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Re: [liturgy-l] Papal Maundy Thursday & Good Friday

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  • Ian Gomersall
    I thought that Pope Francis act in washing and kissing a Muslim woman s feet was a wonderfully inclusive sign of service. See:
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013
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      I thought that Pope Francis act in washing and kissing a Muslim woman's feet was a wonderfully inclusive sign of service.

      Ian


      On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
       

      "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
      explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
      make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
      washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
      case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
      up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
      girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
      communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
      include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)

      Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
      Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
      implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.

      But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
      place against the wall on Good Friday.




      --

      Ian Gomersall

      Have a look at our church blog: www.stchrysostoms.wordpress.com

    • Lewis Whitaker
      The Old ROMAN Catholic Church (not to be confused with the Old Catholic Church) is LIVID that the new pope is choosing not to live in the Apostolic Palace, and
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013
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        The Old ROMAN Catholic Church (not to be confused with the Old Catholic Church) is LIVID that the new pope is choosing not to live in the Apostolic Palace, and that he "deprived the church" of the Maundy Thursday Liturgy. It's fun to watch. 

        Lew



        On Mar 29, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Ian Gomersall <ian.gomersall@...> wrote:

        I thought that Pope Francis act in washing and kissing a Muslim woman's feet was a wonderfully inclusive sign of service.

        Ian


        On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
         

        "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
        explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
        make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
        washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
        case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
        up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
        girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
        communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
        include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)

        Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
        Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
        implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.

        But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
        place against the wall on Good Friday.




        --

        Ian Gomersall

        Have a look at our church blog: www.stchrysostoms.wordpress.com

      • Ian Gomersall
        Have you a link for that, Lew? Ian Fr Ian Gomersall Sent from my mobile device - so please forgive any typos. ... Have you a link for that, Lew? Ian Fr Ian
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013
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          Have you a link for that, Lew?

          Ian


          Fr Ian Gomersall

          Sent from my mobile device - so please forgive any typos.

          On 29 Mar 2013, at 22:40, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

           

          The Old ROMAN Catholic Church (not to be confused with the Old Catholic Church) is LIVID that the new pope is choosing not to live in the Apostolic Palace, and that he "deprived the church" of the Maundy Thursday Liturgy. It's fun to watch. 

          Lew



          On Mar 29, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Ian Gomersall <ian.gomersall@...> wrote:

          I thought that Pope Francis act in washing and kissing a Muslim woman's feet was a wonderfully inclusive sign of service.

          Ian


          On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
           

          "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
          explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
          make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
          washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
          case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
          up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
          girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
          communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
          include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)

          Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
          Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
          implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.

          But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
          place against the wall on Good Friday.




          --

          Ian Gomersall

          Have a look at our church blog: www.stchrysostoms.wordpress.com

        • Lewis Whitaker
          It was the ORCC on Facebook. ... It was the ORCC on Facebook. On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Ian Gomersall wrote: Have you a link for
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013
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            It was the ORCC on Facebook. 




            On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Ian Gomersall <ian.gomersall@...> wrote:

            Have you a link for that, Lew?

            Ian


            Fr Ian Gomersall

            Sent from my mobile device - so please forgive any typos.

            On 29 Mar 2013, at 22:40, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

             

            The Old ROMAN Catholic Church (not to be confused with the Old Catholic Church) is LIVID that the new pope is choosing not to live in the Apostolic Palace, and that he "deprived the church" of the Maundy Thursday Liturgy. It's fun to watch. 

            Lew



            On Mar 29, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Ian Gomersall <ian.gomersall@...> wrote:

            I thought that Pope Francis act in washing and kissing a Muslim woman's feet was a wonderfully inclusive sign of service.

            Ian


            On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
             

            "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
            explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
            make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
            washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
            case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
            up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
            girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
            communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
            include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)

            Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
            Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
            implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.

            But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
            place against the wall on Good Friday.




