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Origin of a liturgical expression

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  • wx5116
    When using the standard phrase may he/she/they rest in peace the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add and rise in glory. Does anyone know
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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      When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
       
      Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
       
      David
       
      ---------------------------
      David Lewis
      Arlington VA USA
      dlewisaao@...
    • Lewis Whitaker
      The Orthodox expression is May his memory be eternal.
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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        The Orthodox expression is "May his memory be eternal."


        On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


        When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
         
        Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
         
        David
         
        ---------------------------
        David Lewis
        Arlington VA USA
        dlewisaao@...



      • Lewis Whitaker
        David: This might help clear it up a bit.... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rest+in+peace+rise+in+glory Lew
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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          David:

          This might help clear it up a bit....

          http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rest+in+peace+rise+in+glory

          Lew



          On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


          When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
           
          Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
           
          David
           
          ---------------------------
          David Lewis
          Arlington VA USA
          dlewisaao@...



        • Scott Knitter
          It annoys me, in one online forum, when I post May his/her soul and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace and instead of
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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            It annoys me, in one online forum, when I post "May his/her soul and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace" and instead of "Amen," someone habitually adds "And rise in glory!!!" I know they mean to join in the prayer, so I should be more patient, but it always seems like my prayer (from our BCP's Burial Office) is incomplete or inadequate somehow.

            I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." 


            On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:


            David:

            This might help clear it up a bit....

            http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rest+in+peace+rise+in+glory

            Lew



            On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


            When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
             
            Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
             
            David
             
            ---------------------------
            David Lewis
            Arlington VA USA
            dlewisaao@...








            --
            Scott R. Knitter
            Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
          • wx5116
            That s my concern - the matter of overall authority and what really happens to souls in terms of Catholic teaching. David ... David Lewis Arlington VA USA
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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              That's my concern - the matter of overall authority and what really happens to souls in terms of Catholic teaching.
               
              David
               
              ---------------------------
              David Lewis
              Arlington VA USA
              dlewisaao@...
               
              In a message dated 4/28/2013 7:50:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, scottknitter@... writes:


              It annoys me, in one online forum, when I post "May his/her soul and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace" and instead of "Amen," someone habitually adds "And rise in glory!!!" I know they mean to join in the prayer, so I should be more patient, but it always seems like my prayer (from our BCP's Burial Office) is incomplete or inadequate somehow.

              I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." 


              On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:


              David:

              This might help clear it up a bit....

              http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rest+in+peace+rise+in+glory

              Lew



              On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


              When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
               
              Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
               
              David
               
              ---------------------------
              David Lewis
              Arlington VA USA
              dlewisaao@...








              --
              Scott R. Knitter
              Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
            • Jim .
              I ve heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, Souls don t rise. ....depends on one s interpretation of soul . I m supposed to believe in
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                "I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." "
                ....depends on one's interpretation of "soul".   I'm supposed to believe in the resurrection of the body...is not my soul part of my being? My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with my body at death, preserved and then later reunited with a new and improved resurrected body?  So in that sense, the soul rises to a new being. A stretch, I know, but since so far, there has only been one resurrection, one can only speculate.
                 


                Never Forget Newtown
                 

                To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                From: scottknitter@...
                Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 18:49:42 -0500
                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression

                 
                It annoys me, in one online forum, when I post "May his/her soul and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace" and instead of "Amen," someone habitually adds "And rise in glory!!!" I know they mean to join in the prayer, so I should be more patient, but it always seems like my prayer (from our BCP's Burial Office) is incomplete or inadequate somehow.

                I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." 


                On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:


                David:

                This might help clear it up a bit....

                http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rest+in+peace+rise+in+glory

                Lew



                On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


                When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
                 
                Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
                 
                David
                 
                ---------------------------
                David Lewis
                Arlington VA USA
                dlewisaao@...








                --
                Scott R. Knitter
                Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA


              • Douglas Cowling
                From: Jim . Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression I ve heard of a priest countering the added phrase by
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                  From: "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...>
                  Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression

                  "I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." "
                  ....depends on one's interpretation of "soul".


                  "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

                  Is this a passive-active resurrection debate?

