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Re: Rusting ?. Really ?

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  • David Jenkins
    I also agree... :) There is a splendid book about maintaining the Lotus 7 (the name of which escapes me at the moment). In that book he describes the sort of
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1, 2003
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      I also agree... :)

      There is a splendid book about maintaining the Lotus 7 (the name of
      which escapes me at the moment). In that book he describes the sort
      of chassis repairs that may be necessary, and the most common is the
      chassis members on the side of the cockpit area rusting away.

      The main reason for this rusting is _external_ water getting trapped
      between the steel tubing and the aluminium sheet. The simple answer
      for us is to stop any water getting into this are, by the use of
      silicone or PU sealant.

      No other areas were highlighted as being prone to rust - and some
      Lotus 7's are getting pretty old now!

      David

      --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_gusterson"
      <stephen.gusterson@n...> wrote:
      >
      > I agree
      >
      > After 3 years of being on lists like this I see people worried about
      > chasis rust.
      >
      > The metal is 1.6mm thick. A normal car is about half that.
      >
      > Its unlikely you are gonna drive an open car much in the rain, you
      > most likely will garage it. Not a huge chance of rust.
      >
      > Then, loadsa people seem to sell the car after 2 - 3 years. I havnt
      > seen anyone mention having a car prior to 1998. Perhaps cos its 'pre
      > book' but can anyone genuinely see themselves having the car in 10
      > years time......
      >
      >
      > atb
      >
      > steve
      >
      >
      > --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "bare2510" <barenekid@h...> wrote:
      > > Ahh..C'mon
      > > Seems a bit over the top (Hillarious actually) to be genuinely
      > > worried about the innards of the tubing on yer homemade
      > car "rusting
      > > out".. at least in my Lifetime. Even Original Sevens rarely suffer
      > > this problem..after 30 years.. besides it is not an Airframe it's
      > not
      > > gonna fall out of the Sky.
      > > Reality is most owners only keep their (Lotii) for a couple of
      > > years... No idea about Locost ownership tho :-).. report back in a
      > > couple of Decades.
      > >
      > >
      > > bare.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Frans Trip <tripf@v...> wrote:
      > > > An scuba air tank is a bad example
      > > > It is filled with DRY and clean air.
      > > > DRY is 0-5% humidity, this is to prefent rust !!!!
      > > > A chassis is subject to air 0 to 100% humidity...
      > > > And is so a real subject to rust.
      > > >
      > > > Greetings from The Netherlands
      > > >
      > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
      > > > Van: George Cushing [mailto:pinyachta@y...]
      > > > Verzonden: donderdag 31 juli 2003 14:53
      > > > Aan: locost@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Onderwerp: [locost] Rusting
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > David Taylor wrote:
      > > >
      > > > "Piper cub and many other tube constructed aircraft
      > > > are internally pickled with boiling linseed oil."
      > > >
      > > > Think you'll find that it's "boiled" linseed oil. Of
      > > > course it's not boiled at all, but is linseed oil with
      > > > chemical added to cause it to harden.
      > > >
      > > > Aircraft Spruce sells "tube oil" which they say will
      > > > climb the inner tube walls and seal pinholes in welds.
      > > >
      > > > Richard Finch (Welder's Handbook) states he has opened
      > > > up decade old airframes and found no significant rust.
      > > > I let a full SCUBA air tank sit for 20 years and when
      > > > we scaled the interior there wasn't enough rust to
      > > > cover the palm of your hand, in spite of plenty of
      > > > oxygen being available. So I wouldn't worry about
      > > > internal rust.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Geo. Cushing, Delanson, NY, US
      > > ]
    • Liam
      I also also agree... I didn t catch the beginning - but i thought it specifically about worrying about your chassis rusting from the inside out if you have a
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 1, 2003
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        I also also agree...

        I didn't catch the beginning - but i thought it specifically about worrying
        about your chassis rusting from the inside out if you have a bit of rust
        started on your tubes and don't shove a load of waxoyl or something in
        there. Simply can't happen IMO - providing your chassis is sealed (i.e.
        properly welded and PU or similar sealed where panels are riveted on)
        then the little bit of oxygen in there will get used up, and after that there
        can be no further rusting. Your chassis can't eat itself up from the
        inside.