            --

            Ian Gomersall

            Have a look at our church blog: www.stchrysostoms.wordpress.com

          • wx5116
            But if he had elected to do this liturgy in, say, a convent, ... David ... David Lewis Arlington VA USA dlewisaao@aol.com In a message dated 3/29/2013 6:18:10
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013
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              But if he had elected to do this liturgy in, say, a convent, ...
               
              David
               
              ---------------------------
              David Lewis
              Arlington VA USA
              dlewisaao@...
               
              In a message dated 3/29/2013 6:18:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cowling.douglas@... writes:
              "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
              explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
              make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
              washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
              case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
              up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
              girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
              communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
              include refined experts in liturgical rules."  (La Stampa)


              Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
              Janus-like spin in the future.  The extraordinista blogs are already
              implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.

              But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
              place against the wall on Good Friday.




              ------------------------------------

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            • Lewis Whitaker
              That s just crazy talk! ... That s just crazy talk! On Mar 29, 2013, at 9:10 PM, dlewisaao@aol.com wrote: But if he had elected to do this liturgy in, say, a
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 29, 2013
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                That's just crazy talk!




                On Mar 29, 2013, at 9:10 PM, dlewisaao@... wrote:

                But if he had elected to do this liturgy in, say, a convent, ...
                 
                David
                 
                ---------------------------
                David Lewis
                Arlington VA USA
                dlewisaao@...
                 
                In a message dated 3/29/2013 6:18:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cowling.douglas@... writes:
                "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
                explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
                make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
                washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
                case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                include refined experts in liturgical rules."  (La Stampa)


                Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
                Janus-like spin in the future.  The extraordinista blogs are already
                implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.

                But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
                place against the wall on Good Friday.




                ------------------------------------

                Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                <*> To change settings online go to:
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              • James
                Well, if the Lord Himself allowed a woman to wash HIS feet with her tears, and dry them with her hair, what s a Pope to do? Rdr. James Morgan
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 30, 2013
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                  Well, if the Lord Himself allowed a woman to wash HIS feet with her tears, and dry them with her hair, what's a Pope to do?

                  Rdr. James Morgan

                  --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
                  > explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
                  > make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
                  > washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
                  > case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                  > up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                  > girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                  > communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                  > include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)
                  >
                  >
                  > Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
                  > Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
                  > implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.
                  >
                  > But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
                  > place against the wall on Good Friday.
                  >
                • James
                  Being a Muslim, the girl could have opted out! But she did not. Says something... Rdr. James
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 30, 2013
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                    Being a Muslim, the girl could have opted out! But she did not. Says something...

                    Rdr. James

                    --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Ian Gomersall <ian.gomersall@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I thought that Pope Francis act in washing and kissing a Muslim woman's
                    > feet was a wonderfully inclusive sign of service.
                    > See: http://stchrysostoms.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/inclusive-footwashing/
                    >
                    > Ian
                    >
                    >
                  • Kevin Riley
                    Better ?? Kevin ... Better ?? Kevin On 31/03/2013 8:32 AM, James wrote: Well, if the Lord Himself allowed a woman to wash HIS feet with her tears, and dry them
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 30, 2013
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                      Better ??

                      Kevin

                      On 31/03/2013 8:32 AM, James wrote:
                       

                      Well, if the Lord Himself allowed a woman to wash HIS feet with her tears, and dry them with her hair, what's a Pope to do?

                      Rdr. James Morgan

                      --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
                      > explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
                      > make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
                      > washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
                      > case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                      > up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                      > girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                      > communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                      > include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)
                      >
                      >
                      > Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
                      > Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
                      > implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.
                      >
                      > But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
                      > place against the wall on Good Friday.
                      >

                      No virus found in this message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 2013.0.3267 / Virus Database: 3161/6214 - Release Date: 03/30/13


                    • Douglas Cowling
                      ... I worry for the girl s safety. Doug Cowling Director of Music St. Philip s Church, Etobicoke Toronto
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 30, 2013
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                        On 3/30/13 5:34 PM, "James" <rdrjames@...> wrote:

                        >Being a Muslim, the girl could have opted out! But she did not. Says
                        >something..