                  Doug Cowling
                  Director of Music
                  St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                  Toronto

                • Robert White
                  Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression Sunday, April 28, 2013, 9:37:41 PM,Jim . wrote: My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                    Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression Sunday, April 28, 2013, 9:37:41 PM,Jim . wrote:


                    My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with my body at death, preserved and then later reunited with a new and improved resurrected body? So in that sense, the soul rises to a new being.


                    Just a theological question--if your soul is eternal, why did Jesus have to die to redeem it?

                    -- 
                    Best regards,
                     Bob White                        
                    mailto:prrmwhite@...

                    The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated 
                    by the world, not in its being convincing to it.
                    --Ignatius of Antioch
                         
                  • wx5116
                    All of this discussion thus far is very interesting, but is there any liturgical authority for the added words in question? Are they intrinsic to the liturgy
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                      All of this discussion thus far is very interesting, but is there any liturgical authority for the added words in question?  Are they intrinsic to the liturgy of any particular denomination?  Are they contained in a particular Prayer Book or Missal or are they just something added per the preference of those who think the added words are nice/desired?
                       
                      David
                       
                      ---------------------------
                      David Lewis
                      Arlington VA USA
                      dlewisaao@...
                       
                      In a message dated 4/28/2013 9:56:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, whiteslists@... writes:


                      Sunday, April 28, 2013, 9:37:41 PM,Jim . wrote:


                      My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with my body at death, preserved and then later reunited with a new and improved resurrected body? So in that sense, the soul rises to a new being.


                      Just a theological question--if your soul is eternal, why did Jesus have to die to redeem it?

                      -- 
                      Best regards,
                       Bob White                        
                      mailto:prrmwhite@...

                      The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated 
                      by the world, not in its being convincing to it.
                      --Ignatius of Antioch
                           
                    • Lewis Whitaker
                      *Quoted text below: I dislike the ‘rise in glory’ bit intensely when our choir says it in the vestry after services. However, my annoyance has prompted me
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                        Quoted text below:


                        I dislike the ‘rise in glory’ bit intensely when our choir says it in the vestry after services.

                        However, my annoyance has prompted me to do a bit of research, with the help of friends on The Ship of Fools website.

                        I was surprised to find ‘real, serious, anglo-catholic precedent, e.g.
                        From the *Guild of All Souls or from Arthur Tooth*: Rest eternal grant to them O Lord, and let light perpetual shine upon them: May their souls, and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God rest in peace. May they rise in glory.

                        Also, /The Treasury of devotion a manual of prayer for general and daily use/ (1863) by Thomas Thellusson Carter "Rector of Clewer, Berks" and founder of the *Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament* has vestry
                        prayers: ... such as are yet alive may finish their course with joy, and that such as are dead in the LORD may rest in peace and hope, and rise in glory: for the LORD'S sake Whose Death we are now about to commemorate

                        However, I think it is *theologically unsound* because the original petition refers to the soul and not the body. The soul does not 'rise'.

                        It is *protestant* in that the 'rise in glory' response may have originated with an Anglican pastoral desire to pray for the dead without a commitment to a doctrine of Purgatory.

                        It may have become more common because Common Worship has taken it up – so, at least, now prayer for the departed occurs in official C of E
                        liturgy: That all who with Christ have entered the shadow of death may rest in peace and rise in glory, let us pray to the Lord: (CW Biddings, Responses Epiphany)

                        Give rest to the departed and bring them, with your saints, to glory
                        everlasting: R (CM Passiontide)
                        http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/daily/prayers/prayers.html

                        Methodists also have it: May the souls of the faithful, Through the mercy of God,

                        Rest in peace and rise in glory. *Amen *

                        http://www.methodist.org.uk/downloads/me_stewardship_prayer%20evening.pdf

                        Anglo-Catholics, such as the Jubilee Group have used it: + May the souls of the departed rest in peace. P. AND RISE IN GLORY. AMEN.

                        http://www.anglocatholicsocialism.org/maymass.html

                        By adding 'rise in glory' as a response the prayer was turned into a more general one for the well-being of the departed rather than a specific one for relief of the holy souls.

