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RE: [liturgy-l] Children-friendly . . .

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  • Avril Baigent
    ... But when the tune and the text go together, then the words make sense in the way they match the tune, and so I find it much easier to remember than psalms
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 12, 2001
      From: Pastor Robert White:

      > When pressed to explain (by a Lutheran who had composed some
      > of our newer tune based settings), Brand remarked that in chant
      > the text takes primacy and the notes are bent to fit text, hence the
      > chant patterns work to aid in implanting text in memory.

      But when the tune and the text go together, then the words make sense in the
      way they match the tune, and so I find it much easier to remember than
      psalms set to chant. In fact, although I have a good memory for music, it
      took me a whole summer to learn a chanted mass setting, singing it every
      week. Also, in some places where they pride themselves on singing chant, it
      seems to be more the case that the chant takes primacy, and so long as the
      flow is maintained, the words are secondary (particularly as you can sing
      *anything* to chant melodies).
      There is something really beautiful about hearing chant sung well, and it's
      fun to sing in a parish setting too. But it's only part of our heritage,
      and I think there's a lot to be said for musical settings that communicate
      the sense of the words on a different level.
      Avril

      Avril Baigent
      Youth Ministry Project Officer
      The Northampton Diocese Youth Project
      48 Church St
      Chesham
      Bucks
      HP5 1HY
    • DJP4LAW@aol.com
      Robin, that s great. On a related note, when I began to study liturgy at St. John s in Collegeville, my teacher and mentor, Godfrey Diekmann, asked me to
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 12, 2001
        Robin, that's great.

        On a related note, when I began to study liturgy at St. John's in Collegeville, my teacher and mentor, Godfrey Diekmann, asked me to attend mass when he presided at the seminary that is situated on the St. John's campus.

        That day, he insisted that he and the congregation (all seminarians, except for him and me, as I recall) sing the mass in Latin. The responses from the boys in the sem were pretty restrained. But when we reached the Agnus Dei, Father Godfrey broke into the singing to rebuke the lads: "You ought to be ashamed that the only one among you who knows these words in Latin is that Protestant. Now here's how it goes -- " and then he taught them the Latin words.

        Now, I had never studied Latin and I knew blame little about any Latin in the mass. But I had sung in choirs since I was very young. In my high school and college, we had sung all kinds of litugicaly related pieces, so that, while I didn't really know it at the time, I'd had the "stuff" implanted in musical memory and was able (so long as I didn't think about it too hard) bring it to bear. (The fact that it earned me the recognition of a man I had long revered didn't hurt, either.)

        Peace-filled blessings.

        Dwight Penas
        Minneapolis
      • Patrick Murphy
        If those seminarians did not know the main choral words of the Latin Mass, that was not simply a liturgical lack. It meant a cultural deficit - and they must
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 19, 2001
          If those seminarians did not know the main choral words of the Latin Mass,
          that was not simply a liturgical lack. It meant a cultural deficit - and
          they must know little about Bach, Mozart, Hayden and Bethoven. I'd like to
          argue that you can't be a good priest unless you have the rudiments of
          culture, at least Western culture if you are Western, and other cultures if
          you come from them. And you do best if you have some sense of several
          cultures.

          Patrick Murphy


          >From: DJP4LAW@...
          >Reply-To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Children-friendly . . .
          >Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:45:21 EST
          >
          >Robin, that's great.
          >
          >On a related note, when I began to study liturgy at St. John's in
          >Collegeville, my teacher and mentor, Godfrey Diekmann, asked me to attend
          >mass when he presided at the seminary that is situated on the St. John's
          >campus.
          >
          >That day, he insisted that he and the congregation (all seminarians, except
          >for him and me, as I recall) sing the mass in Latin. The responses from the
          >boys in the sem were pretty restrained. But when we reached the Agnus Dei,
          >Father Godfrey broke into the singing to rebuke the lads: "You ought to be
          >ashamed that the only one among you who knows these words in Latin is that
          >Protestant. Now here's how it goes -- " and then he taught them the Latin
          >words.
          >
          >Now, I had never studied Latin and I knew blame little about any Latin in
          >the mass. But I had sung in choirs since I was very young. In my high
          >school and college, we had sung all kinds of litugicaly related pieces, so
          >that, while I didn't really know it at the time, I'd had the "stuff"
          >implanted in musical memory and was able (so long as I didn't think about
          >it too hard) bring it to bear. (The fact that it earned me the recognition
          >of a man I had long revered didn't hurt, either.)
          >
          >Peace-filled blessings.
          >
          >Dwight Penas
          >Minneapolis
          >
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          Patrick Murphy


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