most QRM-free reception I've ever had. The background noise is minimal - and the desired signals are stronger than I recalled at the old house 3 miles away. The background noise is practically non existent, from the 200 kHz remaining aeronautical beacons to MW BCB stations to tropical bands to SW BCBs, as sparsely populated as they now are. It's directional nature permitted reduction in a QRM source - the metal cylinder in my yard (buried utilities) which contains the fiber optic/twisted pair DSL modem was DFed with my Tecsun PL-660 as the culprit. In all honesty, protected from the elements - in my attic - the Wellbrook would have been fine.

                      I spent most of $400 on my Pixel simply because I had it - returns from another hobby-item's sale. I don't regret it one bit - it and the R30A - resurrected my longtime hobby. I even got my NRD-525, R8, & HF-150 out of storage and since bought a used R75 and HF-225 - all sharing the Pixel antenna. One minor regret, born from my prior experiences with power outages - no 12V power inserter for battery power. I can remedy that after I find my soldering iron! If you've never tried a decent shielded loop antenna, you need to. Whether you build or buy is up to you.

                      John

                      --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Dominique Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi folks,
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins:
                      >
                      > http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf
                      >
                      > I fully agree with him !
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dominique
                      >
                      > Normandy, France
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De la part de dstremme@...
                      > Envoyé : lundi 3 février 2014 21:06
                      > À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                      > Objet : [loopantennas] Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hello one and all
                      > NEW Member here
                      > Just started working at Pixel Technologies
                      > http://www.pixelsatradio.com
                      >
                      > always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
                      > I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
                      > and learn from the users what works, what would make it better etc.
                      >
                      > Thx in advance
                      > David
                      > KA0IJV
                      >
                    • Andy Gardner
                      An antenna? No sir, it s a giant dream catcher ...
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        An antenna? No sir, it's a giant "dream catcher"...

                        On 5/02/2014, at 1:08 AM, John wrote:

                        > The new home has a Home Owner's Association - with by-laws prohibiting outside antennas.
                      • Dominique Kremp
                        Hi John, Interesting thread indeed ! Yes, I tried them both and then I read Guy s review. My conclusions fully match with his. My QTH is 12km / 7miles from a
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi John,

                          Interesting thread indeed !
                          Yes, I tried them both and then I read Guy's review. My conclusions fully match with his.
                          My QTH is 12km / 7miles from a LORAN-C transmitter (LESSAY/Normandy/France) which spits out 250kW on 100kHz from a 250m high tower 24 hours a day. Hence, I suffer from considerable antenna/receiver overload and IMD issues.
                          I've been looking for a long time for receiving antennas which can stand such harsh conditions and can feed my receivers with very clean signals (I think I already tested all existing active and magnetic antennas except those from Rhode & Schwarz - a bit too expensive for me -!).
                          I had heard that the PIXEL RF Pro-1B is a must in the magnetic antennas world and decided to buy and test one. I compared a brand new PIXEL Pro-1B side by side to my 5 WELLBROOK loops (ALA1530 (2x), ALA100, ALA100M, LFL1010) in early 2103. The WELLBROOK loops ALWAYS were the best ones in terms of sensitivity and especially concerning the S/N, not only in the VLF and NDB band: from 125kHz up to the HF bands no trace at all of the LORAN-C's rattle and no noise, far better S/N ratio on the HF bands than the PIXEL(e.g. constant S3 on 2182kHz with the Pixel, S0 with the WELLBROOK loops) !
                          I can confirm Guy Atkins conclusions: WELLBROOK beats PIXEL in every configuration ... not only in terms of price !
                          Like most other Pixel users here in Europe I sold on my RF-Pro-1B after one month use.
                          Now the last, but not the least: WELLBROOK's boss Andy IKIN is very customers-friendly, he provides help and advices rapidly and at any time !
                          Nice product and nice after-sales-service: I can only recommend WELLBROOK !
                          Hope it helps

                          Dominique
                          Normandy, France

                          PS I don't have any connection to this company !




