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Re: [liturgy-l] The liturgy of the hours

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  • Douglas Cowling
    On 8/30/13 1:53 PM, William Renwick ... The prayer books from 1549 to 1662 assume that Matins and Evensong will be said
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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      On 8/30/13 1:53 PM, "William Renwick" <renwick@...>
      wrote:

      >In the case that there is some obligation, I am just wondering whether it
      >is an obligation that is generally respected or ignored.

      The prayer books from 1549 to 1662 assume that Matins and Evensong will be
      said publically by the priest in every parish church. There is a charming
      early rubric somewhere which enjoins the ringing of the bell so that lay
      people, unable to attend, can lift up their hearts in the midst of their
      daily task. Collegiate and cathedral churches maintained the
      pre-Reformation custom of corporate recitation of the offices.

      I suspect that the public recitation of the offices was commonplace in
      parish churches until the Puritan iconoclasm when a strong tradition of
      private recitation appeared for both clerical and lay people who wanted to
      subvert the Puritan order. That voluntary devotion continues to this day.
      At the Restoration, the cathedral and collegiate offices were restored,
      but the parish office seems to have died until Tractarians began to
      restore the practice. Today, with online offices, there are probably more
      people saying the Liturgy of the Hours than ever before.

      At the Counter-Reformation, Catholic clerics were bound to recite all
      seven offices in community or alone if necessary. The corporate
      recitation of the office was dispensed for teaching or active orders like
      the Jesuits who did not have choir obligations. This gradually became the
      pattern for all parish priests. In practice, priests said all of the first
      five offices continuously early in the morning before their day began,
      leaving Vespers and Compline until just before dinner. It was not
      uncommon for priests to "catch up" on their offices during other services
      such as public recitation of the rosary or while waiting for penitents in
      the confessional.

      That was the norm at the beginning of the Second Vatican Council.
      Sharp-eyed progressives used to scan the rows of bishops during the
      opening mass each day to see which bishops were engaged in the mass and
      which were saying their offices during the mass. It became a reliable
      litmus test of a bishop's sympathy with the liturgical movement.

      In the post-conciliar commission, it was recognized that the full
      recitation of the office was only possibly in contemplative monastic
      communities like the Benedictines. Parish priests were encouraged create a
      workable pattern of morning, noon-day,and evening prayers which
      complemented their workday.

      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      Toronto
    • wx5116
      I was particularly interested in your final sentence, which begs the suggestion that the parish priest might want to work out such a pattern that also attracts
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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        I was particularly interested in your final sentence, which begs the suggestion that the parish priest might want to work out such a pattern that also attracts the laity.  If it can be done in (some) anglican churches, with fewer numbers of laity, could it not also be done in the Catholic world?
         
        David
         
        ---------------------------
        David Lewis
        Arlington VA USA
        dlewisaao@...
         
        In a message dated 9/3/2013 1:35:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cowling.douglas@... writes:
        Parish priests were encouraged create a
        workable pattern of morning, noon-day,and  evening prayers which
        complemented their workday.
      • Scott Knitter
        ... Quite a large group participates in the daily Evening Prayer at Holy Name Cathedral, at 5 p.m. before the 5:15 Mass. They pray it from the Daughters of St.
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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          On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:57 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was particularly interested in your final sentence, which begs the suggestion that the parish priest might want to work out such a pattern that also attracts the laity. If it can be done in (some) anglican churches, with fewer numbers of laity, could it not also be done in the Catholic world?


          Quite a large group participates in the daily Evening Prayer at Holy
          Name Cathedral, at 5 p.m. before the 5:15 Mass. They pray it from the
          Daughters of St. Paul edition of Christian Prayer, with copies
          provided. Two officiants lead, with one being the main one who
          announces page numbers and what is to be said. Each officiant leads
          his or her side of the congregation. The people sit in the section of
          pews closest to the sanctuary. This allows those arriving for Mass
          (but not participating in Evening Prayer) to take places in the pews
          farther back.

