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Holy Week Help Requested

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  • Nathan Nettleton
    I ve been working on what was to be a minor revision of our Holy Week services, and I m now wondering whether to do a more radical rearrangement. I d welcome
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
      I've been working on what was to be a minor revision of our Holy Week
      services, and I'm now wondering whether to do a more radical
      rearrangement. I'd welcome some feedback on my thinking.

      In the past on Palm Sunday we have just celebrated our normal Lenten
      liturgy with the the Palm readings and no passion narrative. Then on the
      Thursday our service has been gathering, Word, foot washing and a
      Tenebrae reading of the passion narrative, with no communion.

      Since we worship in the evening on Sundays, it would be possible to do
      the whole Passion Narrative on the Sunday in a tenebrae style. We could
      use the Palm gospel reading earlier in the liturgy and then read the
      Passion narrative, tenebrae style, in place of the liturgy of the Table.
      We would finish with a time of silence in the darkness.

      If the Tenebrae shifted to the Sunday, displacing communion, we could
      then observe both foot washing and communion on the Thursday, and no
      Tenebrae. Although Tenebrae has become somewhat associated with the
      Thursday, its origins were, I believe, in the first three days of Holy
      Week, so I don't feel there is any great violence in shifting it from
      the Thursday.

      While the withholding of communion for the last Sunday in Lent seems
      okay to me, I'm not sure how to end the service. On Thursday, it makes
      sense to just leave in silence with no commissioning or blessing, but it
      doesn't make as much sense on the Sunday.

      Any reactions, suggestions or thoughts on the subject would be most welcome.

      Peace and hope,

      Nathan

      _____________________________________
      Nathan Nettleton
      Pastor, South Yarra Community Baptist Church
      Melbourne, Australia
      mailto:nathan@...
      _____________________________________
    • Steve Benner
      ... Tenebrae is Matins and Lauds of Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday--observed in the night (or the evening before) in monastic worship before
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
        At 10:06 AM 4/3/01 +1000, you wrote:
        >I've been working on what was to be a minor revision of our Holy Week
        >services, and I'm now wondering whether to do a more radical
        >rearrangement. I'd welcome some feedback on my thinking.
        >
        >In the past on Palm Sunday we have just celebrated our normal Lenten
        >liturgy with the the Palm readings and no passion narrative. Then on the
        >Thursday our service has been gathering, Word, foot washing and a
        >Tenebrae reading of the passion narrative, with no communion.
        >
        >Since we worship in the evening on Sundays, it would be possible to do
        >the whole Passion Narrative on the Sunday in a tenebrae style. We could
        >use the Palm gospel reading earlier in the liturgy and then read the
        >Passion narrative, tenebrae style, in place of the liturgy of the Table.
        >We would finish with a time of silence in the darkness.
        >
        >If the Tenebrae shifted to the Sunday, displacing communion, we could
        >then observe both foot washing and communion on the Thursday, and no
        >Tenebrae. Although Tenebrae has become somewhat associated with the
        >Thursday, its origins were, I believe, in the first three days of Holy
        >Week, so I don't feel there is any great violence in shifting it from
        >the Thursday.
        >
        >While the withholding of communion for the last Sunday in Lent seems
        >okay to me, I'm not sure how to end the service. On Thursday, it makes
        >sense to just leave in silence with no commissioning or blessing, but it
        >doesn't make as much sense on the Sunday.

        Tenebrae is Matins and Lauds of Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy
        Saturday--observed in the night (or the evening before) in monastic worship
        before Vatican II.

        (Question: was Massey Shepherd's Tenebrae service published back in the
        50's the modern beginning of this phenomenon outside of monasticism?)

        Tenebrae traditionally ends in silence with people leaving, just as Jesus
        was abandoned by those who surrounded him before his crucifixion. I see no
        reason not to do the same on Palm Sunday, if you choose to do the Passion
        as Tenebrae service that night. Do you observe making the loud crash/noise
        at the end and the bringing back of the candle as done in the traditional
        format of Tenebrae Matins and Lauds? That makes a good ending to the
        service, IMO, as well.



