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Re: [liturgy-l] Cathedrals for Ordinariates?

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  • wx5116
    They are both personal ordinariates. The precedent of the military ordinariate(s) and one or more other ordinariates (my memory escapes me but they probably
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 20, 2013
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      They are both personal ordinariates.  The precedent of the military ordinariate(s) and one or more other ordinariates (my memory escapes me but they probably related to a specific religious order or two) was used in setting up the Anglican-derived ordinariates.  All are within the Latin Rite.  The Anglican-derived ordinariates have their own special apostolic constitution, which I would presume would also be the case in the earlier erected ordinariates.
       
      David
       
      ---------------------------
      David Lewis
      Arlington VA USA
      dlewisaao@...
       
      In a message dated 8/20/2013 7:13:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cowling.douglas@... writes:


      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Cathedrals for Ordinariates?

      My impression is that the archbishop of the military services (USA) across the river in DC does not have a cathedral because his jurisdiction is extraterritorial v/v Latin Rite dioceses.  This would be parallel to the situation with the Ordinariates. 
       
      This would be different than for Catholic rites parallel to the Latin Rite, i.e., the Eastern Rites, which would have cathedrals for their bishops and prelates of similar import.


      Is this a private or canonical opinion that ordinariates are comparable to the military ordinariate and not the Uniate rites? I;m assuming the military ordinariate only uses the Latin rite.  The An glican ordinariates, on the other hand, have differences in rite, governance and clerical discipline that make them closer to the Uniate rites.

      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      Toronto

    • James
      Doug, I know a Melkite priest who is a retired military chaplain. He is the chaplain of a small ER Convent here in Olympia. I doubt that there are many ER
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 22, 2013
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        Doug, I know a Melkite priest who is a retired military chaplain. He is the chaplain of a small ER Convent here in Olympia.
        I doubt that there are many ER Catholic chaplains abounding.

        Rdr. James Morgan
        Olympia, WA

        --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: <dlewisaao@...>
        > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Cathedrals for Ordinariates?
        >
        > My impression is that the archbishop of the military services (USA) across
        > the river in DC does not have a cathedral because his jurisdiction is
        > extraterritorial v/v Latin Rite dioceses. This would be parallel to the
        > situation with the Ordinariates.
        >
        > This would be different than for Catholic rites parallel to the Latin Rite,
        > i.e., the Eastern Rites, which would have cathedrals for their bishops and
        > prelates of similar import.
        >
        >
        > Is this a private or canonical opinion that ordinariates are comparable to
        > the military ordinariate and not the Uniate rites? I;m assuming the military
        > ordinariate only uses the Latin rite. The Anglican ordinariates, on the
        > other hand, have differences in rite, governance and clerical discipline
        > that make them closer to the Uniate rites.
        >
        > Doug Cowling
        > Director of Music
        > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
        > Toronto
        >
      • James
        i remember from ages past, an experienced Irish Catholic priest referring to protonotaries apostolicae as mule bishops .... Rdr. James Morgan
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 22, 2013
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          i remember from ages past, an experienced Irish Catholic priest referring to protonotaries apostolicae as 'mule bishops'....

          Rdr. James Morgan

          --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: David Waller <d.a.waller@...>
          > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Cathedrals for Ordinariates?
          >
          > As far as I know, the only priests using pontificals are the ordinaries of
          > the 3 ordinariates. This is not a new situation in so far as the rubrics
          > state that those who are equivalent in law to bishops are to dress as
          > bishops. An example would be an abbot.
          >
          > There are other former Anglican bishops, both in the ordinariates and
          > dioceses, who have been made monsignori and these are lesser prelates but
          > they dress according to their rank and do not use pontificals.
          >
          >
          > There are many monsignori, most notably papal notaries and mitred priests,
          > who used to be able to celebrate with russet-tipped infulae on their mitres
          > and pectoral cross, but not with crozier or ring. I think these privileges
          > were withdrawn by Paul VI, principally because the monsignori did not have
          > jurisidiction in the same sense as a bishop or abbot. Are they being
          > revived for the ordinariate prelates?
          >
          > Doug Cowling
          > Director of Music
          > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
          > Toronto
          >
        • wx5116
          Here is what Wikipedia has to say about this topic, beginning with the military ordinariates as a precedent: A military ordinariate is an ecclesiastical
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 22, 2013
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            Here is what Wikipedia has to say about this topic, beginning with the military ordinariates as a precedent:
             

            A military ordinariate is an ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church, of Latin or Eastern Rite, responsible for the pastoral care of Catholics serving in the armed forces of a nation.

            Until 1986, they were called "military vicariates" and had a status similar to that apostolic vicariates, which are headed by a bishop who receives his authority by delegation from the Pope. The apostolic constitution Spirituali militum curae of 21 April 1986 raised their status, declaring that the bishop who heads one of them is an "ordinary", holding authority by virtue of his office, and not by delegation from another person in authority. It likened the military vicariates to dioceses. Each of them is headed by a bishop, who may have the personal rank of archbishop. If the bishop is a diocesan rather than a titular bishop, he is likely to delegate the daily functions to an auxiliary bishop or a lower cleric.

            Some nations have military ordinariates of the Anglican Communion, Lutheranism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

            The personal ordinariates for Anglicans entering the Catholic Church announced on 20 October 2009 are similar in some ways to the existing military ordinariates. But the jurisdiction of military ordinariates is cumulative to that of the diocesan bishops.

             
            ---------------------------
            David Lewis
            Arlington VA USA
            dlewisaao@...
             
            In a message dated 8/22/2013 8:31:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rdrjames@... writes:
            Doug, I know a Melkite priest who is a retired military chaplain. He is the chaplain of a small ER Convent here in Olympia.
            I doubt that there are many ER Catholic chaplains abounding.

            Rdr. James Morgan
            Olympia, WA

            --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
            >
            > From:  <dlewisaao@...>
            > Subject:  Re: [liturgy-l] Cathedrals for Ordinariates?
            >
            > My impression is that the archbishop of the military services (USA) across
            > the river in DC does not have a cathedral because his jurisdiction is
            > extraterritorial v/v Latin Rite dioceses.  This would be parallel to the
            > situation with the Ordinariates.

            > This would be different than for Catholic rites parallel to the Latin Rite,
            > i.e., the Eastern Rites, which would have cathedrals for their bishops and
            > prelates of similar import.
            >
            >
            > Is this a private or canonical opinion that ordinariates are comparable to
            > the military ordinariate and not the Uniate rites? I;m assuming the military
            > ordinariate only uses the Latin rite.  The Anglican ordinariates, on the
            > other hand, have differences in rite, governance and clerical discipline
            > that make them closer to the Uniate rites.
            >
            > Doug Cowling
            > Director of Music
            > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
            > Toronto
            >




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