Re: [llama] Does anyone have any ideas...
- just as a side note, Dr Anderson is at the University of Tennessee if anyone wants to contact him.Blessings,
From: lorene grassick <llamahi@...>
To: llama <email@example.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 4:16 pm
Subject: Re: [llama] Does anyone have any ideas...Is this what you wanted?Ohio State ReportOn Aug 5, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Jim Krowka <nubinnubin@...> wrote:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Many just do it once per year. Common practice out here is in the spring after the weather warms up a little and parasite load increases. Summers are usually dry here so parasite population decreases unless pastures are wetlands or remain moist. Fall when the moisture increases and temps remain relatively warm the parasite population increases again. Therefore, spring and fall are the recommended times to deworm up here in W. Oregon and likely in your area as well.Yes,,,that is correct information regarding the most critical times of the year when fecal testing needs to be done………………..
Parasite Control Update from Ohio State
David E Anderson, DVM, MS
International Camelid Institute
College of Veterinary Medicine
The Ohio State University
As you know, we have been performing parasite research fairly intensively
during the past 3 years. I would like to share some of the findings we have.
MENINGEAL WORM PROTECTION
Our pharmacology research funded by the Ohio River Valley Llama
Association) indicated that injectable ivermectin (IVR) is absorbed well
into the blood stream and provides blood levels for about 20 days. Thus
injectable IVR can be given every 30 days for meningeal worm control. Oral
IVR gets absorbed less well and provides blood levels for about 12 to 14
days. Thus a dosing interval of 21 days is expected. Pour-on IVR is
essentially not absorbed and would NOT be expected to provide protection
against meningeal worm infection.
INTESTINAL WORM PROTECTION
We have found that Ivermectin at 1 cc per 100 pounds body weight
does not do as good a job as we would like in eliminating some intestinal
worms. Of particular interest are whip worms and Nematodirus worms - these
can cause severe problems including weight loss and low blood protein. At
1.5 to 2 cc per 100 pounds we see a better response for Nematodirus, but
these two worms can persist. The same is true for Doramectin - no real
difference between it and IVR.
We have found that fenbendazole (safeguard or panacur) given at
label doses (cattle = 5 mg/kg, sheep = 10 mg/kg) does not do as well as we
would expect. At 20 mg/kg we see excellent response and the whip worm and
Nematodirus are controlled. Thus, we use 1 cc per 10 pounds of the 10%
suspension when using safeguard. If there is an established whip worm
problem, you probably need to use this product for 3 to 5 days in a row!
We do not feel that fenbendazole is as reliable in preventing
Meningeal worm infection as is IVR. Thus, we are currently recommending
that you use IVR monthly to prevent meningeal worm infection and use
fenbendazole every 3 to 4 months to control whip worms and nematodirus.
As always, consult with your veterinarian and have fecal egg
counts and parasite identification done to see what types of worms you have
on the farm. This is critical to developing a FARM SPECIFIC parasite
control strategy. If you have a low stocking density, you may find that you
do not need to de-worm as much. If you have a high stocking density, you
may find that things are getting out of control !
CAMELLID FECAL ANALYSIS
Commonly used gravity fecal floatation techniques do not seem to be very
sensitive for llama and alpaca fecal parasites. The traditional floatation
media including he McMaster's technique detect parasite burdens of more
than 100 eggs per gram of feces. We commonly see problems develop in llamas
and alpacas with egg per gram of feces in the range of 30 to 60. A special
technique, the modified Stoll's Technique is needed to detect this low
concentration of eggs. That is the test of choice for intestinal parasites
of llamas and alpacas.
We are presently compiling information on the spectrum of parasites that
infect Llamas and Alpacas and the drugs used to control these infections.