        Steve Benner
        steve@...
        Oremus -- Daily Prayer, Liturgical Resources, Online Hymnal since 1993
        http://www.oremus.org
      • fcsenn@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/2/2001 8:10:26 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Anticipated on the night before precisely because Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
          In a message dated 4/2/2001 8:10:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
          steve@... writes:


          > Tenebrae is Matins and Lauds of Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy
          > Saturday--observed in the night (or the evening before) in monastic worship
          > before Vatican II.
          >
          >

          Anticipated on the night before precisely because Maundy Thursday, Good
          Friday, and Holy Saturday were such busy days. Busy not just because of the
          liturgies of these days, but also because of the confessions required for the
          Easter communion in which everyone participated.

          From a purist perspective, Tenebrae is a corrupt use of the divine office.
          Morning prayer takes place in the morning, not the night before. Its on a
          par with the medieval custom of doing the Easter Vigil on Saturday morning.
          Not everything old is necessarily a good practice.

          But, of course, I understand that people want to play with lights and sound.
          The problem with with striving for affect is that it focuses on what happens
          to the worshiper rather than to the One who is worshiped. The traditional
          Good Friday liturgy keeps the proper focus on Christ.

          FCSenn


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • M. Thannisch
          Our custom in the Episcopal Church in Honduras and Texas has been to do Tenebrae on Wednesday night. Actually I beleive tenebrae originally took place on
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
            Our custom in the Episcopal Church in Honduras and Texas has been to do
            Tenebrae on Wednesday night. Actually I beleive tenebrae originally took
            place on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday in addition to other service. Your
            idea of doing a tenebrae style reading Sunday night is interesting. I
            presume you mean to use the Passsion narative instead of the tenebrae
            readings. It is traditional at least in places where I have been to leave
            the church in silence for all services of HolyWeek with just a blessing and
            dismissal.

            To end your Thursday night service you might want to end with a vigil. I
            presume you are a Baptist and do not resreve sacrament. Our custom here is
            to reserve the sacrement on Thursay night and have members of the
            congregation take turns staying up for one hour with the sacrament. We then
            use this reserved sacrament for communion at the principle Good Friday
            Service. At the beginning of the vigil, the Gospel is read of Jesus in the
            Garden of Gesthemen with the apostsles asking if they could not not stay
            awake just one hour.

            In general on Good Friday, at least in some places in Honduras, 9:00
            Stations of the Cross, 12:00 Good Friday Liturgy with sermons on Jesus's
            last words from the cross, (with hymns & silence inbetween) and ending at
            3:00 with communion from the reserved sacrament. Ssome churches will also
            have a burial service just before sunset (that might be a problem in some
            places), and I know of one Brethren Church where they seal the main doors of
            the church with tape to represent the sealing of the tomb.