        Cheers

        Liam

        On 1 Aug 2003 at 7:27, David Jenkins wrote:

        > I also agree... :)
        >
        > There is a splendid book about maintaining the Lotus 7 (the name of
        > which escapes me at the moment). In that book he describes the sort
        > of chassis repairs that may be necessary, and the most common is the
        > chassis members on the side of the cockpit area rusting away.
        >
        > The main reason for this rusting is _external_ water getting trapped
        > between the steel tubing and the aluminium sheet. The simple answer
        > for us is to stop any water getting into this are, by the use of
        > silicone or PU sealant.
        >
        > No other areas were highlighted as being prone to rust - and some
        > Lotus 7's are getting pretty old now!
        >
        > David
        >
        > --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_gusterson"
        > <stephen.gusterson@n...> wrote:
        > >
        > > I agree
        > >
        > > After 3 years of being on lists like this I see people worried about
        > > chasis rust.
        > >
        > > The metal is 1.6mm thick. A normal car is about half that.
        > >
        > > Its unlikely you are gonna drive an open car much in the rain, you
        > > most likely will garage it. Not a huge chance of rust.
        > >
        > > Then, loadsa people seem to sell the car after 2 - 3 years. I havnt
        > > seen anyone mention having a car prior to 1998. Perhaps cos its 'pre
        > > book' but can anyone genuinely see themselves having the car in 10
        > > years time......
        > >
        > >
        > > atb
        > >
        > > steve
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "bare2510" <barenekid@h...> wrote:
        > > > Ahh..C'mon
        > > > Seems a bit over the top (Hillarious actually) to be genuinely
        > > > worried about the innards of the tubing on yer homemade
        > > car "rusting
        > > > out".. at least in my Lifetime. Even Original Sevens rarely suffer
        > > > this problem..after 30 years.. besides it is not an Airframe it's
        > > not
        > > > gonna fall out of the Sky.
        > > > Reality is most owners only keep their (Lotii) for a couple of
        > > > years... No idea about Locost ownership tho :-).. report back in a
        > > > couple of Decades.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > bare.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Frans Trip <tripf@v...> wrote:
        > > > > An scuba air tank is a bad example
        > > > > It is filled with DRY and clean air.
        > > > > DRY is 0-5% humidity, this is to prefent rust !!!!
        > > > > A chassis is subject to air 0 to 100% humidity...
        > > > > And is so a real subject to rust.
        > > > >
        > > > > Greetings from The Netherlands
        > > > >
        > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
        > > > > Van: George Cushing [mailto:pinyachta@y...]
        > > > > Verzonden: donderdag 31 juli 2003 14:53
        > > > > Aan: locost@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Onderwerp: [locost] Rusting
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > David Taylor wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > "Piper cub and many other tube constructed aircraft
        > > > > are internally pickled with boiling linseed oil."
        > > > >
        > > > > Think you'll find that it's "boiled" linseed oil. Of
        > > > > course it's not boiled at all, but is linseed oil with
        > > > > chemical added to cause it to harden.
        > > > >
        > > > > Aircraft Spruce sells "tube oil" which they say will
        > > > > climb the inner tube walls and seal pinholes in welds.
        > > > >
        > > > > Richard Finch (Welder's Handbook) states he has opened
        > > > > up decade old airframes and found no significant rust.
        > > > > I let a full SCUBA air tank sit for 20 years and when
        > > > > we scaled the interior there wasn't enough rust to
        > > > > cover the palm of your hand, in spite of plenty of
        > > > > oxygen being available. So I wouldn't worry about
        > > > > internal rust.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Geo. Cushing, Delanson, NY, US
        > > > ]
        >
        >
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      • George Cushing
        Frans wrote: It is a HQ steel, A Scuba tank is used at 200 or 300 Bar (Depending on type of tank) and in The Netherlands need to be tested every 4/5 year
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 1, 2003
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          Frans wrote:
          It is a HQ steel,

          "A Scuba tank is used at 200 or 300 Bar (Depending on
          type of tank) and in The Netherlands need to be tested
          every 4/5 year (hydrostatic to 300 - 400 bar)"

          Pretty much the same here. My tank dates from 1967 and
          has to be visually checked for internal rust annually.
          I have been told to bleed the pressized air off before
          storing the tank to reduce the oxygen present, and
          thus rusting. Aluminum is also used for tanks. These
          tanks are very much like welding tanks in construction
          and are filled to the same pressures.

