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Re: [liturgy-l] relic

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  • David J Strang
    Aside from inserting relics into the altar itself, the display of relics encased in elaborate, usually gilded reliquaries is still alive and well.  Anglican
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 27, 2013
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      Aside from inserting relics into the altar itself, the display of relics encased in elaborate, usually gilded
      reliquaries is still alive and well.  Anglican locations such as Saint Clement's Philadelphia USA routinely
      display their collection of relquaries on one of the high altar retables on high feast days.  I notice, too, that
      the local [Scranton, PA]  RC Tridentines have acquired a collection of ornate reliquaries for feast day high altar display as well.
       
       
      David Strang.

      From: "sjziobro7@..." <sjziobro7@...>
      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 11:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] relic
       
      Is the relic in what is called a thecla or relic holder, something like a pix with a glass cover, or is it simply wrapped in paper and sealed with a red sealing wax?  The latter were generally enclosed in a small receptacle embedded in an altar; the former were used for veneration of the Saint whose relic was contained therein.  In either case I don't understand why your pastor would want to install the relic in the floor of the sanctuary.  What is his raitonale for this decision?

      Stan

        

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jim . <jim.meriden@...>
      To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:31 am
      Subject: [liturgy-l] relic

       
      Good morning,
      Recently our parish pastor announced that he had received a relic of a recently canonized American saint....can't remember her name off hand.....
      He said that on May 10 he would install this relic on our altar... actually, in the floor of the sanctuary... during a vespers service.
      I was always under the impression that relics in local parish churches were installed in the alter itself.  Secondly, our altar is on a raised  "false" floor, at least 3 feet higher than the main floor of the church. Is the relic in some kind of special container? reliquary? Shouldn't it be on display? or at least in a more honored place other than in the floor?
      Could I have misunderstood what he means by the floor? 
      Finally, I thought that since Vatican II there was a de-emphasis on this kind of relic adoration....for lack of a better term.
      Thank you,Jim
    • wx5116
      The TLM that I often attend in McLean, VA, which is celebrated in a theater in the round skillfully adapted to appropriate use, includes a couple relics in
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 27, 2013
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        The TLM that I often attend in McLean, VA, which is celebrated in a "theater in the round" skillfully adapted to appropriate use, includes a couple relics in reliquaries on the altar for the Sunday celebrations.  The two of them are censed during the initial censing and the offertory.
         
        David
         
        ---------------------------
        David Lewis
        Arlington VA USA
        dlewisaao@...
         
        In a message dated 4/27/2013 10:06:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davidjstrang@... writes:


        Aside from inserting relics into the altar itself, the display of relics encased in elaborate, usually gilded
        reliquaries is still alive and well.  Anglican locations such as Saint Clement's Philadelphia USA routinely
        display their collection of relquaries on one of the high altar retables on high feast days.  I notice, too, that
        the local [Scranton, PA]  RC Tridentines have acquired a collection of ornate reliquaries for feast day high altar display as well.
         
         
        David Strang.

        From: "sjziobro7@..." <sjziobro7@...>
        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 11:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] relic
         
        Is the relic in what is called a thecla or relic holder, something like a pix with a glass cover, or is it simply wrapped in paper and sealed with a red sealing wax?  The latter were generally enclosed in a small receptacle embedded in an altar; the former were used for veneration of the Saint whose relic was contained therein.  In either case I don't understand why your pastor would want to install the relic in the floor of the sanctuary.  What is his raitonale for this decision?

        Stan

          

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jim . <jim.meriden@...>
        To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:31 am
        Subject: [liturgy-l] relic

         
        Good morning,
        Recently our parish pastor announced that he had received a relic of a recently canonized American saint....can't remember her name off hand.....
        He said that on May 10 he would install this relic on our altar... actually, in the floor of the sanctuary... during a vespers service.
        I was always under the impression that relics in local parish churches were installed in the alter itself.  Secondly, our altar is on a raised  "false" floor, at least 3 feet higher than the main floor of the church. Is the relic in some kind of special container? reliquary? Shouldn't it be on display? or at least in a more honored place other than in the floor?
        Could I have misunderstood what he means by the floor? 
        Finally, I thought that since Vatican II there was a de-emphasis on this kind of relic adoration....for lack of a better term.
        Thank you, Jim
      • Jim .
        He hasn t explained why he is putting it in the floor. I believe the high alter (pre Vat-II) has a relic in it, but the post-Vat-II table does not have a
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 27, 2013
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          He hasn't explained why he is putting it in the floor. I believe the high alter (pre Vat-II) has a relic in it, but the post-Vat-II table does not have a relic.  At the moment I do not know what knd of container the relic is in.
          I'm sure on the night of the installation we'll understand a little bett.
           
