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Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?

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  • bbarry
    If there is a Queen Stage to this year s series, the Norton/Kittridge/Quickert route up Bohlman is as unrelentingly brutal a migraine of pain as bicycle
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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           If there is a "Queen Stage" to this year's series, the Norton/Kittridge/Quickert route up Bohlman is as unrelentingly brutal a migraine of pain as bicycle hillclimbing can get.
           If it were rated, the mile to the crest of On Orbit would be declared the toughest one mile climb in the US according to John Summerson's book.
           Going back  to 2007, Welch Creek
      is still the most punishing, with sections that will knock a rider flat if they're not ready for it.  But it doesn't have the nonstop pain factor that this Saturday's riders will suffer.
           Maybe a return to Welch Creek on next year's schedule?

      Seeya all Saturday.
      Barry


      On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Daniel Connelly <djconnel@...> wrote:
      Anyone preview the new route?

      Comments?

      I unfortunately have a family event I need to attend in Colorado, so won't be able to be there. It's really too bad, as I love this one. It's the essence of Low-Key.

      There's no losers at the summit of Bohlman. Anyone who makes it up this one has won. Actually, the concept of previewing this climb is perverse to me. I've only got at most one Bohlman in me per year. It takes a good 9-12 months to reacquire the requisite threshold of self-deception.

      Dan

    • Daniel Connelly
      We ll solicit feedback for next year soon. But I think Welch Creek is a great idea. The key fun is picking climbs we haven t done before. One such candidate
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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        We'll solicit feedback for next year soon. But I think Welch Creek is a great idea.

        The key fun is picking climbs we haven't done before. One such candidate is Black Road next to Montevina. It's a really tough climb especially near the end: it has its own unique character. Slightly high on car traffic, not as nice as Montevina in that regard, but better than nearby Bear Creek Road I think. It also offers the very scenic alternate of Gist Road part way up, but that reduces total climbing and so isn't preferred.

        I've got a few other ideas. Major downers are left hand turns with traffic and long drives. Anything easily bike-accessible from BART is in play, however, and that includes Welch Creek.

        I already proposed Hicks-Loma Almaden for this year (we climbed it in 1996: http://www.lowkeyhillclimbs.com/1996/week8.html ) before we went with Montevina. So that's another prominent candidate.

        --- On Thu, 11/5/09, bbarry <jkkerouac@...> wrote:
             Maybe a return to Welch Creek on next year's schedule?
      • Geoff Drake
        Come visit us in mid-county Santa Cruz? Mt. Madonna? Eureka Canyon? Geoff ________________________________ From: Daniel Connelly To:
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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          Come visit us in mid-county Santa Cruz? Mt. Madonna? Eureka Canyon?
          Geoff


          From: Daniel Connelly <djconnel@...>
          To: lkhc@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 9:29:54 AM
          Subject: Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?

           

          We'll solicit feedback for next year soon. But I think Welch Creek is a great idea.

          The key fun is picking climbs we haven't done before. One such candidate is Black Road next to Montevina. It's a really tough climb especially near the end: it has its own unique character. Slightly high on car traffic, not as nice as Montevina in that regard, but better than nearby Bear Creek Road I think. It also offers the very scenic alternate of Gist Road part way up, but that reduces total climbing and so isn't preferred.

          I've got a few other ideas. Major downers are left hand turns with traffic and long drives. Anything easily bike-accessible from BART is in play, however, and that includes Welch Creek.

          I already proposed Hicks-Loma Almaden for this year (we climbed it in 1996: http://www.lowkeyhi llclimbs. com/1996/ week8.html ) before we went with Montevina. So that's another prominent candidate.

          --- On Thu, 11/5/09, bbarry <jkkerouac@gmail. com> wrote:
               Maybe a return to Welch Creek on next year's schedule?


        • Gary Griffin
          Dan, Another good climb Calaveras and Felter roads, the backside of Sierra. It is a challenge in that the slope is constantly changing. The average slope is
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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            Dan,

                        Another good climb Calaveras and Felter roads, the backside of Sierra.  It is a challenge in that the slope is constantly changing.  The average slope is probably about 5%, but there are a bunch of 10% sections thrown in there and some short down hill stretches.  Calaveras has some traffic, but once you get onto Felter there are very few cars.  I think it would be about half an hour ride from the Fremont Bart station.