                        Because protestants generally believe that the soul is resting until it is reunited with the body (which rises in or to glory), the addition of the 'rise in glory' renders the prayer meaningless if pastorally comforting. However, it makes it into a prayer for the dead person's salvation. A hope that they will be part of the general resurrection and live in the presence of God.

                        However, it could be said to be *specifically Christian* in that "Rest in Peace" on its own could be said by a non-believer. "RIP" is commonly used on graves by non-believers as a vague acknowledgement that the dead person's troubles are now over.

                        Maybe we *should be pleased* that the C of E is absorbing some of its catholic heritage. Prayers for the departed are spreading into circles where they have previously been unknown. However, are these petitions accompanied by an understanding that, Purgatory or no, our bodies and souls will not be reunited until the Last Judgment.

                        Some say that became *fashionable* when Robert Runcie introduced it at Cuddesdon theological college in the late 1960s Cuddesdon was in the process of amalgamating with Ripon Hall and changing from being a 'catholic' college in ethos to a more 'liberal' one).

                        It was used at the funeral of Diana
                        <http://www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/diana/order.html#prayers>, Princess of
                        Wales: "At one with all the faithful, living and departed, may you rest in peace and rise in glory, where grief and misery are banished and light and joy evermore abide.”

                        However, its use seems to *go back much further* than I previously thought. The phrase "Let thy child *rest in hope* and rise in glory" and similar prayers seem to be a common grave inscription.

                        In the 18th and 19th century, /Family prayers: collected from the sacred scriptures, the Book of Common Prayer and the works of Bishop Wilson/ by the Right Rev. William Mead D.D., Assistant Bishops of Virginia... “(Wm.
                        M. Morrison, Alexandria DC, 1834.) a long, long Evening prayer attributed to "Bishop Wilson" ends: And now, O God all-powerful take us, this night under thy protection, preserve us from the powers of darkness and the dangers of the night and by they grace and providence bring us at the last through all the trials and temptations of this world to a blessed end, that we may *rest in hope and rise in glory* through Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour to whom with thee and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory, world without end, Amen

                        Assuming that "Bishop Wilson" is Thomas Wilson, Bishop of Sodor and Man from 1697 to 1755, he had a personal prayer: Grant, O God, that I may die in peace, and rest in hope, and rise in glory.

                        And a pre-Communion prayer: "... as are dead in the Lord, may rest in hope and rise in glory for Thy Son s m sake, whose death we now commemorate..."

                        The Calvinist Archbishop Ussher attributed: ‘Thou didst undergo burial, and rise in glory, and raise up Adam together with thee, by thy almighty hand’ to a Greek Prayer in his "Answer to a Jesuit's Challenge" of 1656

                        In the "Visitation of the Sick." In /The clergyman's companion containing the occasional offices of the Protestant Episcopal Church, with prayers suitable to be used by the clergy of the said church in the discharge of their parochial duties/ (1885) by Thomas Whittaker of New
                        York: "... let him die in peace, and rest in hope, and rise in glory through ... "

                        / /

                        /Ritualism Romanism And The English Reformation/ (Bampton Lectures of
                        1857) by William Edward Jelf attributes the words: ‘...and that such as are dead in the Lord may rest in peace and hope, and rise in glory’ to the Treasury of Devotion.

                        /The Christian doctrine of prayer for the departed/ (1875) by Frederick George Lee, Vicar of All Saints Lambeth: May he rest in peace and rise in glory

                        At Wickwar church in Glos. is a monument to Mr. John Purnell: Here lyeth a rare example of much goodness, Mr John Purnell, late of the Pool-House, in this parish, who died August the 16th, 1726, aged 46. He was a zealous member of the Church of England, a loving husband, a tender father, a kind relation, a generous friend, always acceptable to the rich, and liberal to the poor. Injury s between others he easily reconciled, his own as readily forgave. A blessed peacemaker, j He was through the whole course of his life a sincere Christian, without ostentation, and a lover of all mankind, without desire of praise.
                        Reader, go thou and do likewise, *that thou mayest rest in peace, and rise in glory*."

