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Re: Getting to the bottom of Liturgical Reform

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  • James
    They never want to talk about the girls with bowls of insence or the giant puppets. I wonder why! rdr. James
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 11, 2013
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      They never want to talk about the girls with 'bowls of insence' or the giant puppets. I wonder why!

      rdr. James

      --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Sean Reed <anglican@...> wrote:
      >
      > Nice spin Doug.
      >
      >
      > SWR
      >
      > On Apr 11, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Douglas Cowling wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > From: "Sean W. Reed" <anglican@...>
      > > Subject: [liturgy-l] Getting to the bottom of Liturgical Reform
      > >
      > > These disputes are often caused by reading into the Council's Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy later ideas or enthusiasms, of differing merit, which are simply not there. For example, Mass facing the people, having the entire liturgy in the vernacular, communion in the hand, the introduction of altar girls and of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are commonplace now, but have nothing to do with the Council itself.
      > >
      > >
      > > Are we really still debating with such misogynistic epithets as "altar girls" or creating liturgical strawmen as if the Modernist "crisis" was upon us? Please.
      > >
      > > We need to be accurate here about the mechanism of reform. The Pope and Council delegated the implementation of its decrees to conciliar commissions which in fact had begun to work after the First Session and whose interpretations — including most of the "abuses" listed above -- had begun to be implemented before the conclusion of the Council itself. It is impossible to draw a theological or juridical division between the Council and its post-conciliar commissions: they are the teachings of the ordinary magesterium confirmed by the papal primacy. The conciliar decrees cannot be divorced from their implementations so as to reverse their intentions.
      > >
      > > Doug Cowling
      > > Director of Music
      > > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      > > Toronto
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Simon Kershaw
      ... Not spin Sean. Just pointing out the reality of where the Church actually is! And where much of the wider Church has been for several hundred years,
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 14, 2013
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        On 12/04/2013 03.35, Sean Reed wrote:
        > Nice spin Doug.

        Not spin Sean. Just pointing out the reality of where the Church
        actually is! And where much of the wider Church has been for several
        hundred years, especially with regard to vernacular in the liturgy. And
        indeed where the early Church was, where a vernacular liturgy was taken
        for granted.

        simon

        --
        Simon Kershaw
        simon@...
        Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
      • Sean W. Reed
        Yes, it is spin - the point is: ...These disputes are often caused by reading into the Council s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy later ideas or
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 14, 2013
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          Yes, it is spin - the point is:

          "...These disputes are often caused by reading into the Council's Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy later ideas or enthusiasms, of differing merit, which are simply not there..."

          Sent from my iPad

          On Apr 14, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Simon Kershaw <simon@...> wrote:

          > On 12/04/2013 03.35, Sean Reed wrote:
          >> Nice spin Doug.
          >
          > Not spin Sean. Just pointing out the reality of where the Church
          > actually is! And where much of the wider Church has been for several
          > hundred years, especially with regard to vernacular in the liturgy. And
          > indeed where the early Church was, where a vernacular liturgy was taken
          > for granted.
          >
          > simon
          >
          > --
          > Simon Kershaw
          > simon@...
          > Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
          >
          >
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