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Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!

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  • David J Strang
    I wonder whether the Pope s preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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      I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
      Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
       
       
      David Strang.

      From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
      To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
       
      I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

      On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

      > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
      > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
      >
      > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
      > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
      > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
      > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
      > thread!
      >
      > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
      > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
      > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
      >
      > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
      >
      > Doug Cowling
      > Director of Music
      > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      > Toronto
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Lewis Whitaker
      Why would the Anglicans care what the Pope wears?
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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        Why would the Anglicans care what the Pope wears?


        On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:54 AM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


        I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
        Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
         
         
        David Strang.

        From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
        To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
         
        I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

        On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

        > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
        > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
        >
        > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
        > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
        > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
        > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
        > thread!
        >
        > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
        > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
        > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
        >
        > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
        >
        > Doug Cowling
        > Director of Music
        > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
        > Toronto
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >



      • Daniel Lawson
        Given how much we Anglicans have been posting about the new Pope, I d say we clearly do care… what that means is another question. -- Daniel Lawson ... Given
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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          Given how much we Anglicans have been posting about the new Pope, I'd say we clearly do care… what that means is another question. 

          --
          Daniel Lawson


          On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

          Why would the Anglicans care what the Pope wears?


          On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:54 AM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


          I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
          Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
           
           
          David Strang.

          From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
          To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
           
          I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

          On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

          > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
          > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
          >
          > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
          > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
          > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
          > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
          > thread!
          >
          > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
          > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
          > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
          >
          > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
          >
          > Doug Cowling
          > Director of Music
          > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
          > Toronto
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



        • Scott Knitter
          I really thought this thread s subject line referred to the Pope s staff: the people who assist him. I assumed Francis had cleaned house in the Curia and
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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            I really thought this thread's subject line referred to the Pope's staff: the people who assist him. I assumed Francis had "cleaned house" in the Curia and staffed it with the same people who served under Paul VI, which might be possible only if Paul VI had had a very young staff of people.

            But never mind. :)


            On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 2:54 AM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


            I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
            Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
             
             
            David Strang.

            From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
            To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
             
            I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

            On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

            > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
            > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
            >
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
            >
            > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
            > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
            > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
            > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
            > thread!
            >
            > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
            > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
            > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
            >
            > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
            >
            > Doug Cowling
            > Director of Music
            > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
            > Toronto
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >





            --
            Scott R. Knitter
            Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
          • John Schultz
            Is that the staff in the back? John
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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              Is that the staff in the back?

              John


              On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Scott Knitter <scottknitter@...> wrote:
               

              I really thought this thread's subject line referred to the Pope's staff: the people who assist him. I assumed Francis had "cleaned house" in the Curia and staffed it with the same people who served under Paul VI, which might be possible only if Paul VI had had a very young staff of people.

              But never mind. :)


              On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 2:54 AM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


              I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
              Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
               
               
              David Strang.

              From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
              To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
               
              I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

              On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

              > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
              > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
              >
              > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
              >
              > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
              > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
              > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
              > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
              > thread!
              >
              > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
              > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
              > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
              >
              > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
              >
              > Doug Cowling
              > Director of Music
              > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              > Toronto
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >





              --
              Scott R. Knitter
              Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA


            • Lewis Whitaker
              ...point taken! But I don t think Anglicans make sartorial decisions based on what the pope is wearing! ... ...point taken! But I don t think Anglicans make
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                ...point taken!

                But I don't think Anglicans make sartorial decisions based on what the pope is wearing!




                On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Daniel Lawson <k95dl01@...> wrote:

                Given how much we Anglicans have been posting about the new Pope, I'd say we clearly do care… what that means is another question. 

                --
                Daniel Lawson


                On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

                Why would the Anglicans care what the Pope wears?


                On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:54 AM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


                I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
                Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
                 
                 
                David Strang.

                From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
                To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
                 
                I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

                On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

                > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
                > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
                >
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
                >
                > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
                > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
                > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
                > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
                > thread!
                >
                > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
                > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
                > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
                >
                > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
                >
                > Doug Cowling
                > Director of Music
                > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                > Toronto
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >



              • Sandford MacLean
                In one sense, Anglicans do care about what is being worn in the Roman Catholic Church. When Rome abolished the wearing of maniples by the sacred ministers,
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                  In one sense, Anglicans do care about what is being worn in the Roman Catholic Church.  When Rome abolished the wearing of maniples by the sacred ministers, many Anglicans followed suit.  Birettas, too.  Not all Anglicans followed Rome’s lead, of course.
                   
                  In Christ,
                  Sandford MacLean
                   
                  Sent: Friday, 19 April, 2013 09:57
                  Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
                   
                   

                  ...point taken!
                   
                  But I don't think Anglicans make sartorial decisions based on what the pope is wearing!

                   
                   

                  On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Daniel Lawson <k95dl01@...> wrote:

                  Given how much we Anglicans have been posting about the new Pope, I'd say we clearly do care… what that means is another question.

                  --
                  Daniel Lawson
                   

                  On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

                  Why would the Anglicans care what the Pope wears?


                  On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:54 AM, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:


                  I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
                  Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
                   
                   
                  David Strang.
                   
                  From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
                  To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
                  Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
                   
                  I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

                  On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

                  > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
                  > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
                  >
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
                  >
                  > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
                  > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
                  > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
                  > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
                  > thread!
                  >
                  > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
                  > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
                  > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
                  >
                  > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
                  >
                  > Doug Cowling
                  > Director of Music
                  > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                  > Toronto
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >


                   
                • Douglas Cowling
                  From: Scott Knitter Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI s staff is back! I really thought this thread s subject line referred to the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                    From: Scott Knitter <scottknitter@...>>
                    Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!