          I've attended Evening Prayer a few times, and there's an average of
          25-30 attending, I'd say. Attendance at Mass afterward numbers 100+.
          There's also a daily Daytime Prayer before the midday Mass. This
          finishes in time for the Angelus at noon; Mass starts at 12:10.



          --
          Scott R. Knitter
          Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
        • Douglas Cowling
          From: Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The liturgy of the hours If it can be done in (some) anglican churches, with fewer numbers of laity, could
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The liturgy of the hours

            If it can be done in (some) anglican churches, with fewer numbers of laity, could it not also be done in the Catholic world?


            I've certainly encountered it at Catholic conference and at retreats and informal gatherings.

            Doug Cowling
            Director of Music
            St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
            Toronto

          • Douglas Cowling
            ... The Fraternité de Jerusalem has made the daily sung vernacular office a fixture in many Catholic parishes in France. The webcasts from St. Gervais in
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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              On 9/3/13 2:05 PM, "Scott Knitter" <scottknitter@...> wrote:

              >I've attended Evening Prayer a few times, and there's an average of
              >25-30 attending, I'd say. Attendance at Mass afterward numbers 100+.
              >There's also a daily Daytime Prayer before the midday Mass. This
              >finishes in time for the Angelus at noon; Mass starts at 12:10.

              The Fraternité de Jerusalem has made the daily sung vernacular office a
              fixture in many Catholic parishes in France. The webcasts from St.
              Gervais in Paris give you an idea of the musical style: the musical
              leadership is in the hands of the laity.

              Perhaps the finest vernacular office is at Notre-Dame. Also webcast on
              RKO. There really is nothing like it in English.

              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              Toronto
            • Scott Knitter
              On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Douglas Cowling ... Close! KTO. :) http://www.ktotv.com/videos-chretiennes/emissions/vepres-a-notre-dame.html You can download
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Douglas Cowling
                <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                > Perhaps the finest vernacular office is at Notre-Dame. Also webcast on
                > RKO. There really is nothing like it in English.

                Close! KTO. :)

                http://www.ktotv.com/videos-chretiennes/emissions/vepres-a-notre-dame.html

                You can download the people's worship aid / bulletin / service sheet
                at the link along the right-hand side of this page, where there's an
                Acrobat icon and some text starting with "Téléchargez...":
                http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/index.php?page=calendrier&date=2013-9-3&id_rubrique=2


                --
                Scott R. Knitter
                Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
              • Douglas Cowling
                ... They really do some very interesting things that we can learn from. Just listened to today s Vespers which was led by a fine young tenor (they usually have
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                  On 9/3/13 3:17 PM, "Scott Knitter" <scottknitter@...> wrote:

                  >>Perhaps the finest vernacular office is at Notre-Dame. Also webcast on
                  >>RKO. There really is nothing like it in English.
                  >
                  >Close! KTO. :)
                  >
                  >http://www.ktotv.com/videos-chretiennes/emissions/vepres-a-notre-dame.html

                  They really do some very interesting things that we can learn from. Just
                  listened to today's Vespers which was led by a fine young tenor (they
                  usually have a quartet or octet). The two psalms were sung to Gelineau
                  chant responsively with the congregation, and after each psalm the
                  organist segued into two 17th century versets -- perfect bookends for the
                  chanting. A lovely blending of traditions.

                  Alas the free-standing altar looks like a crated motorcycle has just been
                  delivered.

                  Doug Cowling
                  Director of Music
                  St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                  Toronto



                  >
                • William Renwick
                  Thanks for all the interesting responses! ... Does this mean that RC priests no longer have an obligation in this regard? Is there a rule or canon law
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                    Thanks for all the interesting responses!

                    Doug said:
                    > In the post-conciliar commission, it was recognized that the full
                    > recitation of the office was only possibly in contemplative monastic
                    > communities like the Benedictines. Parish priests were encouraged create a
                    > workable pattern of morning, noon-day,and evening prayers which
                    > complemented their workday.