             

            Gary Griffin

             


            From: lkhc@yahoogroups.com [mailto: lkhc@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Daniel Connelly
            Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:30 AM
            To: lkhc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?

             

             

            We'll solicit feedback for next year soon. But I think Welch Creek is a great idea.

            The key fun is picking climbs we haven't done before. One such candidate is Black Road next to Montevina. It's a really tough climb especially near the end: it has its own unique character. Slightly high on car traffic, not as nice as Montevina in that regard, but better than nearby Bear Creek Road I think. It also offers the very scenic alternate of Gist Road part way up, but that reduces total climbing and so isn't preferred.

            I've got a few other ideas. Major downers are left hand turns with traffic and long drives. Anything easily bike-accessible from BART is in play, however, and that includes Welch Creek.

            I already proposed Hicks-Loma Almaden for this year (we climbed it in 1996: http://www.lowkeyhi llclimbs. com/1996/ week8.html ) before we went with Montevina. So that's another prominent candidate.

            --- On Thu, 11/5/09, bbarry <jkkerouac@gmail. com> wrote:
                 Maybe a return to Welch Creek on next year's schedule?

          • Daniel Connelly
            Good ideas. As well as East Zayante, Mt Charlie, Bonny Doon - Pine Flat (TOC!), Felton Empire. These all get a relatively long haul from San Francisco, I m
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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              Good ideas. As well as East Zayante, Mt Charlie, Bonny Doon - Pine Flat (TOC!), Felton Empire. These all get a relatively long haul from San Francisco, I'm afraid. We already saw a drop-off in participation at Jamison Creek, making me wonder if Alba Road is pushing our outer radius.

              Of these Bonny Doon - Pine Flat would be my favorite: strong TOC connection and a wonderfully challenging climb with plenty of post-ride loop options. But location, location, location.

              West Highway 9 is another one we've not yet visitied. That's certainly within the critical radius.

              On the northern boundary, Bolinas Lagoon pretty much crashed and burned in 1995. So I'd limit northern excursions to the south side of Mt Tam or to Berkeley which is BART-accessible. I haven't figured out a good Mt Tam solution, however. Narrow residential roads, tricky descents, or hiker traffic on Old Railroad Grade sort of put the damper on my ideas there. We already did the best the Berkeley Hills have to offer last year. That was fun, but 2010 is a bit too soon for a repeat.

              Dan


              --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Geoff Drake <geoff_drake@...> wrote:
              Come visit us in mid-county Santa Cruz? Mt. Madonna? Eureka Canyon?
              Geoff
            • Daniel Connelly
              The issue with Felter is if you re going to head down there, Sierra Road is so much more attractive. And with TOC having moved to May, the L Etape du Tour
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                The issue with Felter is if you're going to head down there, Sierra Road is so much more attractive. And with TOC having moved to May, the "L'Etape du Tour" King of the Mountain climb up Sierra Road, if it happens at all, will likely move with it, reducing the conflict there.

                Of course one could do both.

                Felter is a good option, I agree, with the small exception of those descents.

                Dan
                -----------------
                Another good climb Calaveras and Felter roads, the backside of Sierra.  It is a
                challenge in that the slope is constantly changing.  The average slope is
                probably about 5%, but there are a bunch of 10% sections thrown in there and some short down hill stretches.  Calaveras has some traffic, but once you
                get onto Felter there are very few cars.  I think it would be about half
                an hour ride from the Fremont Bart station.

                 

                Gary
                Griffin

                 









                From:
                lkhc@yahoogroups.com [mailto: lkhc@yahoogroups.com ]
                On Behalf Of
                Daniel Connelly

                Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009
                9:30 AM

                To: lkhc@yahoogroups.com

                Subject: Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview
                BNKQOOB?



                 

                 









                We'll solicit feedback for next year soon. But I think
                Welch Creek is a great idea.



                The key fun is picking climbs we haven't done before. One such candidate is
                Black Road next to
                Montevina. It's a really tough climb especially near the end: it has its own
                unique character. Slightly high on car traffic, not as nice as Montevina in
                that regard, but better than nearby Bear
                Creek Road I think. It also offers the very scenic
                alternate of Gist Road
                part way up, but that reduces total climbing and so isn't preferred.



                I've got a few other ideas. Major downers are left hand turns with traffic and
                long drives. Anything easily bike-accessible from BART is in play, however, and
                that includes Welch Creek.