            Blessings & Shalom,

            Michael Joe Thannisch
            > I've been working on what was to be a minor revision of our Holy Week
            > services, and I'm now wondering whether to do a more radical
            > rearrangement. I'd welcome some feedback on my thinking.
            >
            > In the past on Palm Sunday we have just celebrated our normal Lenten
            > liturgy with the the Palm readings and no passion narrative. Then on the
            > Thursday our service has been gathering, Word, foot washing and a
            > Tenebrae reading of the passion narrative, with no communion.
            >
            > Since we worship in the evening on Sundays, it would be possible to do
            > the whole Passion Narrative on the Sunday in a tenebrae style. We could
            > use the Palm gospel reading earlier in the liturgy and then read the
            > Passion narrative, tenebrae style, in place of the liturgy of the Table.
            > We would finish with a time of silence in the darkness.
            >
            > If the Tenebrae shifted to the Sunday, displacing communion, we could
            > then observe both foot washing and communion on the Thursday, and no
            > Tenebrae. Although Tenebrae has become somewhat associated with the
            > Thursday, its origins were, I believe, in the first three days of Holy
            > Week, so I don't feel there is any great violence in shifting it from
            > the Thursday.
            >
            > While the withholding of communion for the last Sunday in Lent seems
            > okay to me, I'm not sure how to end the service. On Thursday, it makes
            > sense to just leave in silence with no commissioning or blessing, but it
            > doesn't make as much sense on the Sunday.
            >
          • Scott Knitter
            In our parish it has become customary in recent years for our early-music ensemble, Sine Nomine, to sing Healey Willan s setting of the Tenebrae Responsaries
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
              In our parish it has become customary in recent years for our early-music
              ensemble, Sine Nomine, to sing Healey Willan's setting of the Tenebrae
              Responsaries (Willan's spelling) for Maundy Thursday...after the said Mass
              on Wednesday evening of Holy Week. This is listed in the bulletin as "Sine
              Nomine will sing Tenebrae," which mildly bothers me every year because
              we're not coming anywhere close to singing Tenebrae by singing just three
              Lamentations excerpts and three responsories (my spelling!). We're doing
              just one nocturne of Matins, minus a few elements, I'm sure, and leaving
              out Lauds entirely. Just dipping our toes in Tenebrae, so we can wash it
              off on Maundy Thursday. :)

              It's become a way to set the mood for the Triduum, I guess...and that's OK,
              except one of these years I'll write an article for the parish newsletter
              explaining what Tenebrae really is...and perhaps we'll do a full one at
              some point.

              At 08.45 pm 04/02/2001 -0500, M. Thannisch wrote:
              >Our custom in the Episcopal Church in Honduras and Texas has been to do
              >Tenebrae on Wednesday night. Actually I beleive tenebrae originally took
              >place on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday in addition to other service.
            • Pastor Robert White
              ... Some years ago, either on this list or its predecessor, I grumbled about the standard Protestant Good Friday tenebrae. I was pointed the Episcopal Book of
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
                On 2 Apr 2001, at 21:30, fcsenn@... wrote:

                > >From a purist perspective, Tenebrae is a corrupt use of the divine
                > >office.

                > But, of course, I understand that people want to play with lights
                > and sound. The problem with with striving for affect is that it
                > focuses on what happens to the worshiper rather than to the One who
                > is worshiped. The traditional Good Friday liturgy keeps the proper
                > focus on Christ.

                Some years ago, either on this list or its predecessor, I grumbled
                about the standard Protestant Good Friday tenebrae. I was pointed
                the Episcopal Book of Occasional Services Tenebrae for
                Wednesday in Holy Week. We've used it a couple of times and it
                has a small but faithful following.

                Lots of Psalms, Lamentations, and readings from Augustine. It
                seems to me a good preparatory service for Holy Week.

                Bob


                + + + + + + + + + + +
                It isn't that they can't see the solution.
                It is that they can't see the problem.
                -----G.K. Chesterton

                Pastor Robert White
                Christ the Redeemer Lutheran Church (ELCA)
                863 Silliman Ave.
                Erie, PA USA 16511-2060
                814-899-3264
                email: xrredeem@...
              • Robert J. Riley
                Referring to Matins and Lauds of Thursday, Friday, and Saturday of Holy Week, Dr Senn writes that they were
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 2, 2001
                  Referring to Matins and Lauds of Thursday, Friday, and Saturday of Holy
                  Week, Dr Senn writes that they were
                  <<<
                  Anticipated on the night before precisely because Maundy Thursday, Good
                  Friday, and Holy Saturday were such busy days.
                  >>>