                    Does this mean that RC priests no longer have an obligation in this regard? Is there a "rule" or "canon law" somewhere regarding this?

                    thanks

                    William Renwick
                    renwick@...
                    School of the Arts
                    McMaster University
                    Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2 http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm
                  • James O'Regan
                    Canon 276.3 (1983): priests and transitional deacons are obliged to do liturgy of the hours. All the best, James O Regan PhD oregan@distributel.net
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                      Canon 276.3 (1983): priests and transitional deacons are "obliged' to do liturgy of the hours.

                      All the best,

                      James O'Regan PhD
                      oregan@...




                      On 2013-09-03, at 4:54 PM, William Renwick wrote:

                       

                      Thanks for all the interesting responses!

                      Doug said:
                      > In the post-conciliar commission, it was recognized that the full
                      > recitation of the office was only possibly in contemplative monastic
                      > communities like the Benedictines. Parish priests were encouraged create a
                      > workable pattern of morning, noon-day,and evening prayers which
                      > complemented their workday.

                      Does this mean that RC priests no longer have an obligation in this regard? Is there a "rule" or "canon law" somewhere regarding this?

                      thanks

                      William Renwick
                      renwick@...
                      School of the Arts
                      McMaster University
                      Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2 http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm



                    • William Renwick
                      thanks for the info! between this canon and Doug s suggestion that Priests don have enough time nowadays--do you think that (none-a few-some-most) priests
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                        thanks for the info! between this canon and Doug's suggestion that Priests don' have enough time nowadays--do you think that (none-a few-some-most) priests are turning a blind eye to the canon, as it were? I am not trying cast aspersions on priests, I am just curious about what actually is going on these days.

                        thanks


                        On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 18:12:16 -0400
                        "James O'Regan" <oregan@...> wrote:
                        > Canon 276.3 (1983): priests and transitional deacons are "obliged' to do liturgy of the hours.
                        >
                        > All the best,
                        >
                        > James O'Regan PhD
                        > oregan@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 2013-09-03, at 4:54 PM, William Renwick wrote:
                        >
                        > > Thanks for all the interesting responses!
                        > >
                        > > Doug said:
                        > > > In the post-conciliar commission, it was recognized that the full
                        > > > recitation of the office was only possibly in contemplative monastic
                        > > > communities like the Benedictines. Parish priests were encouraged create a
                        > > > workable pattern of morning, noon-day,and evening prayers which
                        > > > complemented their workday.
                        > >
                        > > Does this mean that RC priests no longer have an obligation in this regard? Is there a "rule" or "canon law" somewhere regarding this?
                        > >
                        > > thanks
                        > >
                        > > William Renwick
                        > > renwick@...
                        > > School of the Arts
                        > > McMaster University
                        > > Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2 http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >

                        William Renwick
                        renwick@...
                        School of the Arts
                        McMaster University
                        Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2 http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm
                      • Scott Knitter
                        You re right, Doug. One thing to learn might be how to have a public Vespers that requires no verbose instructions (none, in fact): just a single-sheet handout
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                          You're right, Doug. One thing to learn might be how to have a public
                          Vespers that requires no verbose instructions (none, in fact): just a
                          single-sheet handout with the essentials for those who want to
                          participate; an organist who is expert at leading it all (and the
                          organist really is the leader here); and good, confident cantors. Any
                          cathedral should be able to build this, but of course it's not without
                          work (to develop the printed matter) and a committed rota of cantors,
                          organists, and a reliable officiant. I guess they have a priest
                          because he censes the altar? Perhaps a lay officiant would simply
                          throw incense on the brazier and not cense the altar. Not sure.