                I already proposed Hicks-Loma Almaden for this year (we climbed it in 1996: http://www.lowkeyhi llclimbs. com/1996/ week8.html
                ) before we went with Montevina. So that's another prominent candidate.



                --- On Thu, 11/5/09, bbarry <jkkerouac@gmail. com>
                wrote:

                     Maybe a return to Welch Creek on next year's schedule?
              • Ron Brunner
                I think we have enough climbs to do the series all-year round! ha ha. Ok. Maybe that wasn t very funny :) ________________________________ From: Daniel
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                  I think we have enough climbs to do the series all-year round! ha ha.  Ok. Maybe that wasn't very funny :)


                  From: Daniel Connelly <djconnel@...>
                  To: lkhc@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 10:02:05 AM
                  Subject: Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?

                   

                  Good ideas. As well as East Zayante, Mt Charlie, Bonny Doon - Pine Flat (TOC!), Felton Empire. These all get a relatively long haul from San Francisco, I'm afraid. We already saw a drop-off in participation at Jamison Creek, making me wonder if Alba Road is pushing our outer radius.

                  Of these Bonny Doon - Pine Flat would be my favorite: strong TOC connection and a wonderfully challenging climb with plenty of post-ride loop options. But location, location, location.

                  West Highway 9 is another one we've not yet visitied. That's certainly within the critical radius.

                  On the northern boundary, Bolinas Lagoon pretty much crashed and burned in 1995. So I'd limit northern excursions to the south side of Mt Tam or to Berkeley which is BART-accessible. I haven't figured out a good Mt Tam solution, however. Narrow residential roads, tricky descents, or hiker traffic on Old Railroad Grade sort of put the damper on my ideas there. We already did the best the Berkeley Hills have to offer last year. That was fun, but 2010 is a bit too soon for a repeat.

                  Dan

                  --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Geoff Drake <geoff_drake@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                  Come visit us in mid-county Santa Cruz? Mt. Madonna? Eureka Canyon?
                  Geoff


                • Han Wen
                  Dan, I ve survived BNKQOOB several times and have consistently found that just prior to the climb I have expectations that a) it will be easier this time and
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                    Dan,

                    I've survived BNKQOOB several times and have consistently found that just prior to the climb I have expectations that a) it will be easier this time and b) I'll get "used to it".  And, as I desperately try to refrain from panicking as I try to summit On Orbit, I inevitably discover a) no, this is not easier this time, b) I'll never get used to it and c) what the heck was I thinking? Am I insane?  I'll never do this again!

                    Just getting to the top of BNKQOOB is such a thrill, forget about how long it takes.  At least for me.

                    So, for veterans of the BOO (Bohlman-to-On Orbit) section, you'll be delighted to know that BNKQOO is much more challenging.  While with BOO you're treated with only about 2-3 really difficult switchbacks near the end, with BNKQOO, you're entertained with one painful switchback after another (at least 5-6 I think), culminating in a real nasty one as Quickert crosses Wildcat Ridge Road.  I wouldn't worry about accidentally making a left on Wildcat Ridge Road, there's a gate there; last time I went up it was closed.

                    The road along BNKQOO is much nicer than BOO, in my opinion.  The road looks newly paved, fairly clean with lovely full canopy tree coverage in some sections.

                    Norton starts off fairly innocently with a moderately difficult grade, then you get a false plateau and a slight downhill where you can pick up some speed... until wham, your first 15% grade hill hits you.  Buckle it, it's going to be long ride...  After several switchbacks, you'll get to Kittridge.  Don't worry about the map that indicates that Norton continues to the right.  Yeah, it does, but it's a dirt/gravel road.  As far as it looks, Norton seamlessly transitions into Kittridge.  BeDan,

                    I've survived BNKQOOB several times and have consistently found that just prior to the climb I have expectations that a) it will be easier this time and b) I'll get "used to it".  And, as I desperately try to refrain from panicking as I try to summit On Orbit, I inevitably discover a) no, this is not easier this time, b) I'll never get used to it and c) what the heck was I thinking? Am I insane?  I'll never do this again!

                    Just getting to the top of BNKQOOB is such a thrill, forget about how long it takes.  At least for me.

