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Re: [liturgy-l] New Sacristy Dress Code

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  • Lewis Whitaker
    It ll be okay. The Anglican Patrimony will preserve all that is precious.
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 5, 2013
      It'll be okay. The Anglican Patrimony will preserve all that is precious.


      On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:43 PM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


      I can see it now:  Priests showing up fashionably late for Mass, still in tennis clothes plus
      racket, quickly throwing a chasuble over the top......The ultimate legacy of the "ripple
      effect".
       
      It's hard to find a happy medium between "mounting liturgical fastidiousness" and
      the wearing of "simple black clerical dress".
       
      I feel a little like the sad observer quoted in the "Introduction to the First and Second
      Prayer Books of Edward VI" who notes ++Cranmer appearing in alb only and "without cope"
      for Evensong at Saint Paul's London.
       
       
      David Strang.
       
       
       

      From: Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...>
      To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 11:27 AM
      Subject: [liturgy-l] New Sacristy Dress Code
       
      NCR: "A revolution underway with Pope Francis"- John Allen

      "Clergy who chafed under what they perceived as a mounting liturgical
      fastidiousness during the late John Paul II and Benedict years --
      showing up for a papal Mass, for instance, only to be told they weren't
      properly dressed because they weren't sporting enough crimson and lace
      -- report all that ended in mid-March.

      Francis' humbler lifestyle is having a ripple effect. Princes of the
      church today are more likely to be spotted wearing simple black clerical
      dress rather than the usual sartorial splendor, and some have begun to
      sign their names in official correspondence simply as "Don So-and-So,"
      avoiding "His Eminence" or other bits of court nomenclature."

      http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/revolution-underway

      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      Toronto




    • James
      Lew, did you really mean precious ?
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 5, 2013
        Lew, did you really mean 'precious'?

        --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
        >
        > It'll be okay. The Anglican Patrimony will preserve all that is precious.
        >
        >
        > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:43 PM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...>wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > I can see it now: Priests showing up fashionably late for Mass, still in
        > > tennis clothes plus
        > > racket, quickly throwing a chasuble over the top......The ultimate legacy
        > > of the "ripple
        > > effect".
        > >
        > > It's hard to find a happy medium between "mounting liturgical
        > > fastidiousness" and
        > > the wearing of "simple black clerical dress".
        > >
        > > I feel a little like the sad observer quoted in the "Introduction to the
        > > First and Second
        > > Prayer Books of Edward VI" who notes ++Cranmer appearing in alb only and
        > > "without cope"
        > > for Evensong at Saint Paul's London.
        > >
        > >
        > > David Strang.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > *From:* Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...>
        > > *To:* Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        > > *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2013 11:27 AM
        > > *Subject:* [liturgy-l] New Sacristy Dress Code
        > > **
        > >
        > > NCR: "A revolution underway with Pope Francis"- John Allen
        > >
        > > "Clergy who chafed under what they perceived as a mounting liturgical
        > > fastidiousness during the late John Paul II and Benedict years --
        > > showing up for a papal Mass, for instance, only to be told they weren't
        > > properly dressed because they weren't sporting enough crimson and lace
        > > -- report all that ended in mid-March.
        > >
        > > Francis' humbler lifestyle is having a ripple effect. Princes of the
        > > church today are more likely to be spotted wearing simple black clerical
        > > dress rather than the usual sartorial splendor, and some have begun to
        > > sign their names in official correspondence simply as "Don So-and-So,"
        > > avoiding "His Eminence" or other bits of court nomenclature."
        > >
        > > http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/revolution-underway
        > >
        > > Doug Cowling
        > > Director of Music
        > > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
        > > Toronto
        > >
        > > ****
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Simon Kershaw
        Precious is such a lovely ambiguous word in this context. But I m sure the moderators would want to remind us that cutting remarks about other denominations
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 6, 2013
          'Precious' is such a lovely ambiguous word in this context.

          But I'm sure the moderators would want to remind us that cutting remarks
          about other denominations are not part of this list's mandate :-)

          simon

          On 06/08/2013 03.37, James wrote:
          > Lew, did you really mean 'precious'?
          >
          > --- Inliturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Lewis Whitaker<lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
          >> >
          >> >It'll be okay. The Anglican Patrimony will preserve all that is precious.



          --
          Simon Kershaw
          simon@...
          Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
        • Robert White
          Re: [liturgy-l] Re: New Sacristy Dress Code Tuesday, August 6, 2013, 3:25:34 AM,Simon Kershaw wrote: Precious is such a lovely ambiguous word in this
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 7, 2013
            Re: [liturgy-l] Re: New Sacristy Dress Code Tuesday, August 6, 2013, 3:25:34 AM,Simon Kershaw wrote:


            'Precious' is such a lovely ambiguous word in this context.

            But I'm sure the moderators would want to remind us that cutting remarks 
            about other denominations are not part of this list's mandate 


            Yes, we would.