          As for his explaining his rationalization...he hasn't ...probably won't. He'll rely on rubrics, as he does with everything else....the GIRM seems to have grown roots into his left hand.
           




          Never Forget Newtown
           

          To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
          From: sjziobro7@...
          Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:44:30 -0400
          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] relic

           
          Is the relic in what is called a thecla or relic holder, something like a pix with a glass cover, or is it simply wrapped in paper and sealed with a red sealing wax?  The latter were generally enclosed in a small receptacle embedded in an altar; the former were used for veneration of the Saint whose relic was contained therein.  In either case I don't understand why your pastor would want to install the relic in the floor of the sanctuary.  What is his raitonale for this decision?

          Stan

            

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jim . <jim.meriden@...>
          To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, Apr 26, 2013 8:31 am
          Subject: [liturgy-l] relic

           
          Good morning,
          Recently our parish pastor announced that he had received a relic of a recently canonized American saint....can't remember her name off hand.....
          He said that on May 10 he would install this relic on our altar... actually, in the floor of the sanctuary... during a vespers service.
          I was always under the impression that relics in local parish churches were installed in the alter itself.  Secondly, our altar is on a raised  "false" floor, at least 3 feet higher than the main floor of the church. Is the relic in some kind of special container? reliquary? Shouldn't it be on display? or at least in a more honored place other than in the floor?
          Could I have misunderstood what he means by the floor? 
          Finally, I thought that since Vatican II there was a de-emphasis on this kind of relic adoration....for lack of a better term.


          Thank you,
          Jim


        • Douglas Cowling
          From: Jim . Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] relic He hasn t explained why he is putting it in the floor. Perhaps he s creating a
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 27, 2013
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            From: "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...>
            Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] relic

            He hasn't explained why he is putting it in the floor.


            Perhaps he's creating a 'confessio' with steps down to a crypt …

            Sounds very odd.

            Doug Cowling
            Director of Music
            St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
            Toronto

          • Lewis Whitaker
            It s really not that unusual to put relics beneath an altar. Most relics consisting of entire bodies of saints are frequently found beneath an altar. Pius IX
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 27, 2013
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              It's really not that unusual to put relics beneath an altar. Most relics consisting of entire bodies of saints are frequently found beneath an altar.

              Pius IX and John XXIII are both beneath altars, as are St. Catherine Laboure', Mother Cabrini and St. Margaret Mary Alacoque.

              I'm assuming this is NOT an entire body, though. It would seem more fitting for this to be in a place where it could be venerated by the faithful.




              On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:


              From: "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...>
              Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] relic

              He hasn't explained why he is putting it in the floor.


              Perhaps he's creating a 'confessio' with steps down to a crypt …

              Sounds very odd.

              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              Toronto




            • Jim .
              there s no space for a crypt....it s a place between the raised floor that the high altar sits on and the original floor of the church....maybe a space about 3
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 28, 2013
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                there's no space for a crypt....it's a place between the raised floor that the high altar sits on and the original floor of the church....maybe a space about 3 feet deep.....wish I could describe it better. .... when the church was renovated after Vatican II, the entire sanctuary was raised and made larger. There are four steps going up from main aisle to the sanctuary area. Somewhere in that raised area, in the space between the original floor and the raised floor, is where the relic is going.  

                Well, I guess we'll all find out on May 10

                Never Forget Newtown
                 

                To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                From: cowling.douglas@...
                Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:41:07 -0400
                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] relic

                 
                From: "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...>
                Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] relic

                He hasn't explained why he is putting it in the floor.


                Perhaps he's creating a 'confessio' with steps down to a crypt …

                Sounds very odd.

                Doug Cowling
                Director of Music
                St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                Toronto


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