                    So, for veterans of the BOO (Bohlman-to-On Orbit) section, you'll be delighted to know that BNKQOO is much more challenging.  While with BOO you're treated with only about 2-3 really difficult switchbacks near the end, with BNKQOO, you're entertained with one painful switchback after another (at least 5-6 I think), culminating in a real nasty one as Quickert crosses Wildcat Ridge Road.  I wouldn't worry about accidentally making a left on Wildcat Ridge Road, there's a gate there; last time I went up it was closed.

                    The road along BNKQOO is much nicer than BOO, in my opinion.  The road looks newly paved, fairly clean with lovely full canopy tree coverage in some sections.

                    Norton starts off fairly innocently with a moderately difficult grade, then you get a false plateau and a slight downhill where you can pick up some speed... until wham, your first 15% grade hill hits you.  Buckle it, it's going to be long ride...  After several switchbacks, you'll get to Kittridge.  Don't worry about the map that indicates that Norton continues to the right.  Yeah, it does, but it's a dirt/gravel road.  As far as it looks, Norton seamlessly transitions into Kittridge.  Be careful on the first switchback, it's really nasty.  Then again, it's just plain nasty repeatedly with brief moments of relative rest between each switchback, culminating in that double-hump climb as you cross Wildcat Ridge Road.  I don't even remember when Kittridge transitions to Quickert.  I just think the name is just plain cruel.  After you get to the top of the double-hump, there's a full-canopied section that has a lot of branch debris on the road, so be careful there.  However, the grade is relatively moderate (compared to what you just survived), so I don't think there's much risk of wheel slippage.  After all that torture, you're finally thrown onto On Orbit like waste jettisoned from a plane, and you feel that way. 

                    After a moment to catch your breath, wham, you're back to the grind on On Orbit until you get to another false plateau, another climb, another false plateau... and then it starts.  At first it starts difficultly, but manageable and you think for a moment, "okay, this is hard, but not impossible"... until your cross "the pothole" (be careful, it's about 6" in diameter).  That's when the full glory of On Orbit's 18% (only? feels greater) hits you.  You hang on for dear life as you pass those mailboxes, little further until you round that corner... summit? summit?... but alas, you see another long section with another turn in the distance...  You dig deep, impossibly deep and somehow you manage to get to the turn... and the turn turns out to be a long, merrily casually turning turn with no end in sight and you beg that somewhere there's a summit at the end of this....  At this point, you know you're going to crack, this just isn't worth it.  Everything is about to collapse.... and then finally, you see it... the summit.  You claw your way to this summit in disbelief and pummel down On Orbit.

                    An this point, you think "yes, it's finally over!"... until you rejoin with Bohlman and the ~10% grade hits you right away, and a sobering thought fills you with dread "I'm only about halfway to the top"..

                    Sorry, I think I got a little carried away there.  Well, the rest is fairly standard, albeit still very difficult.  There are a couple of sections betwen OO and the end of Bohlman where there's leftover dirt covering the road from the last rains.  Be careful around those turns...

                    Hope that gives folks a little taste of what's to come this Saturday!

                    -Han-


                    From: Daniel Connelly <djconnel@...>
                    To: Low-Key Hillclimbs <lkhc@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 8:07:02 PM
                    Subject: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?

                     

                    Anyone preview the new route?

                    Comments?

                    I unfortunately have a family event I need to attend in Colorado, so won't be able to be there. It's really too bad, as I love this one. It's the essence of Low-Key.

                    There's no losers at the summit of Bohlman. Anyone who makes it up this one has won. Actually, the concept of previewing this climb is perverse to me. I've only got at most one Bohlman in me per year. It takes a good 9-12 months to reacquire the requisite threshold of self-deception.

                    Dan

                  • Brad Ford
                    ... Or you could ride the Santa Cruz Mountain Challenge, and do every one of those climbs in one day: http://www.santacruzcycling.org/scmc/index.shtml Great
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                      On Nov 5, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Daniel Connelly wrote:

                      > Good ideas. As well as East Zayante, Mt Charlie, Bonny Doon - Pine
                      > Flat (TOC!), Felton Empire. These all get a relatively long haul
                      > from San Francisco, I'm afraid. We already saw a drop-off in
                      > participation at Jamison Creek, making me wonder if Alba Road is
                      > pushing our outer radius.
                      >
                      > Of these Bonny Doon - Pine Flat would be my favorite: strong TOC
                      > connection and a wonderfully challenging climb with plenty of post-
                      > ride loop options. But location, location, location.