                          -----Message d'origine-----
                          De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De la part de John
                          Envoyé : mardi 4 février 2014 13:09
                          À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                          Objet : [loopantennas] Re: Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop

                          So, Dominique, you've tried them both and prefer the Wellbrook - or you interpret Guy's data and agree with his conclusion? Go to Pixel's site and you'll find the Pro-1 beats the Wellbrook. I wouldn't expect a commercial site to use an unflattering comparison in their advertising.

                          I certainly have built my share of antennas - TTFD, slopers, dipoles bi-Beverage, long wires - active antennas - even remotely tuned/amplified balanced loops. I have a technical background - got my FCC First Class Radiotelephone license 9/68; was a USN ET ('69-'72); taught electronics/telecommunications '75-'95; and chiefed at several FM stations and part-time at one AM station. Why would I spend most of $400 on something I could build? In retrospect, that decision three years ago was a good one.

                          I bought my Pro-1A three years ago to replace my wire antennas, whose ancient tree supports had succumbed to disease and/or the ravages of weather, the worst of which was destined to test the Pixel antenna 4/2011 & 1/2012 in two tornadoe near misses. The first one dislodged some roof shingles, as it was airborne here, but the second one turned the loop as it emptied the deck the antenna was mounted to and redistributed my wife's wind chimes, totally destroying homes a block away. I had chosen the Pixel for it's robust and modular construction - and it had paid off. Having been 'made in the USA' didn't hurt, either. Last summer found my wife and I moving - after 36.5 yr - to a garden home.

                          The new home has a Home Owner's Association - with by-laws prohibiting outside antennas. I carried my Pro-1A up the stairs to the floored tall attic and mounted it's 5 ft mast in a tripod mount and set it high and as clear of interference as I could, hooking it's RG6 feed to an existing such feed to my 'office' below. I now have the best and most QRM-free reception I've ever had. The background noise is minimal - and the desired signals are stronger than I recalled at the old house 3 miles away. The background noise is practically non existent, from the 200 kHz remaining aeronautical beacons to MW BCB stations to tropical bands to SW BCBs, as sparsely populated as they now are. It's directional nature permitted reduction in a QRM source - the metal cylinder in my yard (buried utilities) which contains the fiber optic/twisted pair DSL modem was DFed with my Tecsun PL-660 as the culprit. In all honesty, protected from the elements - in my attic - the Wellbrook would have been fine.

                          I spent most of $400 on my Pixel simply because I had it - returns from another hobby-item's sale. I don't regret it one bit - it and the R30A - resurrected my longtime hobby. I even got my NRD-525, R8, & HF-150 out of storage and since bought a used R75 and HF-225 - all sharing the Pixel antenna. One minor regret, born from my prior experiences with power outages - no 12V power inserter for battery power. I can remedy that after I find my soldering iron! If you've never tried a decent shielded loop antenna, you need to. Whether you build or buy is up to you.

                          John

                          --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Dominique Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi folks,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins:
                          >
                          > http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf
                          >
                          > I fully agree with him !
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dominique
                          >
                          > Normandy, France
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De la part de dstremme@...
                          > Envoyé : lundi 3 février 2014 21:06
                          > À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                          > Objet : [loopantennas] Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hello one and all
                          > NEW Member here
                          > Just started working at Pixel Technologies
                          > http://www.pixelsatradio.com
                          >
                          > always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
                          > I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance
                          > I can and learn from the users what works, what would make it better etc.
                          >
                          > Thx in advance
                          > David
                          > KA0IJV
                          >




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                        • kkyahoo
                          I think the problem for UK and European users is that the Pixel can cost $700+ landed due to the shipping and the inport duties/tax etc. Regarding the reviews,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                            I think the problem for UK and European users is that the Pixel can cost $700+ landed due to the shipping and the inport duties/tax etc.
                             