                        http://www.gssonline.org.uk/forum_rise_in_glory.htm


                        On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 10:07 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


                        All of this discussion thus far is very interesting, but is there any liturgical authority for the added words in question?  Are they intrinsic to the liturgy of any particular denomination?  Are they contained in a particular Prayer Book or Missal or are they just something added per the preference of those who think the added words are nice/desired?
                         
                        David
                         
                        ---------------------------
                        David Lewis
                        Arlington VA USA
                        dlewisaao@...
                         
                        In a message dated 4/28/2013 9:56:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, whiteslists@... writes:


                        Sunday, April 28, 2013, 9:37:41 PM,Jim . wrote:


                        My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with my body at death, preserved and then later reunited with a new and improved resurrected body? So in that sense, the soul rises to a new being.


                        Just a theological question--if your soul is eternal, why did Jesus have to die to redeem it?

                        -- 
                        Best regards,
                         Bob White                        
                        mailto:prrmwhite@...

                        The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated 
                        by the world, not in its being convincing to it.
                        --Ignatius of Antioch
                             



                      • Robert White
                        Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression Sunday, April 28, 2013, 10:37:56 PM,Lewis Whitaker wrote: Because protestants generally believe that the soul
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                          Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression Sunday, April 28, 2013, 10:37:56 PM,Lewis Whitaker wrote:


                          Because protestants generally believe that the soul is resting until it is reunited with the body (which rises in or to glory), the addition of the 'rise in glory' renders the prayer meaningless if pastorally comforting. However, it makes it into a prayer for the dead person's salvation. A hope that they will be part of the general resurrection and live in the presence of God.


                          to put a fine point on it: in both the Nicene and Apostles Creeds we profess a belief in the resurrection of the body, not the immortality of the soul. I suspect that the later is the more common belief across the spectrum of Christianity (and other world religions for that matter).


                          -- 
                          Best regards,
                           Bob White                        
                          mailto:prrmwhite@...

                          The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated 
                          by the world, not in its being convincing to it.
                          --Ignatius of Antioch
                               
                        • George Carlson
                          Excellent detailed scholarship . But I still dislike for purely personal (an theological) reasons. In omnibus pax, George Carlson St. Paul s (TEC)
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 28, 2013
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                            Excellent detailed scholarship … But I still dislike for purely personal (an theological) reasons.

                             

                            In omnibus pax,

                            George Carlson

                            St. Paul’s (TEC)

                            Murfreesboro, TN

                             

                            From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Whitaker
                            Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:38 PM
                            To: Liturgy-L
                            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression

                             

                             

                            Quoted text below:


                            I dislike the ‘rise in glory’ bit intensely when our choir says it in the vestry after services.

                            However, my annoyance has prompted me to do a bit of research, with the help of friends on The Ship of Fools website.

                            I was surprised to find ‘real, serious, anglo-catholic precedent, e.g.
                            From the *Guild of All Souls or from Arthur Tooth*: Rest eternal grant to them O Lord, and let light perpetual shine upon them: May their souls, and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God rest in peace. May they rise in glory.

                            Also, /The Treasury of devotion a manual of prayer for general and daily use/ (1863) by Thomas Thellusson Carter "Rector of Clewer, Berks" and founder of the *Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament* has vestry
                            prayers: ... such as are yet alive may finish their course with joy, and that such as are dead in the LORD may rest in peace and hope, and rise in glory: for the LORD'S sake Whose Death we are now about to commemorate

                            However, I think it is *theologically unsound* because the original petition refers to the soul and not the body. The soul does not 'rise'.

                            It is *protestant* in that the 'rise in glory' response may have originated with an Anglican pastoral desire to pray for the dead without a commitment to a doctrine of Purgatory.