                          At Holy Name Cathedral here in Chicago, it's a bit of a trick to lead
                          the people through Evening Prayer on feasts, when there's a lot of
                          flipping back and forth in the breviary. There are a lot of verbal
                          rubrics: the page number is given for the first psalm, and the
                          antiphon recited, then "Together..." and all repeat the antiphon. Then
                          "Starting with this side..." and the first verse begins. When time
                          comes for the Gloria Patri, the officiant says, "Together..." etc.
                          Lots of guidance necessary like that. It does familiarize people with
                          the Christian Prayer breviary and perhaps gets some of them interested
                          in learning to pray it on their own. But as a service one can drop in
                          for, as a visitor perhaps, it's bewildering. Following the service on
                          a single sheet is so much easier. Once the sheets are created, that
                          work is done. Notre-Dame publishes theirs in a set of really expensive
                          but beautifully done books:
                          http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/spip.php?article1142


                          On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Douglas Cowling
                          <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                          > They really do some very interesting things that we can learn from. Just
                          > listened to today's Vespers which was led by a fine young tenor (they
                          > usually have a quartet or octet). The two psalms were sung to Gelineau
                          > chant responsively with the congregation, and after each psalm the
                          > organist segued into two 17th century versets -- perfect bookends for the
                          > chanting. A lovely blending of traditions.
                          >
                          > Alas the free-standing altar looks like a crated motorcycle has just been
                          > delivered.




                          --
                          Scott R. Knitter
                          Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                        • Douglas Cowling
                          ... The Maitrise of Notre-Dame has a choir school for boys and girls as well a what appears to be a kind of undergraduate program in sacred music: I suspect
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                            On 9/3/13 7:00 PM, "Scott Knitter" <scottknitter@...> wrote:

                            >Any cathedral should be able to build this, but of course it's not without
                            >work (to develop the printed matter) and a committed rota of cantors,
                            >organists, and a reliable officiant.

                            The Maitrise of Notre-Dame has a choir school for boys and girls as well a
                            what appears to be a kind of undergraduate program in sacred music: I
                            suspect its probably a residence for music students in Paris who exchange
                            daily services for accomodation. The quality of singing is exceptional
                            especially when they have a quartet -- they often sing a Reniassicance
                            Magnificat in Latin.

                            And there must be a whole staff of organists who handle that organ
                            expertly. I'm very impressed at the very subtle way that they weave
                            together exceptional improvisations and classical repertoire with a
                            vernacular participatory liturgy. As I said, nothing like it on this side
                            of the Atlantic.

                            Doug Cowling
                            Director of Music
                            St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                            Toronto
                          • Douglas Cowling
                            From: James O Regan m Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The liturgy of the hours Canon 276.3 (1983):
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                              From: James O'Regan <oregan@...>m>
                              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The liturgy of the hours

                              Canon 276.3 (1983): priests and transitional deacons are "obliged' to do liturgy of the hours

                              How is this managed practically?

                              Doug Cowling
                              Director of Music
                              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                              Toronto

                            • wx5116
                              If it is important, it will get done. And an example will be set for the faithful, if done right. Somehow I think that prayer is important. David ... David
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                                If it is important, it will get done.  And an example will be set for the faithful, if done right.
                                 
                                Somehow I think that prayer is important.
                                 
                                David
                                 
                                ---------------------------
                                David Lewis
                                Arlington VA USA
                                dlewisaao@...
                                 
                                In a message dated 9/3/2013 7:00:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, renwick@... writes:
                                thanks for the info!  between this canon and Doug's suggestion that Priests don' have enough time nowadays--do you think that (none-a few-some-most) priests are turning a blind eye to the canon, as it were?  I am not trying cast aspersions on priests, I am just curious about what actually is going on these days.

                                thanks


                                On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 18:12:16 -0400
                                "James O'Regan" <oregan@...> wrote:
                                > Canon 276.3 (1983): priests and transitional deacons are "obliged' to do liturgy of the hours.
                                >
                                > All the best,
                                >
                                > James O'Regan PhD
                                > oregan@...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On 2013-09-03, at 4:54 PM, William Renwick wrote:
                                >
                                > > Thanks for all the interesting responses!
                                > >
                                > > Doug said:
                                > > > In the post-conciliar commission, it was recognized that the full
                                > > > recitation of the office was only possibly in contemplative monastic
                                > > > communities like the Benedictines. Parish priests were encouraged create a
                                > > > workable pattern of morning, noon-day,and evening prayers which
                                > > > complemented their workday.
                                > >
                                > > Does this mean that RC priests no longer have an obligation in this regard? Is there a "rule" or "canon law" somewhere regarding this?
                                > >
                                > > thanks
                                > >
                                > > William Renwick
                                > > renwick@...
                                > > School of the Arts
                                > > McMaster University
                                > > Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2 http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >

                                William Renwick
                                renwick@...
                                School of the Arts
                                McMaster University
                                Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2         http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm

                                   


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                              • wx5116
                                In most places the morning, midday or evening office could be done without music. Or incense. If done simply, really with no verbal instructions required
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                                  In most places the morning, midday or evening office could be done without music.  Or incense.  If done simply, really with no verbal instructions required (other than announcing the Psalms) and with the base liturgy laid out in writing including rubrics, people are not confused and do participate.  That's been my experience.
                                   
                                  David
                                   
                                  ---------------------------
                                  David Lewis
                                  Arlington VA USA
                                  dlewisaao@...
                                   
                                  In a message dated 9/3/2013 8:38:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, scottknitter@... writes:
                                  You're right, Doug. One thing to learn might be how to have a public
                                  Vespers that requires no verbose instructions (none, in fact): just a
                                  single-sheet handout with the essentials for those who want to
                                  participate; an organist who is expert at leading it all (and the
                                  organist really is the leader here); and good, confident cantors. Any
                                  cathedral should be able to build this, but of course it's not without
                                  work (to develop the printed matter) and a committed rota of cantors,
                                  organists, and a reliable officiant. I guess they have a priest
                                  because he censes the altar? Perhaps a lay officiant would simply
                                  throw incense on the brazier and not cense the altar. Not sure.

                                  At Holy Name Cathedral here in Chicago, it's a bit of a trick to lead
                                  the people through Evening Prayer on feasts, when there's a lot of
                                  flipping back and forth in the breviary. There are a lot of verbal
                                  rubrics: the page number is given for the first psalm, and the
                                  antiphon recited, then "Together..." and all repeat the antiphon. Then
                                  "Starting with this side..." and the first verse begins. When time
                                  comes for the Gloria Patri, the officiant says, "Together..." etc.
                                  Lots of guidance necessary like that. It does familiarize people with
                                  the Christian Prayer breviary and perhaps gets some of them interested
                                  in learning to pray it on their own. But as a service one can drop in
                                  for, as a visitor perhaps, it's bewildering. Following the service on
                                  a single sheet is so much easier. Once the sheets are created, that
                                  work is done. Notre-Dame publishes theirs in a set of really expensive
                                  but beautifully done books:
                                  http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/spip.php?article1142


                                  On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Douglas Cowling
                                  <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                                  > They really do some very interesting things that we can learn from. Just
                                  > listened to today's Vespers which was led by a fine young tenor (they
                                  > usually have a quartet or octet). The two psalms were sung to Gelineau
                                  > chant responsively with the congregation, and after each psalm the
                                  > organist segued into two 17th century versets -- perfect bookends for the
                                  > chanting.  A lovely blending of traditions.
                                  >
                                  > Alas the free-standing altar looks like a crated motorcycle has just been
                                  > delivered.




                                  --
                                  Scott R. Knitter
                                  Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA


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                                • Scott Knitter
                                  ... The BCP 1979 Office can be done without announcements, mainly because it contains the full psalter and we don t have a canticle among the psalms. In our
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                                    On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 8:25 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > In most places the morning, midday or evening office could be done without music. Or incense. If done simply, really with no verbal instructions required (other than announcing the Psalms) and with the base liturgy laid out in writing including rubrics, people are not confused and do participate. That's been my experience.


                                    The BCP 1979 Office can be done without announcements, mainly because
                                    it contains the full psalter and we don't have a canticle among the
                                    psalms. In our parish, there's a one-page set of instructions for
                                    visitors on how to find the service and how to use the information on
                                    the hymn board, which gives the psalms and canticles to be used.