                            Regarding the reviews, the one on the Pixel website compares their loop with the 1530L which is a variant of the standard 1530 designed to work better at lower frequencies rather than high. It does not compare apples with apples.
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: John
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 12:08 PM
                            Subject: [loopantennas] Re: Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop

                             

                            So, Dominique, you've tried them both and prefer the Wellbrook - or you interpret Guy's data and agree with his conclusion? Go to Pixel's site and you'll find the Pro-1 beats the Wellbrook. I wouldn't expect a commercial site to use an unflattering comparison in their advertising.

                            I certainly have built my share of antennas - TTFD, slopers, dipoles bi-Beverage, long wires - active antennas - even remotely tuned/amplified balanced loops. I have a technical background - got my FCC First Class Radiotelephone license 9/68; was a USN ET ('69-'72); taught electronics/telecommunications '75-'95; and chiefed at several FM stations and part-time at one AM station. Why would I spend most of $400 on something I could build? In retrospect, that decision three years ago was a good one.

                            I bought my Pro-1A three years ago to replace my wire antennas, whose ancient tree supports had succumbed to disease and/or the ravages of weather, the worst of which was destined to test the Pixel antenna 4/2011 & 1/2012 in two tornadoe near misses. The first one dislodged some roof shingles, as it was airborne here, but the second one turned the loop as it emptied the deck the antenna was mounted to and redistributed my wife's wind chimes, totally destroying homes a block away. I had chosen the Pixel for it's robust and modular construction - and it had paid off. Having been 'made in the USA' didn't hurt, either. Last summer found my wife and I moving - after 36.5 yr - to a garden home.

                            The new home has a Home Owner's Association - with by-laws prohibiting outside antennas. I carried my Pro-1A up the stairs to the floored tall attic and mounted it's 5 ft mast in a tripod mount and set it high and as clear of interference as I could, hooking it's RG6 feed to an existing such feed to my 'office' below. I now have the best and most QRM-free reception I've ever had. The background noise is minimal - and the desired signals are stronger than I recalled at the old house 3 miles away. The background noise is practically non existent, from the 200 kHz remaining aeronautical beacons to MW BCB stations to tropical bands to SW BCBs, as sparsely populated as they now are. It's directional nature permitted reduction in a QRM source - the metal cylinder in my yard (buried utilities) which contains the fiber optic/twisted pair DSL modem was DFed with my Tecsun PL-660 as the culprit. In all honesty, protected from the elements - in my attic - the Wellbrook would have been fine.

                            I spent most of $400 on my Pixel simply because I had it - returns from another hobby-item's sale. I don't regret it one bit - it and the R30A - resurrected my longtime hobby. I even got my NRD-525, R8, & HF-150 out of storage and since bought a used R75 and HF-225 - all sharing the Pixel antenna. One minor regret, born from my prior experiences with power outages - no 12V power inserter for battery power. I can remedy that after I find my soldering iron! If you've never tried a decent shielded loop antenna, you need to. Whether you build or buy is up to you.

                            John

                            --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Dominique Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi folks,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins:
                            >
                            > http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf
                            >
                            > I fully agree with him !
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dominique
                            >
                            > Normandy, France
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De la part de dstremme@...
                            > Envoyé : lundi 3 février 2014 21:06
                            > À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                            > Objet : [loopantennas] Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hello one and all
                            > NEW Member here
                            > Just started working at Pixel Technologies
                            > http://www.pixelsatradio.com
                            >
                            > always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
                            > I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
                            > and learn from the users what works, what would make it better etc.
                            >
                            > Thx in advance
                            > David
                            > KA0IJV
                            >

                          • Jack Smith
                            Re battery backup of the Pro-1 loops ... The power coupler supplies 20V DC (nominal) to the coax, and is normally powered with a 24V AC (RMS) transformer. It
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Re battery backup of the Pro-1 loops ...