Our purpose is to recognize the onset of drug resistance in camelid
parasites due to regular use of anthelmintics (dewormers). Any llama or
alpaca owner may submit feces for examination. Please fill out the
following questionnaire and send it in with the fecal specimen. There is a
$18 charge for each fecal test run. That will allow us to evaluate the use
of anthelmintics and the parasites present in our llama and alpaca
Number of camellids on farm:
Any other livestock:
Water source (pond, creek, well, city water):
Please list all the anthelmintics (dewormers) you use on your farm (in the
past several years), the dosages for each that you use, and when the last
dose was given:
Please describe when you begin to treat each year, how often you treat, and
if or when you discontinue treatments at any predetermined time of the year.
Do you work with a local veterinarian for parasite control?
The preferred technique for fecal sample collection is to individually
house each animal selected and collect FRESH feces into plastic zip-lock
bags. Alternatively, you can collect the feces from the rectum using a well
lubricated gloved hand (have your veterinarian work with you on that!). It
is important that you know WHO that sample came from. You should collect
from at least 5 animals unless you have fewer than 5 on your farm. Put the
bags into the refrigerator and mail by overnight service in a styrofoam
container (water tight container) on cold-packs.
Mail to: Dr. Cliff Monahan
1900 Coffey Road
Ohio State University
Columbus, Ohio 43210
Cost per sample for parasite identification is $18. A detailed report will
be returned to you for use with your local veterinarian in determining to
adequacy of control of intestinal parasites on your farm.
STOCKING DENSITY OF LLAMAS AND ALPACAS
This is a good question and one that we have been looking into. We have
initiated a series of research projects looking into management and social
The following is our research experience with shelters:
1. We have found that alpacas and llamas will not use an three sided open
shelter unless the weather is bad (cold, raining, snowing, etc). We have
found that 1 or 2 animals may use a 12 x 16 foot (192 sq feet) three sided
open faced shelter with a 12 foot roof to "loaf" in. In inclement weather,
12 to 16 alpacas will crowd in and 8 to 10 llamas. Given a choice, they
will not crowd in more than one animal per 3 x 6 (18 sq feet) foot space.
They crowd in when the temperature is less than 20 F especially if humidity
is high and overcast weather. When sunny, they will remain outdoors at all
Temps above 10 to 15 F.
- They will not use these sheds at a greater density than 1 animal
per 6 x 8 foot space even in inclement weather when temps are > 90 F. The
low roof does not allow effective cooling and ventilation.
2. We have found that alpacas and llamas will preferentially stay within a
three sided open faced barn that is 30 x 60 feet with a 20 foot roof rather
than stay out doors. Even on sunny days where temps are > 30 F, they stay
in the barn only coming out intermittently. They will easily stay in the
barn during hot weather.
- This is an effect of 'individual space infringement' I think.
When they stay in the large barn, they stay anywhere from 2 to 10 feet away
from each other. They tend to use 1/2 of that barn and dung pile the other
- Thus, I think that social stress is based on the ceiling height
and depth of the barn as much as anything. I would prefer a long, deep barn
with a high ceiling.
The following is our research experience with pasture lots:
1. We have had 1 acre lots with stocking density ranging from 5 to 20
alpacas per acre and from 6 to 18 llamas per acre. At stocking density
greater than 10 alpacas or llamas per acre we start to see "social
starvation" - getting thin despite adequate nutrition and 24 hour access to
food free choice. Thus, we have to spread out feeders to decrease the feed
stocking density when animals are housed at the higher rates.
- Thus, I think that social stress begins at more than 8 to 10
animals competing for a single food source area (1 hay pile, 1 feed bunker,
2. We have found that dung piles (when rare or no cleaning is done)
accumulate until there are 2 or 3 primary piles and 6 to 8 secondary piles
over a two year period. These end up covering 15 to 20 % of the acre thus
reducing the available grazing space.