                                    Some officiants insist on never giving any instructions; I don't feel
                                    right about leaving anyone behind, so if I think anyone needs
                                    guidance, I'll announce page numbers. This is less necessary at
                                    Evening Prayer than Morning Prayer; the larger set of canticles used
                                    at MP makes for more potential confusion for first-timers.

                                    --
                                    Scott R. Knitter
                                    Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                                  • Scott Knitter
                                    On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Douglas Cowling ... The fine young tenor did very well indeed, but I think these two are my favorites of the Notre-Dame cantors
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Sep 3, 2013
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                                      On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Douglas Cowling
                                      <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                                      > They really do some very interesting things that we can learn from. Just
                                      > listened to today's Vespers which was led by a fine young tenor (they
                                      > usually have a quartet or octet).

                                      The fine young tenor did very well indeed, but I think these two are
                                      my favorites of the Notre-Dame cantors so far. The baritone sounds and
                                      looks like a French Josh Groban....

                                      http://youtu.be/wVK2MGhuT4o

                                      (The cantors are heard after a brief organ bit.) I also like the
                                      lector's delivery of the short reading.

                                      Apparently they have the officiant speak the antiphon before all sing
                                      the Magnificat (almost always in the Royal Tone).


                                      --
                                      Scott R. Knitter
                                      Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                                    • Frank Senn
                                      It is not a requirement in any Lutheran Church that I am aware of.  However, the Rule of the Society of the Holy Trinity, which is a pastoral oratory and an
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Sep 5, 2013
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                                        It is not a requirement in any Lutheran Church that I am aware of.  However, the Rule of the Society of the Holy Trinity, which is a pastoral oratory and an inter-Lutheran ministerium, lays on its members the obligation to pray the Daily Prayer of the Church and to offer the prayer offices as often as possible in the places where one serves. This is understood to be primarily Matins and Vespers, although Compline is increasingly made available in parishes.  In my former congregation (from which I retired) we prayed Compline every Sunday night at 8:30 p.m. Most members of STS (that's Societas Trinitatis Sanctae) use the breviary entitled For All the Saints, published in four volumes by the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau.  It is based on the offices in LBW and uses the 2-year daily lectionary shared in the LBW and the 1979 BCP.  It also follows the 30/31-day course of psalmody in the BCP.

                                        Frank C. Senn, STS  



                                        From: Scott Knitter <scottknitter@...>
                                        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 1:30 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The liturgy of the hours

                                         
                                        I believe Church of England clerics are obligated by canon law to say
                                        the Offices in church (after ringing the bell), with some provision
                                        for exceptions. Roman Catholic clergy are also obligated to pray the
                                        Liturgy of the Hours. In the Episcopal Church there are clerics who
                                        consider it a duty to do so, but it's not a canonical requirement.

                                        Then there are lay Christians like myself who feel called to pray the
                                        Divine Office, in whatever form. I confess I am not always obedient to
                                        this call (even as an oblate who has promised to pray two offices
                                        daily), but the call and promise remain.

                                        On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:53 PM, William Renwick
                                        <renwick@...> wrote:
                                        > HI everyone: I am wondering about the priestly obligation to say the daily hours of the office--
                                        > I understand that RC priests _were_ obliged to say the office daily as part of their calling, their duties. Is this still the case? What are the current rules, if any?
                                        > Are the priests (or deacons) of other denominations obliged in this way at all? Lutheran; Anglican; other? what about the laity?
                                        >
                                        > In the case that there is some obligation, I am just wondering whether it is an obligation that is generally respected or ignored.
                                        >
                                        > with thanks
                                        >
                                        > William Renwick
                                        > renwick@...
                                        > School of the Arts
                                        > McMaster University
                                        > Hamilton Ontario CANADA L8S 4M2 http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/wr.htm
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >

                                        --
                                        Scott R. Knitter
                                        Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA


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