            I was asked once upon a time in an interview with a call committee and the Senior Pastor about my approach to conducting the liturgy. My initial response was that it should be done well; when pressed to expand, I defined that as "carefully but not fussily." 

            -- 
            Best regards,
             Bob White                        
            mailto:prrmwhite@...

            The Christian Faith has not been tried and found wanting. 
            It has been found difficult and left untried. 
            -- Chesterton
                 
          • Lewis Whitaker
            How did you expand on fussily? Wait, you didn t, right? How do you define fussily in this context, and how is this different from precious Precious:
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 7, 2013
              How did you expand on "fussily?"

              Wait, you didn't, right?

              How do you define "fussily" in this context, and how is this different from "precious"

              Precious:
              Adjective --
              of an object, substance, or resource. Of great value; not to be wasted or treated carelessly.




              On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Robert White <whiteslists@...> wrote:


              Tuesday, August 6, 2013, 3:25:34 AM,Simon Kershaw wrote:


              'Precious' is such a lovely ambiguous word in this context.

              But I'm sure the moderators would want to remind us that cutting remarks 
              about other denominations are not part of this list's mandate 


              Yes, we would.

              I was asked once upon a time in an interview with a call committee and the Senior Pastor about my approach to conducting the liturgy. My initial response was that it should be done well; when pressed to expand, I defined that as "carefully but not fussily." 

              -- 
              Best regards,
               Bob White                        
              mailto:prrmwhite@...

              The Christian Faith has not been tried and found wanting. 
              It has been found difficult and left untried. 
              -- Chesterton
                   


            • John Schultz
              fussily fuss·y [fuhs-ee] adjective, fuss·i·er, fuss·i·est. 1. excessively busy with trifles; anxious or particular about petty details. 2. hard to
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 7, 2013

                fussily

                  


                fuss·y

                  [fuhs-ee] 
                adjective, fuss·i·er, fuss·i·est.
                1.
                excessively busy with trifles; anxious or particular about petty details.
                2.
                hard to satisfy or please: a fussy eater.
                3.
                (of clothes, decoration, etc.) elaborately made, trimmed, or decorated: All the bric-a-brac gave the rooma fussy, cluttered look.
                4.
                full of details, especially in excess: His writing is so fussy I lose the thread of the story.


                On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
                 

                How did you expand on "fussily?"

                Wait, you didn't, right?

                How do you define "fussily" in this context, and how is this different from "precious"

                Precious:
                Adjective --
                of an object, substance, or resource. Of great value; not to be wasted or treated carelessly.




                On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Robert White <whiteslists@...> wrote:


                Tuesday, August 6, 2013, 3:25:34 AM,Simon Kershaw wrote:


                'Precious' is such a lovely ambiguous word in this context.

                But I'm sure the moderators would want to remind us that cutting remarks 
                about other denominations are not part of this list's mandate 


                Yes, we would.

                I was asked once upon a time in an interview with a call committee and the Senior Pastor about my approach to conducting the liturgy. My initial response was that it should be done well; when pressed to expand, I defined that as "carefully but not fussily." 

                -- 
                Best regards,
                 Bob White                        
                mailto:prrmwhite@...

                The Christian Faith has not been tried and found wanting. 
                It has been found difficult and left untried. 
                -- Chesterton
                     



              • Simon Kershaw
                ... The difference is surely that it is okay in this forum to parody one s own position or to be somewhat snide about it; and it is okay perhaps to be snide
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 7, 2013
                  On 07/08/2013 15.44, Lewis Whitaker wrote:
                  > How do you define "fussily" in this context, and how is this different from
                  > "precious"

                  The difference is surely that it is okay in this forum to parody one's
                  own position or to be somewhat snide about it; and it is okay perhaps to
                  be snide about some generic and unspecified 'them'. What is less
                  acceptable is to be snide about a specific group with whom one
                  disagrees. That's not to say that one can't disagree with others, but
                  disagreement should be expressed cogently and politely -- and above all,
                  on this list, should be relevant to liturgy.

                  simon

                  --
                  Simon Kershaw
                  simon@...
                  Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
                • Robert White
                  Re: [liturgy-l] Re: New Sacristy Dress Code Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 10:44:35 AM,Lewis Whitaker wrote: How do you define fussily in this context, and how
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 9, 2013
                    Re: [liturgy-l] Re: New Sacristy Dress Code Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 10:44:35 AM,Lewis Whitaker wrote:


                    How do you define "fussily" in this context, and how is this different from "precious" 


                    The dictionary definition provided by John Schultz works for me. As does Simon Kershaw's reminder about list etiquette.

                    -- 
                    Best regards,
                     Bob White                        
                    mailto:prrmwhite@...

                    It has been said that though God cannot alter the past, 
                    historians can; it is perhaps because they can be useful to Him 
                    in this respect that He tolerates their existence. 
                    -- Samuel Bulter--Erewhon Revisited
                         
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