                              The power coupler supplies 20V DC (nominal) to the coax, and is normally powered with a 24V AC (RMS) transformer. It is possible to replace the transformer with a floating DC source such as a battery, but it will need around 26V DC.  A pair of 12V gel-cell batteries in series should work. 

                              One could try a 12V-120V inverter for battery power, but from theoretical considerations it would need to be a sine wave or at least a modified sine wave inverter. And, there is always the electrical noise issue with inverters.

                              Jack K8ZOA
                              www.cliftonlaboratories.com


                              On 2/4/2014 7:08 AM, John wrote:
                               

                              So, Dominique, you've tried them both and prefer the Wellbrook - or you interpret Guy's data and agree with his conclusion? Go to Pixel's site and you'll find the Pro-1 beats the Wellbrook. I wouldn't expect a commercial site to use an unflattering comparison in their advertising.

                              I certainly have built my share of antennas - TTFD, slopers, dipoles bi-Beverage, long wires - active antennas - even remotely tuned/amplified balanced loops. I have a technical background - got my FCC First Class Radiotelephone license 9/68; was a USN ET ('69-'72); taught electronics/telecommunications '75-'95; and chiefed at several FM stations and part-time at one AM station. Why would I spend most of $400 on something I could build? In retrospect, that decision three years ago was a good one.

                              I bought my Pro-1A three years ago to replace my wire antennas, whose ancient tree supports had succumbed to disease and/or the ravages of weather, the worst of which was destined to test the Pixel antenna 4/2011 & 1/2012 in two tornadoe near misses. The first one dislodged some roof shingles, as it was airborne here, but the second one turned the loop as it emptied the deck the antenna was mounted to and redistributed my wife's wind chimes, totally destroying homes a block away. I had chosen the Pixel for it's robust and modular construction - and it had paid off. Having been 'made in the USA' didn't hurt, either. Last summer found my wife and I moving - after 36.5 yr - to a garden home.

                              The new home has a Home Owner's Association - with by-laws prohibiting outside antennas. I carried my Pro-1A up the stairs to the floored tall attic and mounted it's 5 ft mast in a tripod mount and set it high and as clear of interference as I could, hooking it's RG6 feed to an existing such feed to my 'office' below. I now have the best and most QRM-free reception I've ever had. The background noise is minimal - and the desired signals are stronger than I recalled at the old house 3 miles away. The background noise is practically non existent, from the 200 kHz remaining aeronautical beacons to MW BCB stations to tropical bands to SW BCBs, as sparsely populated as they now are. It's directional nature permitted reduction in a QRM source - the metal cylinder in my yard (buried utilities) which contains the fiber optic/twisted pair DSL modem was DFed with my Tecsun PL-660 as the culprit. In all honesty, protected from the elements - in my attic - the Wellbrook would have been fine.

                              I spent most of $400 on my Pixel simply because I had it - returns from another hobby-item's sale. I don't regret it one bit - it and the R30A - resurrected my longtime hobby. I even got my NRD-525, R8, & HF-150 out of storage and since bought a used R75 and HF-225 - all sharing the Pixel antenna. One minor regret, born from my prior experiences with power outages - no 12V power inserter for battery power. I can remedy that after I find my soldering iron! If you've never tried a decent shielded loop antenna, you need to. Whether you build or buy is up to you.

                              John

                              --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, "Dominique Kremp" <dominique.kremp@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi folks,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Just have a look at this review from Guy Atkins:
                              >
                              > http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/reviews/ALA1530-vs-RFPRO-1AReview.pdf
                              >
                              > I fully agree with him !
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dominique
                              >
                              > Normandy, France
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > De : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:loopantennas@yahoogroups.com] De la part de dstremme@...
                              > Envoyé : lundi 3 février 2014 21:06
                              > À : loopantennas@yahoogroups.com
                              > Objet : [loopantennas] Pixel-RF-PRO-1B receive magnetic Loop
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello one and all
                              > NEW Member here
                              > Just started working at Pixel Technologies
                              > http://www.pixelsatradio.com
                              >
                              > always looking for product feedback, suggestions, etc.
                              > I'm learning the product as I go - willing to provide what assistance I can
                              > and learn from the users what works, what would make it better etc.
                              >
                              > Thx in advance
                              > David
                              > KA0IJV
                              >