                    I really thought this thread's subject line referred to the Pope's staff: the people who assist him. 

                    I suppose we should use the technical liturgical terms on this list. The Bishop of Rome doesn't carry a crozier, but the subject line now sounds like proctological problem.

                    Doug Cowling
                    Director of Music
                    St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                    Toronto


                  • Douglas Cowling
                    From: David J Strang Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI s staff is back! I wonder whether the Pope s preference for simple, unadorned
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                      From: David J Strang <davidjstrang@...>
                      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!

                      I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
                      Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
                       
                      Amen, brother!  I was astonished to see the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's wearing black copes for the Thatcher funeral.  Except in the most rigorist of anglo-catholic parishes, white for a liturgy of the Resurrection is almost normative among Anglicans.

                      Rome sneezes and Canterbury coughs.

                      What's that in Latin?


                    • Scott Knitter
                      On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Douglas Cowling ... Our most recent funeral was a Mass of the Resurrection, but a black-vestments Requiem is also an option.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                        On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                        Amen, brother!  I was astonished to see the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's wearing black copes for the Thatcher funeral.  Except in the most rigorist of anglo-catholic parishes, white for a liturgy of the Resurrection is almost normative among Anglicans.

                        Our most recent funeral was a Mass of the Resurrection, but a black-vestments Requiem is also an option. No Dies Irae, though, in the Requiems I've served in. I think it might have to be specially insisted on.

                        With regard to maniples, I've been chided on the Ship of Fools Ecclesiantics board for wearing a maniple when I serve as a subdeacon (if a maniple is part of the set being worn that Sunday). "You're a layman! You should refuse the maniple!" But my approach is not to argue with the sacristan: if he puts out a maniple, I wear a maniple. The interim rector, though, has opted not to have maniples laid out nor worn by anyone. We do wear birettas much more often, though.


                        --
                        Scott R. Knitter
                        Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                      • wx5116
                        In recent decades there has been a revival of fiddleback chasubles in Anglo-Catholic circles, particularly in the UK. However, the vestments that I ve seen the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                          In recent decades there has been a revival of fiddleback chasubles in Anglo-Catholic circles, particularly in the UK. 
                           
                          However, the vestments that I've seen the new ABC wearing have been more on the clown costume side.
                           
                          David
                           
                          ---------------------------
                          David Lewis
                          Arlington VA USA
                          dlewisaao@...
                           
                          In a message dated 4/19/2013 3:54:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, davidjstrang@... writes:


                          I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
                          Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
                           
                           
                          David Strang.

                          From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
                          To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:08 PM
                          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!
                           
                          I guess this means the deal with SSPX is probably off.

                          On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Douglas Cowling <mailto:cowling.douglas%40gmail.com> wrote:

                          > Here is the link for the footage of the pope "taking possession" (such an
                          > unfortunate term) of his cathedral church, St. John Lateran:
                          >
                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOP5sP1gVes
                          >
                          > The pope's liturgical procession can be seen at 28:00, and he has
                          > abandoned Pius XI's cross-staff for the modern staff of Paul VI. Also note
                          > that the vestments of all the ministers of the altar are severely simple:
                          > plain white gothic style with solid colour orphreys. Not a stitch of gold
                          > thread!
                          >
                          > No wonder the traditionalist blogs have gone silent. This is an
                          > extraordinary statement that papal liturgy will now look like parish
                          > liturgy not a fresco of Raphael. Pack up the cappae magnae.
                          >
                          > The only thing I miss is that the pope doesn't sing at all.
                          >
                          > Doug Cowling
                          > Director of Music
                          > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                          > Toronto
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: mailto:liturgy-l-owner%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • wx5116
                          Actually, the rules in the Catholic Church provide that a priest who desires to wear black vestments for a funeral Mass may not be refused same. And I m not
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                            Actually, the rules in the Catholic Church provide that a priest who desires to wear black vestments for a funeral Mass may not be refused same.  And I'm not talking about the Extraordinary Rite, where such would be the rule, but in Novus Ordo.
                             
                            ---------------------------
                            David Lewis
                            Arlington VA USA
                            dlewisaao@...
                             
                            In a message dated 4/19/2013 10:31:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cowling.douglas@... writes:


                            From: David J Strang <davidjstrang@...>
                            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!

                            I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
                            Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
                             
                            Amen, brother!  I was astonished to see the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's wearing black copes for the Thatcher funeral.  Except in the most rigorist of anglo-catholic parishes, white for a liturgy of the Resurrection is almost normative among Anglicans.

                            Rome sneezes and Canterbury coughs.

                            What's that in Latin?


                          • Scott Knitter
                            ... FWIW, Google Translate gives us: Sternutatio Romam, et tussientibus Cant. On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Douglas Cowling ... -- Scott R. Knitter
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 19, 2013
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                              Doug asks:
                              >What's that [Rome sneezes and Canterbury coughs] in Latin?

                              FWIW, Google Translate gives us:

                              Sternutatio Romam, et tussientibus Cant.


                              On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:


                              From: David J Strang <davidjstrang@...>
                              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Paul VI's staff is back!

                              I wonder whether the Pope's preference for simple, unadorned vestments will filter down to
                              Canterbury?  Most Anglican vestments I see look more like those of Benedict XVI than Francis I.
                               
                              Amen, brother!  I was astonished to see the Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's wearing black copes for the Thatcher funeral.  Except in the most rigorist of anglo-catholic parishes, white for a liturgy of the Resurrection is almost normative among Anglicans.

                              Rome sneezes and Canterbury coughs.

                              What's that in Latin?







                              --
                              Scott R. Knitter
                              Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
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