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Re: [liturgy-l] A question about Hebrew....

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  • James O'Regan
    ... Mandlekern has miriam (mem-resh-yod-mem) at Exodus 15:20 only. Brown Driver Briggs has miriam (same spelling) at Ex;. 15:20, 21; Nu. 12:1:4.5:10:10:15:15;
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 4, 2001
      Theodore R. Lorah, Jr. wrote:

      > Yes, Mary is equivalent to Miriam, and jastro, BDB, etc. are the standard
      > Hebrew lexicons. I looked up Miriam, which is the Hebrew original of the
      > "greekicized" Mary.

      Mandlekern has miriam (mem-resh-yod-mem) at Exodus 15:20 only. Brown
      Driver Briggs has miriam (same spelling) at Ex;. 15:20, 21; Nu.
      12:1:4.5:10:10:15:15; 20:1, 26:59; Dt. 24:9; Micah 6:4; I Ch. 4:1
      7, 5:29.

      Zondervan has Maria (mariam: mu-aleph-rho-itoa=-aleph-mu) for
      Christian scripture in many places.

      Hatch Redpath has no listing for maria or mariam for LXX, nor
      anything for a transliteration of m(a)(i)riam using aleph, iota or
      upsilon, although is has a mhrion for ksl. (boy I hate
      transliterations.).

      Now I kind of forget how all this started. But it seems to me that
      the claim for continuity between Hebrew and Christian scripture for
      the name "Mary" is extra-textual or at least extra-cannonical, 'r
      something...


      James O'Regan
      http://www.jamesoregan.com
      tel 613-824-4706
    • James O'Regan
      ... Alcalay does have miriam (mem-resh-yod-mem) as a translation for Mary in modern Hebrew, which is only 150 years or so old. James O Regan
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 4, 2001
        Further to Theodore R. Lorah, Jr. who wrote:

        > Yes, Mary is equivalent to Miriam, and jastro, BDB, etc. are the standard
        > Hebrew lexicons. I looked up Miriam, which is the Hebrew original of the
        > "greekicized" Mary.

        Alcalay does have miriam (mem-resh-yod-mem) as a translation for
        "Mary" in modern Hebrew, which is only 150 years or so old.


        James O'Regan
        http://www.jamesoregan.com
        tel 613-824-4706
      • M. Thannisch
        Unfortunately I am not yet a Hebrew or Greek scholar, but I do know that in Arabic Miriam is used for both Maria and Miriam. ... Shalom in Yeshua ha Moshiach
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 5, 2001
          Unfortunately I am not yet a Hebrew or Greek scholar, but I do know that in
          Arabic Miriam is used for both Maria and Miriam.


          > Now I kind of forget how all this started. But it seems to me that
          > the claim for continuity between Hebrew and Christian scripture for
          > the name "Mary" is extra-textual or at least extra-cannonical, 'r
          > something...
          >
          Shalom in Yeshua ha Moshiach

          Michael Joe Thannisch
          mjthan@...
        • asteresplanetai
          Blessed be God. ... Such would be the understanding of the Syriac and Arabic-speaking Eastern churches. ... It s strange that Hatch-Redpath doesn t list this
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 5, 2001
            Blessed be God.

            > From: "James O'Regan" <oregan@...>
            > Subject: Re: A question about Hebrew....
            >
            > Theodore R. Lorah, Jr. wrote:
            >
            > > Yes, Mary is equivalent to Miriam, and jastro, BDB, etc. are the standard
            > > Hebrew lexicons. I looked up Miriam, which is the Hebrew original of the
            > > "greekicized" Mary.

            Such would be the understanding of the Syriac and Arabic-speaking
            Eastern churches.

            > Mandlekern has miriam (mem-resh-yod-mem) at Exodus 15:20 only. Brown
            > Driver Briggs has miriam (same spelling) at Ex;. 15:20, 21; Nu.
            > 12:1:4.5:10:10:15:15; 20:1, 26:59; Dt. 24:9; Micah 6:4; I Ch. 4:1
            > 7, 5:29.

            > Hatch Redpath has no listing for maria or mariam for LXX, nor
            > anything for a transliteration of m(a)(i)riam using aleph, iota or
            > upsilon, although is has a mhrion for ksl. (boy I hate
            > transliterations.).

            It's strange that Hatch-Redpath doesn't list this name (you'd think
            people might want to look up Moses' sister from time to time!), but
            looking in the actual LXX text, I see "Mariam" in all the places
            listed. Now, in the gospels we have both form, "Maria" and "Mariam",
            for the same person.

            Am I mising something? Could you kindly explain again why you think
            the following?---

            > the claim for continuity between Hebrew and Christian scripture for
            > the name "Mary" is extra-textual or at least extra-cannonical, 'r
            > something...

            Regards,

            John Burnett
          • James O'Regan
            ... Yeah, ain t it? Next time I opine, I ll forego exclusive reliance on concordances. I ll presume you have it correctly on the identity of person for both
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 5, 2001
              asteresplanetai wondered:

              > It's strange that Hatch-Redpath doesn't list this name (you'd think
              > people might want to look up Moses' sister from time to time!), but
              > looking in the actual LXX text, I see "Mariam" in all the places
              > listed. Now, in the gospels we have both form, "Maria" and "Mariam",
              > for the same person.

              Yeah, ain't it? Next time I opine, I'll forego exclusive reliance on
              concordances. I'll presume you have it correctly on the identity of
              person for both names.

              > Am I mising something? Could you kindly explain again why you think
              > the following?---

              Yes, well, now that I see, as you did, the names in LXX, hardly holds
              water, quid?





              James O'Regan
              http://www.jamesoregan.com
              tel 613-824-4706
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