                            • John
                              Jack, Doug Talley of Pixel told me that the amp would work with a dedicated 12V power inserter when I contacted him re the improvements of the 1B loop over my
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                Jack,

                                Doug Talley of Pixel told me that the amp would work with a dedicated 12V power inserter when I contacted him re the improvements of the 1B loop over my 1A. After sending him pictures of my late 1A and it's amp, he determined it to be the then later variant. I guess my question is simple - will my Pro-1A work with a dedicated 12V negative ground power inserter for 'emergency' - or portable - use? I have appropriately sized diecast cases, connectors, etc, and some 1-10 mH rf chokes rated at several hundred mA, too. I should have taken him up at the time on his free offer - at least I'd no. Perhaps, as the designer of the preamp, Jack, you might comment on the suitability of this. If the bias will be way off - and the gain suffers - perhaps we'll look for a 'Plan B'!

                                John

                                --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Re battery backup of the Pro-1 loops ...
                                >
                                > The power coupler supplies 20V DC (nominal) to the coax, and is normally
                                > powered with a 24V AC (RMS) transformer. It is possible to replace the
                                > transformer with a floating DC source such as a battery, but it will
                                > need around 26V DC. A pair of 12V gel-cell batteries in series should
                                > work.
                                >
                                > One could try a 12V-120V inverter for battery power, but from
                                > theoretical considerations it would need to be a sine wave or at least a
                                > modified sine wave inverter. And, there is always the electrical noise
                                > issue with inverters.
                                >
                                > Jack K8ZOA
                                > www.cliftonlaboratories.com
                                >
                                >
                              • Jack Smith
                                John: The loop amplifier has an on-board 13.8V DC regulator. This has an overhead of 2.2V, typical, 2.7V worst case. If you use the worst case for regulator
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                  John:

                                  The loop amplifier has an on-board 13.8V DC regulator. This has an overhead of 2.2V, typical, 2.7V worst case. If you use the worst case for regulator and overhead plus internal voltage drop in components ahead of the regulator, the MINIMUM DC voltage measured at the output jack on the loop amplifier is 16.8V.  As a designer, I have to use the worst case or else risk having some unacceptable level of failure to operate.

                                  If the supply voltage is below this value, correct operation cannot be guaranteed. In the best case with 12V, it will sort of work, but none of the specifications will be met.  Maybe that will be OK under some conditions, but the internal voltage regulator will drop out of regulation. The particular regulator used will "try" to maintain the output voltage at 13.8V, but with only 12V on the input, it will obviously fail. When these regulators are operated with lower input voltage than the defined output, they have a 1 to 2V drop, so the loop amp will see 10 or 11V on the internal "regulated" supply rail and as I said all performance data is based on 13.8V, so performance will be degraded.

                                  Jack K8ZOA



                                  On 2/4/2014 9:36 AM, John wrote:
                                   


                                  Jack,

                                  Doug Talley of Pixel told me that the amp would work with a dedicated 12V power inserter when I contacted him re the improvements of the 1B loop over my 1A. After sending him pictures of my late 1A and it's amp, he determined it to be the then later variant. I guess my question is simple - will my Pro-1A work with a dedicated 12V negative ground power inserter for 'emergency' - or portable - use? I have appropriately sized diecast cases, connectors, etc, and some 1-10 mH rf chokes rated at several hundred mA, too. I should have taken him up at the time on his free offer - at least I'd no. Perhaps, as the designer of the preamp, Jack, you might comment on the suitability of this. If the bias will be way off - and the gain suffers - perhaps we'll look for a 'Plan B'!