                            It may have become more common because Common Worship has taken it up – so, at least, now prayer for the departed occurs in official C of E
                            liturgy: That all who with Christ have entered the shadow of death may rest in peace and rise in glory, let us pray to the Lord: (CW Biddings, Responses Epiphany)

                            Give rest to the departed and bring them, with your saints, to glory
                            everlasting: R (CM Passiontide)
                            http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/liturgy/commonworship/texts/daily/prayers/prayers.html

                            Methodists also have it: May the souls of the faithful, Through the mercy of God,

                            Rest in peace and rise in glory. *Amen *

                            http://www.methodist.org.uk/downloads/me_stewardship_prayer%20evening.pdf

                            Anglo-Catholics, such as the Jubilee Group have used it: + May the souls of the departed rest in peace. P. AND RISE IN GLORY. AMEN.

                            http://www.anglocatholicsocialism.org/maymass.html

                            By adding 'rise in glory' as a response the prayer was turned into a more general one for the well-being of the departed rather than a specific one for relief of the holy souls.

                            Because protestants generally believe that the soul is resting until it is reunited with the body (which rises in or to glory), the addition of the 'rise in glory' renders the prayer meaningless if pastorally comforting. However, it makes it into a prayer for the dead person's salvation. A hope that they will be part of the general resurrection and live in the presence of God.

                            However, it could be said to be *specifically Christian* in that "Rest in Peace" on its own could be said by a non-believer. "RIP" is commonly used on graves by non-believers as a vague acknowledgement that the dead person's troubles are now over.

                            Maybe we *should be pleased* that the C of E is absorbing some of its catholic heritage. Prayers for the departed are spreading into circles where they have previously been unknown. However, are these petitions accompanied by an understanding that, Purgatory or no, our bodies and souls will not be reunited until the Last Judgment.

                            Some say that became *fashionable* when Robert Runcie introduced it at Cuddesdon theological college in the late 1960s Cuddesdon was in the process of amalgamating with Ripon Hall and changing from being a 'catholic' college in ethos to a more 'liberal' one).

                            It was used at the funeral of Diana
                            <http://www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/diana/order.html#prayers>, Princess of
                            Wales: "At one with all the faithful, living and departed, may you rest in peace and rise in glory, where grief and misery are banished and light and joy evermore abide.”

                            However, its use seems to *go back much further* than I previously thought. The phrase "Let thy child *rest in hope* and rise in glory" and similar prayers seem to be a common grave inscription.

                            In the 18th and 19th century, /Family prayers: collected from the sacred scriptures, the Book of Common Prayer and the works of Bishop Wilson/ by the Right Rev. William Mead D.D., Assistant Bishops of Virginia... “(Wm.
                            M. Morrison, Alexandria DC, 1834.) a long, long Evening prayer attributed to "Bishop Wilson" ends: And now, O God all-powerful take us, this night under thy protection, preserve us from the powers of darkness and the dangers of the night and by they grace and providence bring us at the last through all the trials and temptations of this world to a blessed end, that we may *rest in hope and rise in glory* through Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour to whom with thee and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory, world without end, Amen

                            Assuming that "Bishop Wilson" is Thomas Wilson, Bishop of Sodor and Man from 1697 to 1755, he had a personal prayer: Grant, O God, that I may die in peace, and rest in hope, and rise in glory.

                            And a pre-Communion prayer: "... as are dead in the Lord, may rest in hope and rise in glory for Thy Son s m sake, whose death we now commemorate..."

                            The Calvinist Archbishop Ussher attributed: ‘Thou didst undergo burial, and rise in glory, and raise up Adam together with thee, by thy almighty hand’ to a Greek Prayer in his "Answer to a Jesuit's Challenge" of 1656

                            In the "Visitation of the Sick." In /The clergyman's companion containing the occasional offices of the Protestant Episcopal Church, with prayers suitable to be used by the clergy of the said church in the discharge of their parochial duties/ (1885) by Thomas Whittaker of New
                            York: "... let him die in peace, and rest in hope, and rise in glory through ... "

                            / /

                            /Ritualism Romanism And The English Reformation/ (Bampton Lectures of
                            1857) by William Edward Jelf attributes the words: ‘...and that such as are dead in the Lord may rest in peace and hope, and rise in glory’ to the Treasury of Devotion.