                      Or you could ride the Santa Cruz Mountain Challenge, and do every one
                      of those climbs in one day:

                      http://www.santacruzcycling.org/scmc/index.shtml

                      Great event. I've done it twice. Last time they did a time trial up
                      Jamison Creek (...after we already had 50 or so miles of climbing in
                      the legs. Ouch).
                      -B.


                      >
                      > West Highway 9 is another one we've not yet visitied. That's
                      > certainly within the critical radius.
                      >
                      > On the northern boundary, Bolinas Lagoon pretty much crashed and
                      > burned in 1995. So I'd limit northern excursions to the south side
                      > of Mt Tam or to Berkeley which is BART-accessible. I haven't
                      > figured out a good Mt Tam solution, however. Narrow residential
                      > roads, tricky descents, or hiker traffic on Old Railroad Grade sort
                      > of put the damper on my ideas there. We already did the best the
                      > Berkeley Hills have to offer last year. That was fun, but 2010 is a
                      > bit too soon for a repeat.
                      >
                      > Dan
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Geoff Drake <geoff_drake@...> wrote:
                      > Come visit us in mid-county Santa Cruz? Mt. Madonna? Eureka Canyon?
                      > Geoff
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Daniel Connelly
                      Man, that s great stuff. I should let you take over writing the climb descriptions for the web pages :). Great info! BTW, my reference for the profile up to
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                        Man, that's great stuff. I should let you take over writing the climb descriptions for the web pages :).

                        Great info!

                        BTW, my reference for the profile up to On Orbit was here:
                        http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/3685098
                        After that I used Lucas.

                        It's easy to see the Google map is wrong.

                        Dan

                        --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Han Wen <hansker@...> wrote:

                        I've survived BNKQOOB several times and have consistently found that just prior to the climb I have expectations that a) it will be easier this time and b) I'll get "used to it".  And, as I desperately try to refrain from panicking as I try to summit On Orbit, I inevitably discover a) no, this is not easier this time, b) I'll never get used to it and c) what the heck was I thinking? Am I insane?  I'll never do this again!

                        Just getting to the top of BNKQOOB is such a thrill, forget about how long it takes.  At least for me.

                        So, for veterans of the BOO (Bohlman-to-On Orbit) section, you'll be delighted to know that BNKQOO is much more challenging.  While with BOO you're treated with only about 2-3 really difficult switchbacks near the end, with BNKQOO, you're entertained with one painful switchback after another (at least 5-6
                        I think), culminating in a real nasty one as Quickert crosses Wildcat Ridge Road.  I wouldn't worry about accidentally making a left on Wildcat Ridge Road, there's a gate there; last time I went up it was closed.

                        The road along BNKQOO is much nicer than BOO, in my opinion.  The road looks newly paved, fairly clean with lovely full canopy tree coverage in some sections.

                        Norton starts off fairly innocently with a moderately difficult grade, then you get a false plateau and a slight downhill where you can pick up some speed... until wham, your first 15% grade hill hits you.  Buckle it, it's going to be long ride...  After several switchbacks, you'll get to Kittridge.  Don't worry about the map that indicates that Norton continues to the right.  Yeah, it does, but it's a dirt/gravel road.  As far as it looks, Norton seamlessly transitions into Kittridge.  Be careful on the first switchback, it's really nasty.  Then again, it's just plain nasty repeatedly with brief moments of relative rest between each switchback,
                        culminating in that double-hump climb as you cross Wildcat Ridge Road.  I don't even remember when Kittridge transitions to Quickert.  I just think the name is just plain cruel.  After you get to the top of the double-hump, there's a full-canopied section that has a lot of branch debris on the road, so be careful there.  However, the grade is relatively moderate (compared to what you just survived), so I don't think there's much risk of wheel slippage.  After all that torture, you're finally thrown onto On Orbit like waste jettisoned from a plane, and you feel that way. 

                        After a moment to catch your breath, wham, you're back to the grind on On Orbit until you get to another false plateau, another climb, another false plateau... and then it starts.  At first it starts difficultly, but manageable and you think for a moment, "okay, this is hard, but not impossible"... until your cross "the pothole" (be careful,
                        it's about 6" in diameter).  That's when the full glory of On Orbit's 18% (only? feels greater) hits you.  You hang on for dear life as you pass those mailboxes, little further until you round that corner... summit? summit?... but alas, you see another long section with another turn in the distance...  You dig deep, impossibly deep and somehow you manage to get to the turn... and the turn turns out to be a long, merrily casually turning turn with no end in sight and you beg that somewhere there's a summit at the end of this....  At this point, you know you're going to crack, this just isn't worth it.  Everything is about to collapse.... and then finally, you see it... the summit.  You claw your way to this summit in disbelief and pummel down On Orbit.