                  I believe Matins and Lauds were anticipated for other days as well, in fact
                  typically for most days throughout the year, by many communities and
                  individuals. Pius XII's 1955 reform of Holy Week, which moved the main
                  services of Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday from morning to
                  afternoon or evening, forbade common or choir anticipation of Matins and
                  Lauds for the days of the Sacred Triduum (except that for Maundy Thursday,
                  these hours could be anticipated in places that had the morning Mass of
                  Chrism). The reform marked the end of the dramatic services of Tenebrae
                  (including banging of books, etc.), since now Matins and Lauds in most
                  places were no longer said in the darkness of evening. (The precise rubric
                  is: "MATUTINUM et LAUDES non anticipantur de sero, sed dicuntur mane, hora
                  competenti; in ecclesiis vero, in quibus Missa chrismatis celebratur,
                  Matutinum et Laudes anticipari possunt de sero." I imagine 'mane, hora
                  competenti' would allow for wee-hours (pre-dawn) chanting of Matins in
                  enclosed communities.)

                  (Additionally, in an attempt to simplify and reduce the burden of the
                  Office, the 1955 rubrics say that Vespers on Holy Thursday is not said by
                  those who attend the solemn evening Mass; and that Compline is not said on
                  Holy Saturday.)

                  By the time I joined choral recitation of the Office (in 1962), Matins
                  (Matutinum)was normally (outside of Holy Week) anticipated by my community
                  at 5 p.m. the day before; and it was separated from Lauds, which was said at
                  5:20 a.m. on the day of the Office. (I believe that by that time, rules
                  were already in effect that required Lauds to be held in the morning and
                  Vespers to be held in the afternoon or evening.)

                  In the current Liturgy of the Hours, the "Office of Readings" (which is
                  similar in structure to Matutinum and replaced it) can either be anticipated
                  or said any time during the day of the Office. Only the other hours (Lauds,
                  Daytime Prayer, Vespers, Compline) are keyed to a particular time of day.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert J. Riley
                  mailto:rriley@...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: fcsenn@... [mailto:fcsenn@...]
                  Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:31 PM
                  To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Holy Week Help Requested


                  In a message dated 4/2/2001 8:10:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
                  steve@... writes:


                  > Tenebrae is Matins and Lauds of Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy
                  > Saturday--observed in the night (or the evening before) in monastic
                  worship
                  > before Vatican II.
                  >
                  >

                  Anticipated on the night before precisely because Maundy Thursday, Good
                  Friday, and Holy Saturday were such busy days. Busy not just because of the
                  liturgies of these days, but also because of the confessions required for
                  the
                  Easter communion in which everyone participated.

                  From a purist perspective, Tenebrae is a corrupt use of the divine office.
                  Morning prayer takes place in the morning, not the night before. Its on a
                  par with the medieval custom of doing the Easter Vigil on Saturday morning.
                  Not everything old is necessarily a good practice.

                  But, of course, I understand that people want to play with lights and sound.
                  The problem with with striving for affect is that it focuses on what
                  happens
                  to the worshiper rather than to the One who is worshiped. The traditional
                  Good Friday liturgy keeps the proper focus on Christ.

                  FCSenn


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                • M. Thannisch
                  Maaybe you could choose and easier setting, say a chant and make it through the whole thing. which mildly bothers me every year because ... OK,
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 3, 2001
                    Maaybe you could choose and easier setting, say a chant and make it through
                    the whole thing.

                    which mildly bothers me every year because
                    > we're not coming anywhere close to singing Tenebrae by singing just three
                    > Lamentations excerpts and three responsories (my spelling!). We're doing
                    > just one nocturne of Matins, minus a few elements, I'm sure, and leaving
                    > out Lauds entirely. Just dipping our toes in Tenebrae, so we can wash it
                    > off on Maundy Thursday. :)
                    >
                    > It's become a way to set the mood for the Triduum, I guess...and that's
                    OK,
                    > except one of these years I'll write an article for the parish newsletter
                    > explaining what Tenebrae really is...and perhaps we'll do a full one at
                    > some point.
                    >
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