I recommend to our clients that they perform body condition scoring at
least every 1 to 2 months. That means getting your hands on the animals and
actually thinking about their body condition at a regular interval. I use
LaRue Johnson's 1 to 10 BCS system where 10 = fatal obesity and 1 = fatal
skinniness. If the herd is getting to be diverse (e.g. 1/3 4 or less, 1/3 5
or 6, and 1/3 7 or more) then something needs to be addressed (e.g. feed
bunk size, housing, etc.)
That has been our experience with varying stocking density of shelters and
pens during the past 2 years.
We will be doing some grazing research this year using INFRARED PHOTOGRAPHY
TECHNOLOGY. If you have an interest in helping fund grazing research,
please let me know. The cost of this research is about $25,000.00 and we
need your help!
David E Anderson, DVM, MS
Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Surgeons
Associate Professor of Surgery, Food Animal
601 Vernon L Tharp Street
College of Veterinary Medicine
The Ohio State University
Columbus, Ohio 43210
VISIT OUR WEB-SITES:
- I'm afraid that Yosemite has become less llama friendly since then. I am pretty certain we are not allowed on that trail anymore. The equestrians have more money and speak louder than we do.They even balk at me doing llama day hikes in the Valley, in the winter, when the horses are out of the Valley stables. I haven't talked much with the new superintendent yet, but I don't have much hope he would change the rules to make the Park more llama friendly.
From: llamapacker <llamapacking@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 6:54 PM
Subject: [llama] Yosemite Park......... Looks like a llama....kind of?
Got an invite back in either 1988 or 1989 with Christine with her three LLamas. We were suppose to do some camping in Yosemite Valley but thought about Little Yosemite Valley near Vernal Falls. Right idea, wrong day. We were up about half way up the pathway to the top of the rim. Cliff on the right side with air on the left to the pool at the bottom with rocks, of course. There was a few hikers ahead of us but there was six horses with riders coming down. One hiker yelled out there are LLamas on the pathway. The first two riders dismounted quickly and grabed their reins stopping their horses and preventing them from doing anything stupid. The other four had four choices. Stop, Climb the cliff, learn how to fly to the pool or do a 180. All four did just that, a 180 and bolted back up the pathway. Coming down the pathway in back of the horses got to be about a dozen of back packers with their packs. I think some thought about flying, running
back up to the rim but most turned to the cliff and wished they were thinner hopping they would not get run over. The four horses made it back to the top. The two in front got introduced to the LLamas then they walked their horses to the bottom of the pathway. We met the 4 at the top of the rim and they had lots of words for us. Christine was laughing so hard tears were coming down her cheeks, several back packers were also laughing, I thought it was funny but the riders were yelling, screaming until a park ranger came to the rim from the Little Yosemite Valley side. Everything got quiet and he told the riders to introduce their horses to some LLamas when they got back home so this would not happen again. He walked past the LLamas and gave each a scratch and he was gone. Several hikers had plenty of questions. How much weight can they pack, where to get some, what they cost, etc. If we had a couple dozen LLamas that day bet we could havesold
On Mon, 10/7/13, llamaladysg@... <llamaladysg@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: Re: [llama] Re: Looks like a llama....kind of?
Date: Monday, October 7, 2013, 10:17 AM
When I hike on horse trails (where llamas tend to be relegated on federal park lands), about half of the horses start dancing and want to bolt. The best riders will dismount and bring the horse over to see the llama (I always get well off the trail) to help desensitize it.
---In firstname.lastname@example.org, <email@example.com> wrote:
Horse reactions to my llamas have all been unique. One mare gave a glance and then went back to eating. Another mare wanted him right there! She thought he was cute, turned and "presented" with the rider still on her. A big, tough, stallion turned tail and ran. A mule went up a cliff One horse died on the spot. But I think that thing in the video would spook most llamas or horses.
From: Susan Ravan <sdravan@...>
First time my horse saw a llama she got a hand taller and her ears touched in the center. She stood stock
still for about a minute, then bolted when the llama got up. She got about 4-5 strides before I got her stopped. Funny horse.