          What Finch actually said about rust prevention was:

          "Rarely is it neccessary to add oil to preserve the
          inside of a 4130-steel tubular structure. If moisture
          can't get inside the tubes, they won't rust. Most rust
          occurs outside. Paint will protect it there. Oil is
          heavy, messy and may contain chemicals harmful to
          4130. I've repaired rusty fuselages from airplanes
          built the '30's, and the rust was on the outside, not
          inside the tubing."

          I imgaine that mild steel has a higher phosphorus
          content than 4130, and therefore may be more prone to
          rust, but the chances of crapping up your welds is
          higher with the oil.

          =====

          Geo. Cushing, Delanson, NY, US

          http://www.georgecushing.net
        • David Jenkins
          I think that was what I was saying! :) My point was that even the old Lotuses (Loti?) rarely rusted from the inside out, despite C.Chapman s total lack of
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
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            I think that was what I was saying! :)

            My point was that even the old Lotuses (Loti?) rarely rusted from the
            inside out, despite C.Chapman's total lack of rust-proofing - they
            invariably rusted from the outside in.

            David

            --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "Liam" <dr.cool@n...> wrote:
            > I also also agree...
            >
            > I didn't catch the beginning - but i thought it specifically about
            > worrying about your chassis rusting from the inside out
          • Russell Smithies
            EW tube is available pre-galvanized (electroplated, not dipped) so that may be the best idea if building new. Makes it a bugger to weld though :-( Russell
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
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              EW tube is available pre-galvanized (electroplated, not dipped) so that may
              be the best idea if building new.
              Makes it a bugger to weld though :-(

              Russell


              > Message: 1
              > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 07:33:17 -0000
              > From: "David Jenkins" <d_w_jenkins@...>
              > Subject: Re: Rusting ?. Really ?
              >
              > I think that was what I was saying! :)
              >
              > My point was that even the old Lotuses (Loti?) rarely rusted from the
              > inside out, despite C.Chapman's total lack of rust-proofing - they
              > invariably rusted from the outside in.
              >
              > David
              >
              > --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "Liam" <dr.cool@n...> wrote:
              > > I also also agree...
              > >
              > > I didn't catch the beginning - but i thought it specifically about
              > > worrying about your chassis rusting from the inside out
              >
              >
            • Wayne Evans
              I ve read where you have to be very careful welding coated tubing as the gasses can be quite bad for your health. It makes the welding job that much more
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
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                I've read where you have to be very careful welding coated tubing as the gasses can be quite bad for your health. It makes the welding job that much more difficult also and you have to remove the coating every where you weld which sort of cancels out it's benefit. It seems hardly worth it.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Russell Smithies
                To: locost@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:13 AM
                Subject: [locost] Re: Rusting ?. Really ?


                EW tube is available pre-galvanized (electroplated, not dipped) so that may
                be the best idea if building new.
                Makes it a bugger to weld though :-(

                Russell


                > Message: 1
                > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 07:33:17 -0000
                > From: "David Jenkins" <d_w_jenkins@...>
                > Subject: Re: Rusting ?. Really ?
                >
                > I think that was what I was saying! :)
                >
                > My point was that even the old Lotuses (Loti?) rarely rusted from the
                > inside out, despite C.Chapman's total lack of rust-proofing - they
                > invariably rusted from the outside in.
                >
                > David
                >
                > --- In locost@yahoogroups.com, "Liam" <dr.cool@n...> wrote:
                > > I also also agree...
                > >
                > > I didn't catch the beginning - but i thought it specifically about
                > > worrying about your chassis rusting from the inside out
                >
                >




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