                                  John

                                  --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Re battery backup of the Pro-1 loops ...
                                  >
                                  > The power coupler supplies 20V DC (nominal) to the coax, and is normally
                                  > powered with a 24V AC (RMS) transformer. It is possible to replace the
                                  > transformer with a floating DC source such as a battery, but it will
                                  > need around 26V DC. A pair of 12V gel-cell batteries in series should
                                  > work.
                                  >
                                  > One could try a 12V-120V inverter for battery power, but from
                                  > theoretical considerations it would need to be a sine wave or at least a
                                  > modified sine wave inverter. And, there is always the electrical noise
                                  > issue with inverters.
                                  >
                                  > Jack K8ZOA
                                  > www.cliftonlaboratories.com
                                  >
                                  >



                                • John
                                  If you need help in deciding between the Pixel and Wellbrook units, consider this; BNC connectors, a la the Wellbrook unit, are not weather-rated and are most
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                    If you need help in deciding between the Pixel and Wellbrook units, consider this; BNC connectors, a la the Wellbrook unit, are not weather-rated and are most often used with RG-58, even premium examples of which do not have 100% shield. RG-6 Quad Shield and it's connectors have 100% shielding and are more reasonably priced - and weatherproof. It won't matter re the weather-rated nature if you use the antenna inside. Still, incomplete shielding in jumper cables can pick up locally generated QRM. For that matter, the poor internal and case shielding of your very radio, like my Palstar R30A, can pickup QRM!

                                    I would suggest reviewing eham reviews of the antennas (Under 'Antennas: HF Vertical and Wire'.) for more unbiased opinions - as well as mine (JRT3) in the Pixel heading(4 pages) - and Guy's (4NRADIO) in both the Pixel and Wellbrook listings (2 pages). He references his comparison, available from the Wellbrook site, and gives the Pixel it's lowest rating of 3/5, the couple of 4/5 ratings highlighting the need for a rotor. The longer running Wellbrook does have fewer reviewers - and many herald the excellent customer service - but they are all 5/5 (The Pixel gets a 4.8/5!), and apparently doen't need the customer service as much. In all seriousness, they are likely very close in performance - and a poor choice cannot be made.

                                    John
                                  • John
                                    Jack, Thank you for your reply. You could have chosen a +10V internal rail - and a 10V regulator - but, no.... Yeah, you probably designed the amp with IM
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                      Jack,

                                      Thank you for your reply. You could have chosen a +10V internal rail - and a 10V regulator - but, no....

                                      Yeah, you probably designed the amp with IM requirements - and high linearity, etc. Phooey! As my 12V 14+ A-Hr backup battery runs 12-13.2V, I guess I'll just have to 'try' it and see. It will be for emergency/loss of power, much less common in my newer home, anyway. Probably time to get out my collection of parts destined for my homebrew remote loops... if I could just find my soldering pencils... I did find my 200W iron... moving isn't fun!

                                      Thanks again!