                        An this point, you think "yes, it's finally over!"... until you rejoin with Bohlman and the ~10% grade hits you right away, and a sobering thought fills you with dread
                        "I'm only about halfway to the top"..

                        Sorry, I think I got a little carried away there.  Well, the rest is fairly standard, albeit still very difficult.  There are a couple of sections betwen OO and the end of Bohlman where there's leftover dirt covering the road from the last rains.  Be careful around those turns...

                        Hope that gives folks a little taste of what's to come this Saturday!

                        -Han-

                        From: Daniel Connelly <djconnel@...>
                        To: Low-Key Hillclimbs <lkhc@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 8:07:02 PM
                        Subject: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?
                      • John Walker
                        I ve ridden it a bunch of times, and informally dubbed it the Bohlman Bypass. Because the road surface is better, I prefer descending it to Bohlman. My most
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 5, 2009
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                          I've ridden it a bunch of times, and informally dubbed it the
                          Bohlman Bypass.  Because the road surface is better, I
                          prefer descending it to Bohlman.  My most recent trip was
                          going down it this past Monday.  I haven't gone up it in a
                          while, so my memories of the pain levels have probably
                          dulled a bit.

                          Han Wen had a pretty good description.  Norton seems the easiest
                          of the three roads.  Going up, it ends at a sharp right hairpin.
                          If you continued straight at the hairpin (and made it through the
                          fence, you would be on Villa Montalvo property).  Instead,
                          you immediately start going UP Kitridge. Kitridge continues up
                          until a sharp left hairpin deposits you on Quickert.  If you continued
                          straight on Kitridge instead of turning onto Quickert, you would
                          be on a gravel/dirt road that supposedly connects through to
                          Bohlman.  But it is not one of the more ridable dirt roads.  The
                          one time I tried it, I turned around very quickly.  But, the dirt is
                          still tempting after seeing the initial grade on Quickert.  After
                          the next right hairpin on Quickert, nothing really sticks out
                          in my mind very much.  I do know that it hits On Orbit close 
                          enough to Bohlman that you aren't spared much of its climbing.

                          Numbers I got from Monday (climbing has to
                          be taken as approximate, since it was based
                          upon GPS):
                          Norton: 240 ft in 0.53 miles (8.6% average)
                          Kitridge: 280 ft in 0.40 miles (13.4%)
                          Quickert: 420 ft in 0.59 miles (13.6%)

                          Note that this route is not much shorter than Bohlman itself, so
                          its average grade is no steeper.

                          -- John

                          On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Daniel Connelly <djconnel@...> wrote:
                          Anyone preview the new route?

                          Comments?

                          I unfortunately have a family event I need to attend in Colorado, so won't be able to be there.  It's really too bad, as I love this one.  It's the essence of Low-Key.

                          There's no losers at the summit of Bohlman.  Anyone who makes it up this one has won.  Actually, the concept of previewing this climb is perverse to me.  I've only got at most one Bohlman in me per year.  It takes a good 9-12 months to reacquire the requisite threshold of self-deception.

                          Dan






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                        • Han Wen
                          John, Thanks for your correction. I mixed up the turn from Norton-to-Kittridge for the turn from Kittridge-to-Quickert (where the dirt road leads down).
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 6, 2009
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                            John,

                            Thanks for your correction.  I mixed up the turn from Norton-to-Kittridge for the turn from Kittridge-to-Quickert (where the dirt road leads down).  Looks like I didn't spend enough time prying my white-knuckled eyes from road to take a good look at remembering the road signs. :)  Yes, I remember now that nasty hairpin turn from Norton-to-Kittridge, or for mere mortals like me "hug-the-outer-rim" while for titans as perhaps yourself  "spiderman-the-wall".  Hats off to the Contadors out there that can dance on their pedals to the top of this climb.  Us relative bystanders will watch... err well, little hard to do since you'll be many switchbacks ahead of us... let's say.. "imagine" in awe and inspiration...