                            /The Christian doctrine of prayer for the departed/ (1875) by Frederick George Lee, Vicar of All Saints Lambeth: May he rest in peace and rise in glory

                            At Wickwar church in Glos. is a monument to Mr. John Purnell: Here lyeth a rare example of much goodness, Mr John Purnell, late of the Pool-House, in this parish, who died August the 16th, 1726, aged 46. He was a zealous member of the Church of England, a loving husband, a tender father, a kind relation, a generous friend, always acceptable to the rich, and liberal to the poor. Injury s between others he easily reconciled, his own as readily forgave. A blessed peacemaker, j He was through the whole course of his life a sincere Christian, without ostentation, and a lover of all mankind, without desire of praise.
                            Reader, go thou and do likewise, *that thou mayest rest in peace, and rise in glory*."

                            http://www.gssonline.org.uk/forum_rise_in_glory.htm

                             

                            On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 10:07 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:

                             

                            All of this discussion thus far is very interesting, but is there any liturgical authority for the added words in question?  Are they intrinsic to the liturgy of any particular denomination?  Are they contained in a particular Prayer Book or Missal or are they just something added per the preference of those who think the added words are nice/desired?

                             

                            David

                             

                            ---------------------------
                            David Lewis
                            Arlington VA USA
                            dlewisaao@...

                             

                            In a message dated 4/28/2013 9:56:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, whiteslists@... writes:



                            Sunday, April 28, 2013, 9:37:41 PM,Jim . wrote:

                            My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with my body at death, preserved and then later reunited with a new and improved resurrected body? So in that sense, the soul rises to a new being.



                            Just a theological question--if your soul is eternal, why did Jesus have to die to redeem it?

                            -- 
                            Best regards,
                             Bob White                        
                            mailto:prrmwhite@...

                            The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated 
                            by the world, not in its being convincing to it.
                            --Ignatius of Antioch
                                 

                             

                             

                          • Sean W. Reed
                            At the Particular Judgment, shortly after medical death, the soul goes to either heaven, the intermediate state, or hell. The soul gets a body back at the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 29, 2013
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                              At the Particular Judgment, shortly after medical death, the soul goes to either heaven, the intermediate state, or hell.

                              The soul gets a body back at the general resurrection.

                              Sent from my iPad

                              On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:37 PM, "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

                               

                              "I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." "
                              ....depends on one's interpretation of "soul".   I'm supposed to believe in the resurrection of the body...is not my soul part of my being? My soul is eternal, so then is it somehow disconnected with my body at death, preserved and then later reunited with a new and improved resurrected body?  So in that sense, the soul rises to a new being. A stretch, I know, but since so far, there has only been one resurrection, one can only speculate.
                               


                              Never Forget Newtown
                               

                              To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                              From: scottknitter@...
                              Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 18:49:42 -0500
                              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression

                               
                              It annoys me, in one online forum, when I post "May his/her soul and the souls of all the departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace" and instead of "Amen," someone habitually adds "And rise in glory!!!" I know they mean to join in the prayer, so I should be more patient, but it always seems like my prayer (from our BCP's Burial Office) is incomplete or inadequate somehow.

                              I've heard of a priest countering the added phrase by saying, "Souls don't rise." 


                              On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:


                              David:

                              This might help clear it up a bit....

                              http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rest+in+peace+rise+in+glory

                              Lew



                              On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


                              When using the standard phrase "may he/she/they rest in peace" the now-retired rector of my former TEC parish would add "and rise in glory." 
                               
                              Does anyone know the source of this add-on?  For example, could it be Orthodox?  Is it widely used?
                               
                              David
                               
                              ---------------------------
                              David Lewis
                              Arlington VA USA
                              dlewisaao@...








                              --
                              Scott R. Knitter
                              Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA


                            • Douglas Cowling
                              From: Sean W. Reed Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression At the Particular Judgment, shortly after medical death
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 29, 2013
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                                From: "Sean W. Reed" <anglican@...>
                                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Origin of a liturgical expression

                                At the Particular Judgment, shortly after medical death


                                Shortly?  I thought the Rex Tremendae would have better I.T. to access my file instantly.

                                Doug Cowling
                                Director of Music
                                St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                                Toronto

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