                                      John

                                      --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > John:
                                      >
                                      > The loop amplifier has an on-board 13.8V DC regulator. This has an
                                      > overhead of 2.2V, typical, 2.7V worst case. If you use the worst case
                                      > for regulator and overhead plus internal voltage drop in components
                                      > ahead of the regulator, the MINIMUM DC voltage measured at the output
                                      > jack on the loop amplifier is 16.8V. As a designer, I have to use the
                                      > worst case or else risk having some unacceptable level of failure to
                                      > operate.
                                      >
                                      > If the supply voltage is below this value, correct operation cannot be
                                      > guaranteed. In the best case with 12V, it will sort of work, but none of
                                      > the specifications will be met. Maybe that will be OK under some
                                      > conditions, but the internal voltage regulator will drop out of
                                      > regulation. The particular regulator used will "try" to maintain the
                                      > output voltage at 13.8V, but with only 12V on the input, it will
                                      > obviously fail. When these regulators are operated with lower input
                                      > voltage than the defined output, they have a 1 to 2V drop, so the loop
                                      > amp will see 10 or 11V on the internal "regulated" supply rail and as I
                                      > said all performance data is based on 13.8V, so performance will be
                                      > degraded.
                                      >
                                      > Jack K8ZOA
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 2/4/2014 9:36 AM, John wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Jack,
                                      > >
                                      > > Doug Talley of Pixel told me that the amp would work with a dedicated
                                      > > 12V power inserter when I contacted him re the improvements of the 1B
                                      > > loop over my 1A. After sending him pictures of my late 1A and it's
                                      > > amp, he determined it to be the then later variant. I guess my
                                      > > question is simple - will my Pro-1A work with a dedicated 12V negative
                                      > > ground power inserter for 'emergency' - or portable - use? I have
                                      > > appropriately sized diecast cases, connectors, etc, and some 1-10 mH
                                      > > rf chokes rated at several hundred mA, too. I should have taken him up
                                      > > at the time on his free offer - at least I'd no. Perhaps, as the
                                      > > designer of the preamp, Jack, you might comment on the suitability of
                                      > > this. If the bias will be way off - and the gain suffers - perhaps
                                      > > we'll look for a 'Plan B'!
                                      > >
                                      > > John
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In loopantennas@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Re battery backup of the Pro-1 loops ...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The power coupler supplies 20V DC (nominal) to the coax, and is
                                      > > normally
                                      > > > powered with a 24V AC (RMS) transformer. It is possible to replace the
                                      > > > transformer with a floating DC source such as a battery, but it will
                                      > > > need around 26V DC. A pair of 12V gel-cell batteries in series should
                                      > > > work.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > One could try a 12V-120V inverter for battery power, but from
                                      > > > theoretical considerations it would need to be a sine wave or at
                                      > > least a
                                      > > > modified sine wave inverter. And, there is always the electrical noise
                                      > > > issue with inverters.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Jack K8ZOA
                                      > > > www.cliftonlaboratories.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Chris Trask
                                      ... In my design (in the group files section) I chose a 12V supply rail as it was best suited for direct operation from 12V batteries, such as Gel Cells, which
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                        >
                                        >Thank you for your reply. You could have chosen a +10V internal rail - and a 10V regulator - but, no....
                                        >
                                        >Yeah, you probably designed the amp with IM requirements - and high linearity, etc. Phooey! As my 12V 14+
                                        >A-Hr backup battery runs 12-13.2V, I guess I'll just have to 'try' it and see. It will be for emergency/loss
                                        >of power, much less common in my newer home, anyway. Probably time to get out my collection of parts destined
                                        >for my homebrew remote loops... if I could just find my soldering pencils... I did find my 200W iron...
                                        >moving isn't fun!
                                        >

                                        In my design (in the group files section) I chose a 12V supply rail as it was best suited for direct operation from 12V batteries, such as Gel Cells, which would take care of any concerns of power supply induced noise. The biasing of the two stages was selected to give a decent power consumption vs. performance. At HF frequencies the NF performance is secondary to IMD performance due to terrestrial and galactic background noise and the presence of numerous high-power broadcast stations.

                                        The performance of my amplifier exceeds that of Pixel and Wellbrook, having a 2.42dB NF at 10MHz. To get better IMD performance than I attained would require a 2W or more power amplifier, which would at least double the power consumption. Using an older transistor such as the 2N3553 or a newer device such as the NE46134 in the output stage and boosting the biasing current to 100mA or so would do it.


                                        Chris

                                        When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                                        - Hunter S. Thompson
                                      • Andrew Ikin
                                        Chris Trask wrote on Feb 4. In my design (in the group files section) I chose a 12V supply rail as it was best suited for direct operation from 12V batteries,
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                          Chris Trask wrote on Feb 4.
                                           
                                           
                                          "In my design (in the group files section) I chose a 12V supply rail as it was best suited for direct operation from 12V batteries, such as Gel Cells, which would take care of any concerns of power supply induced noise. The biasing of the two stages was selected to give a decent power consumption vs. performance. At HF frequencies the NF performance is secondary to IMD performance due to terrestrial and galactic background noise and the presence of numerous high-power broadcast stations.