                            -Han-


                            From: John Walker <john.f.walker@...>
                            To: lkhc@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 11:08:55 PM
                            Subject: Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?

                             

                            I've ridden it a bunch of times, and informally dubbed it the

                            Bohlman Bypass.  Because the road surface is better, I
                            prefer descending it to Bohlman.  My most recent trip was
                            going down it this past Monday.  I haven't gone up it in a
                            while, so my memories of the pain levels have probably
                            dulled a bit.

                            Han Wen had a pretty good description.  Norton seems the easiest
                            of the three roads.  Going up, it ends at a sharp right hairpin.
                            If you continued straight at the hairpin (and made it through the
                            fence, you would be on Villa Montalvo property).  Instead,
                            you immediately start going UP Kitridge. Kitridge continues up
                            until a sharp left hairpin deposits you on Quickert.  If you continued
                            straight on Kitridge instead of turning onto Quickert, you would
                            be on a gravel/dirt road that supposedly connects through to
                            Bohlman.  But it is not one of the more ridable dirt roads.  The
                            one time I tried it, I turned around very quickly.  But, the dirt is
                            still tempting after seeing the initial grade on Quickert.  After
                            the next right hairpin on Quickert, nothing really sticks out
                            in my mind very much.  I do know that it hits On Orbit close 
                            enough to Bohlman that you aren't spared much of its climbing.

                            Numbers I got from Monday (climbing has to
                            be taken as approximate, since it was based
                            upon GPS):
                            Norton: 240 ft in 0.53 miles (8.6% average)
                            Kitridge: 280 ft in 0.40 miles (13.4%)
                            Quickert: 420 ft in 0.59 miles (13.6%)

                            Note that this route is not much shorter than Bohlman itself, so
                            its average grade is no steeper.

                            -- John

                            On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Daniel Connelly <djconnel@yahoo. com> wrote:
                            Anyone preview the new route?

                            Comments?

                            I unfortunately have a family event I need to attend in Colorado, so won't be able to be there.  It's really too bad, as I love this one.  It's the essence of Low-Key.

                            There's no losers at the summit of Bohlman.  Anyone who makes it up this one has won.  Actually, the concept of previewing this climb is perverse to me.  I've only got at most one Bohlman in me per year.  It takes a good 9-12 months to reacquire the requisite threshold of self-deception.

                            Dan






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                          • Ben Weir
                            I went out and rode it last night. It was my first time on the Norton bypass and even in the dark there s really no way to get lost despite all the various
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 6, 2009
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                              I went out and rode it last night. It was my first time on the Norton
                              bypass and even in the dark there's really no way to get lost despite
                              all the various street names. It's essentially one continuous street
                              but I guess it's such an epic climb that they had to give each
                              switchback its own name.

                              Despite how misery-inducing this will surely be on Saturday it was quite
                              nice to climb it at a relaxed pace and on a cool, misty night. The
                              Norton route offers stunning views of the valley, especially on a
                              non-hazy night like yesterday. The lights below were so sprawling as to
                              seem remotely distant and yet the view was so clear I could see
                              individual green and red traffic lights along some of the major streets.

                              One person said that Bohlman is a once-a-year kind of road and that may
                              be true for a hard effort. But I think it would be well worth it to
                              come out a second time and climb it slowly for the scenery :)

                              One last note is that I was surprised how varied the pitch was on
                              Norton/Kittridge/Quickert given how constant it looks in the profile
                              image on the web site. There are definitely some flatter places to
                              recover albeit not for very long.

