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Re: [liturgy-l] Quote from Bp. Gregory Venables on ACNS re: Pope Francis (was...

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  • Lewis Whitaker
    .... but no hard numbers. I see. Lew ... .... but no hard numbers. I see. Lew On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:29 PM, wrote: Msgr Steenson
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 15, 2013
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      .... but no hard numbers. I see.


      On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:29 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:

      Msgr Steenson happens to be my Ordinary, and I am aware that he is very well connected in the Church.  And I am personally aware of the congregations coming into the Ordinariate, the latest being another in the Baltimore area from a few weeks ago.
      And I am also very well aware that various Anglicans inside and outside the AC, with the particular impetus coming from the TAC/ACA perhaps five years ago, had been knocking at the door of the Holy See to work out a stronger means than the Pastoral Provision and related.  The TAC/ACA, as I recall from the time, was interested in being received more or less as a uniate equivalent.  The response of the Holy See, which made very good sense, was to set up the Personal Ordinariates into which various Anglican congregations could affiliate and form.
      David Lewis
      Arlington VA USA
      In a message dated 3/15/2013 8:52:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lhwhitaker@... writes:

      Again, Steenson has NOTHING to go on here, other than his hopes and desires.

      I thought the narrative was that the POPE offered this, rather than "the Anglican world" requested it. But whatever the case may be, if it is created by an apostolic constitution, it can be done away with by an apostolic constitution.... or else it can be ignored and allowed to die a natural death.

      Do you have any numbers on how this is a "growing Evangelical venture?"


      On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:05 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:

      Yes, the Ordinariates are a growing Evangelical venture, actually set up per requests from the Anglican world, so I rather suspect that the new pope will be quite supportive.
      David Lewis
      Arlington VA USA
      In a message dated 3/15/2013 6:47:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lhwhitaker@... writes:

      Bishop Venables' comment is reduced to "an anecdotal report from an Anglican bishop in Argentina?" Ouch! Way to throw a fellow under the bus, Monsignor!

      Evidently people are concerned. There is little here that really amounts to much substance, beyond Steenson casting his own hopes and desires onto the new pope. I seriously doubt, amongst checking out of hotels, paying bills and visiting the basilicas that this issue has crossed the Holy Father's mind. 


      On Mar 15, 2013, at 6:20 PM, dlewisaao@... wrote:

      Here is what the Ordinary of the (US/Canadian) Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter has to say about all of this:

      A Note from Monsignor Steenson on Recent News Reports
      March 15, 2013

      My dear people,

      We have received a number of inquiries from those who are concerned about what our new Pope’s attitude may be toward the Ordinariates, occasioned by an anecdotal report from an Anglican bishop in Argentina. It is important to remember that our Ordinariates were created by an apostolic constitution, thereby giving them real permanence and stability. But it is even more important to remember what it means to be Catholic, to have the full assurance that faith brings. Christ the Good Shepherd entrusted the governance of the Church to St. Peter and his successors. To be in communion with Peter brings a confidence we never knew as Anglicans. Pope Francis understands the pilgrim character of our communities and will be a wise and caring pastor to us!

      Msgr. Jeffrey Steenson

      David Lewis
      Arlington VA USA
      In a message dated 3/15/2013 6:06:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, botarij@... writes:

      Actually, the most interesting thing about Pope Francis that I've seen in recent days was this article that appeared on the Anglican Communion News Service just after his election -- an interview with Anglican Bishop Gregory Venables (formerly Primate of the Southern Cone, and now Diocesan Bishop of Argentina and North Argentina).  He and Cardinal Begoglio are apparently good friends.

      I found the following passage particularly surprising:
      <quoting Bp. Venables>
      "I have been with him on many occasions and he always makes me sit next to him and invariably makes me take part and often do what he as Cardinal should have done. He is consistently humble and wise, outstandingly gifted yet a common man. He is no fool and speaks out very quietly yet clearly when necessary."

      Bp Venables added that in a conversation with Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, the latter made it clear that he values the place of Anglicans in the Church universal.

      "He called me to have breakfast with him one morning and told me very clearly that the Ordinariate was quite unnecessary and that the Church needs us as Anglicans."


      Any thoughts on this?  It certainly seems to indicate a different opinion on Anglicanism from that expressed by the previous Pontiff.  I may have missed something, but I don't recall having seen anything about this on the list to date.


      John Botari

      Saskatoon, Saskatchewan


      On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:

      Evidently papal MC Marini, the architect of Benedict's "restoration" of older papal dress and vestments, was not pleased that Pope Francis appeared on the balcony clad only in the white cassock, having refused the red mozetta (bye bye ermine of the winter mozetta) and donning the stole only for the blessing,  He also wore only white cassock on his visit yesterday to Santa Maria Maggiore, a shrewd move that will endear him to the Romans. 

      When I first saw the picture I thought he was in the Gesu, the Jesuit church. Now that would have been a message!  I was astonished to hear one commentator suggest that the name "Francis" was a crypto-Jesuitical move to refer to Francis Xavier, the Jesuit saint. Hardly a plot. During his speech just after his election, John XXIII specifically said that the name referred to both the Baptist and the Evangelist. There's no reason why Francis may have not done the same with the advocate of the poor in Assisi and the evangeliser in the Third World.  Do we know if Francis made a speech as he accepted election?

      In the mass in the Sistine Chapel, the portable altar was back (Benedict had started celebrating eastward in the Sistine), but the Benedictine Cage was still there and he was carrying the Pius X cross staff.  Call me a Protestant, but I can't bear the sight of what looks like a gold processional cross being used like the walking-staff of a crozier.

      So some personal liturgical choices in the first 24 hours that may presage a rolling-back of some of the Baroque innovations of Benedict. Perhaps we should assemble a liturgical check-list for the inauguration.  Some items on my "Reading the Papal Liturgy Scorecard":

      * Use of the simple white chair of Paul VI rather than the Pius X throne

      * Return of the Paul VI cross-staff

      * Return of the folded-stole Eastern style of the pallium rather than the medieval yoke forms

      * Full cut chasubles and dalmatics rather than fiddle-back and tabard styles

      * Return of John Paul II "evangelist" mitre rather than the Pius X Precious Mitre.

      * Standing to receive the "homage" of the cardinals

      * Reduced visibility of the Swiss Guard

      Any other check points?

      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke

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