                        I worry for the girl's safety.

                        Doug Cowling
                        Director of Music
                        St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                        Toronto
                      • Jim .
                        But in the ... To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com From: klriley100@tpg.com.au Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 09:03:19 +1100 Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Papal Maundy
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 31, 2013
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                          " But in the
                          > case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                          > up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                          > girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                          > communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                          > include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)"
                           
                          .....frankly, I find that statement stupid. Why should this institution be unique? It would be just as "inopportune" to exclude women in my unique parish, which is populated by an overwhelming number of women. The same Message of Love must be communicated equally, to all..regardless of their sex, or the "refinement" of their liturgical expertise.
                           
                          I think that the Pope's message went out loud and  clear, on all levels.
                           
                           
                           

                          To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                          From: klriley100@...
                          Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 09:03:19 +1100
                          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Papal Maundy Thursday & Good Friday

                           
                          Better ??

                          Kevin

                          On 31/03/2013 8:32 AM, James wrote:
                           

                          Well, if the Lord Himself allowed a woman to wash HIS feet with her tears, and dry them with her hair, what's a Pope to do?

                          Rdr. James Morgan

                          --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
                          > explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
                          > make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
                          > washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
                          > case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                          > up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                          > girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                          > communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                          > include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)
                          >
                          >
                          > Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
                          > Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
                          > implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.
                          >
                          > But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
                          > place against the wall on Good Friday.
                          >


                          No virus found in this message.
                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          Version: 2013.0.3267 / Virus Database: 3161/6214 - Release Date: 03/30/13



                        • Lewis Whitaker
                          Jim: Exactly. VERY well said, and I agree with you about the Pope s message. ... Jim: Exactly. VERY well said, and I agree with you about the Pope s message.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 31, 2013
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                            Jim:

                            Exactly. VERY well said, and I agree with you about the Pope's message. 




                            On Mar 31, 2013, at 9:27 AM, "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

                            " But in the
                            > case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                            > up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                            > girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                            > communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                            > include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)"
                             
                            .....frankly, I find that statement stupid. Why should this institution be unique? It would be just as "inopportune" to exclude women in my unique parish, which is populated by an overwhelming number of women. The same Message of Love must be communicated equally, to all..regardless of their sex, or the "refinement" of their liturgical expertise.
                             
                            I think that the Pope's message went out loud and  clear, on all levels.
                             
                             
                             

                            To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                            From: klriley100@...
                            Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 09:03:19 +1100
                            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Papal Maundy Thursday & Good Friday

                             
                            Better ??

                            Kevin

                            On 31/03/2013 8:32 AM, James wrote:
                             

                            Well, if the Lord Himself allowed a woman to wash HIS feet with her tears, and dry them with her hair, what's a Pope to do?

                            Rdr. James Morgan

                            --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > "Speaking to Associated Press, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi
                            > explained that ³in a "grand solemn celebration" of the rite, it would
                            > make sense to only involve men because during the Last Supper, Christ
                            > washed the feet of the 12 apostles, all of whom were male. But in the
                            > case of Casal del Marmo ³the rite was for a small, unique community made
                            > up also of women. It was a specific situation in which excluding the
                            > girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of
                            > communicating a message of love to all in a group that certainly didn't
                            > include refined experts in liturgical rules." (La Stampa)
                            >
                            >
                            > Poor Lombardi ... He's going to have a lot more opportunities for such
                            > Janus-like spin in the future. The extraordinista blogs are already
                            > implying that the pope violated canon law by washing the feet of women.
                            >
                            > But they should be pleased that Marini's novel baroque throne was back in
                            > place against the wall on Good Friday.
                            >


                            No virus found in this message.
                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            Version: 2013.0.3267 / Virus Database: 3161/6214 - Release Date: 03/30/13



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