                              Ben

                              Han Wen wrote:
                              >
                              > John,
                              >
                              > Thanks for your correction. I mixed up the turn from
                              > Norton-to-Kittridge for the turn from Kittridge-to-Quickert (where the
                              > dirt road leads down). Looks like I didn't spend enough time prying
                              > my white-knuckled eyes from road to take a good look at remembering
                              > the road signs. :) Yes, I remember now that nasty hairpin turn from
                              > Norton-to-Kittridge, or for mere mortals like me "hug-the-outer-rim"
                              > while for titans as perhaps yourself "spiderman-the-wall". Hats off
                              > to the Contadors out there that can dance on their pedals to the top
                              > of this climb. Us relative bystanders will watch... err well, little
                              > hard to do since you'll be many switchbacks ahead of us... let's say..
                              > "imagine" in awe and inspiration...
                              >
                              > -Han-
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > *From:* John Walker <john.f.walker@...>
                              > *To:* lkhc@yahoogroups.com
                              > *Sent:* Thu, November 5, 2009 11:08:55 PM
                              > *Subject:* Re: [lkhc] Anyone preview BNKQOOB?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I've ridden it a bunch of times, and informally dubbed it the
                              >
                              > Bohlman Bypass. Because the road surface is better, I
                              > prefer descending it to Bohlman. My most recent trip was
                              > going down it this past Monday. I haven't gone up it in a
                              > while, so my memories of the pain levels have probably
                              > dulled a bit.
                              >
                              > Han Wen had a pretty good description. Norton seems the easiest
                              > of the three roads. Going up, it ends at a sharp right hairpin.
                              > If you continued straight at the hairpin (and made it through the
                              > fence, you would be on Villa Montalvo property). Instead,
                              > you immediately start going UP Kitridge. Kitridge continues up
                              > until a sharp left hairpin deposits you on Quickert. If you continued
                              > straight on Kitridge instead of turning onto Quickert, you would
                              > be on a gravel/dirt road that supposedly connects through to
                              > Bohlman. But it is not one of the more ridable dirt roads. The
                              > one time I tried it, I turned around very quickly. But, the dirt is
                              > still tempting after seeing the initial grade on Quickert. After
                              > the next right hairpin on Quickert, nothing really sticks out
                              > in my mind very much. I do know that it hits On Orbit close
                              > enough to Bohlman that you aren't spared much of its climbing.
                              >
                              > Numbers I got from Monday (climbing has to
                              > be taken as approximate, since it was based
                              > upon GPS):
                              > Norton: 240 ft in 0.53 miles (8.6% average)
                              > Kitridge: 280 ft in 0.40 miles (13.4%)
                              > Quickert: 420 ft in 0.59 miles (13.6%)
                              >
                              > Note that this route is not much shorter than Bohlman itself, so
                              > its average grade is no steeper.
                              >
                              > -- John
                              >
                              > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Daniel Connelly <djconnel@yahoo. com
                              > <mailto:djconnel@...>> wrote:
                              >
                              > Anyone preview the new route?
                              >
                              > Comments?
                              >
                              > I unfortunately have a family event I need to attend in Colorado,
                              > so won't be able to be there. It's really too bad, as I love this
                              > one. It's the essence of Low-Key.
                              >
                              > There's no losers at the summit of Bohlman. Anyone who makes it
                              > up this one has won. Actually, the concept of previewing this
                              > climb is perverse to me. I've only got at most one Bohlman in me
                              > per year. It takes a good 9-12 months to reacquire the requisite
                              > threshold of self-deception.
                              >
                              > Dan
                              >

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                            • debbagemark
                              I rode the route on a whim at lunch-time today, knowing that I won t be riding it tomorrow. The bypass route is awesome. Quickert is harder than it seems,
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 6, 2009
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                                I rode the route on a whim at lunch-time today, knowing that I won't be riding it tomorrow. The bypass route is awesome. Quickert is harder than it seems, while On Orbit is still the biggest obstacle. Bohlman itself is mostly neutered by this route selection.

                                It was damp on Quickert in some of the steep places this lunch-time and one had to take a little care to avoid losing rear wheel traction. It will be more damp now since it started lightly drizzling as I left Saratoga. I was running 23mm tires at 110psi. If I had planned ahead and brought my climbing wheels I would have gone road tubeless at 90psi. Gear ratio selection is obviously critical since most of the time you are effectively riding a single speed bike! I had 34/25 and wished I had the 27 cassette on my climbing wheels.

                                The merge from On Orbit onto Bohlman is dangerous as you drop down a steep slope, bottom out at the intersection and immediately start climbing a steep looking pitch on Bohlman. It is also a little loose in places. The temptation is to carry all your speed through the intersection. But you do not have the right of way, the corner is poorly sighted with respect to ascending traffic, so please exercise extreme caution here!

                                Finally, if the hill was not enough there was a large, noisy brown dog with powerful looking jaws on the loose in the road guarding the final 500-600 yards (a bit before McGill). He had a mean-sounding bark, gave me a short chase but didn't come any closer than a couple of yards.

                                Oh, and I knocked about 8 mins off my PR which more than anything indicates how infrequently I ride this hill.
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