                                          The performance of my amplifier exceeds that of Pixel and Wellbrook, having a 2.42dB NF at 10MHz. To get better IMD performance than I attained would require a 2W or more power amplifier, which would at least double the power consumption. Using an older transistor such as the 2N3553 or a newer device such as the NE46134 in the output stage and boosting the biasing current to 100mA or so would do it.


                                          Chris"
                                           
                                           
                                          Hello Chris,
                                           
                                          Running  Pixel loops from a Wellbrook ALA1530 Antenna Interface with a 12V dc supply makes little difference unless you are measuring the IOP3 which only changes by a few dBm.
                                           
                                          Concerning your last paragragh which you have repeated many times. I am not aware that any one else in the group has been able to get your design working. The NF of Pixel and Wellbrook loops is in the region of 2dB; so I don't see an issue here. Wellbrooks ALA1530S+ Imperium has a much more impressive IOP3 of +55dBm.
                                           
                                           
                                          73
                                           
                                          Andrew
                                        • Andrew Ikin
                                          John wrote on Feb 4, If you need help in deciding between the Pixel and Wellbrook units, consider this; BNC connectors, a la the Wellbrook unit, are not
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Feb 4, 2014
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                                            John wrote on Feb 4,
                                             
                                             
                                            "If you need help in deciding between the Pixel and Wellbrook units, consider this; BNC connectors, a la the Wellbrook unit, are not weather-rated and are most often used with RG-58, even premium examples of which do not have 100% shield. RG-6 Quad Shield and it's connectors have 100% shielding and are more reasonably priced - and weatherproof. It won't matter re the weather-rated nature if you use the antenna inside. Still, incomplete shielding in jumper cables can pick up locally generated QRM. For that matter, the poor internal and case shielding of your very radio, like my Palstar R30A, can pickup QRM!

                                            I would suggest reviewing eham reviews of the antennas (Under 'Antennas: HF Vertical and Wire'.) for more unbiased opinions - as well as mine (JRT3) in the Pixel heading(4 pages) - and Guy's (4NRADIO) in both the Pixel and Wellbrook listings (2 pages). He references his comparison, available from the Wellbrook site, and gives the Pixel it's lowest rating of 3/5, the couple of 4/5 ratings highlighting the need for a rotor. The longer running Wellbrook does have fewer reviewers - and many herald the excellent customer service - but they are all 5/5 (The Pixel gets a 4.8/5!), and apparently doen't need the customer service as much. In all seriousness, they are likely very close in performance - and a poor choice cannot be made.

                                            John"
                                             
                                             
                                             
                                            Hello John,
                                             
                                            Most coaxial connectors are not "weather rated"; they require the user to do this, either by using special tape or in Wellbrook's case using a PVC boot filled with Vaseline; this makes for easy connexion and dis-connexion.
                                             
                                            100% shielded cable will have little effect on QRN because of the common mode pick-up with unbalanced cable.  If you have an issue with common mode pick-up then the use of common mode chokes and  1:1 isolation transformer at the Rx can help.
                                             
                                            Also you need to consider that the system NF is set by the loop antenna amplifier. It highly unlikely that feeder noise pick-up would degrade the antenna, unless this run is very long.
                                             
                                            Btw, Guys Atkins a couple years back noticed a noise issue with quad screen cable. We didn't get to the bottom of it, but I surmised that the problem may be to do with the use of dis-similar metals ( copper/aluminium ) for the screen i.e. any moisture could cause electrolytic reaction resulting in noise voltages.
                                             
                                            Kind regards
                                             
                                            Andrew
                                             
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