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Sing of the cross in Orthodoxy

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  • djp4law
    After visiting an ORC congregation for vespers Saturday,  a friend asked why some people made the doing of the cross and then stooped to touch the floor --
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013

      After visiting an ORC congregation for vespers Saturday,  a friend asked why some people made the doing of the cross and then stooped to touch the floor -- not every time they 
      made the sign and not every one who made the sign.  Can someone explain that?  (One friend insists out has a profound reason behind it, but she doesn't know what that is. )
      Thanks. 
      Dwight Penas

      From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



      -------- Original message --------
      From: Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...>
      Date:
      To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [liturgy-l] Tenebrae


       

      From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>


      The "earthquake" at the end of Tenebrae was originally the knock of the superior on his/her stall to indicate the end of the office: I think some Benedictine houses still have the custom. Gradually the sound of the closing of the monastic breviaries took on a symbolic meaning. I remember seeing a dramatization of the early life of John Paul II which showed the end of Tenebrae in a Polish abbey where all the clerics began to bang their breviaries on their stalls creating an "earthquake" effect.

      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      Toronto

    • Scott Knitter
      There s some background on this here: http://www.roca.org/OA/151/151b.htm I think it is a modified form of prostration.
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013
        There's some background on this here:


        I think it is a modified form of prostration.

        On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:30 AM, djp4law <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:



        After visiting an ORC congregation for vespers Saturday,  a friend asked why some people made the doing of the cross and then stooped to touch the floor -- not every time they 
        made the sign and not every one who made the sign.  Can someone explain that?  (One friend insists out has a profound reason behind it, but she doesn't know what that is. )
        Thanks. 
        Dwight Penas

        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



        -------- Original message --------
        From: Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...>
        Date:
        To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [liturgy-l] Tenebrae


         

        From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>


        The "earthquake" at the end of Tenebrae was originally the knock of the superior on his/her stall to indicate the end of the office: I think some Benedictine houses still have the custom. Gradually the sound of the closing of the monastic breviaries took on a symbolic meaning. I remember seeing a dramatization of the early life of John Paul II which showed the end of Tenebrae in a Polish abbey where all the clerics began to bang their breviaries on their stalls creating an "earthquake" effect.

        Doug Cowling
        Director of Music
        St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
        Toronto




      • Lewis Whitaker
        Dwight: It s more of a profound bow than a touching of the floor. The floor touching is secondary, and really more of a practicality. One is supposed to bow as
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013
          Dwight:

          It's more of a profound bow than a touching of the floor. The floor touching is secondary, and really more of a practicality. One is supposed to bow as deeply as possible, deep enough that one could touch the floor with the right hand. Reaching down also allows one to keep from tipping over :)

          Lew

          On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:30 AM, djp4law <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:



          After visiting an ORC congregation for vespers Saturday,  a friend asked why some people made the doing of the cross and then stooped to touch the floor -- not every time they 
          made the sign and not every one who made the sign.  Can someone explain that?  (One friend insists out has a profound reason behind it, but she doesn't know what that is. )
          Thanks. 
          Dwight Penas

          From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



          -------- Original message --------
          From: Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...>
          Date:
          To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [liturgy-l] Tenebrae


           

          From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>


          The "earthquake" at the end of Tenebrae was originally the knock of the superior on his/her stall to indicate the end of the office: I think some Benedictine houses still have the custom. Gradually the sound of the closing of the monastic breviaries took on a symbolic meaning. I remember seeing a dramatization of the early life of John Paul II which showed the end of Tenebrae in a Polish abbey where all the clerics began to bang their breviaries on their stalls creating an "earthquake" effect.

          Doug Cowling
          Director of Music
          St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
          Toronto




        • Scott Knitter
          Sounds similar to the monastic practice of bowing low enough at the Gloria Patri (after psalms) to put one s hands on one s knees. A way to achieve a uniform
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013
            Sounds similar to the monastic practice of bowing low enough at the
            Gloria Patri (after psalms) to put one's hands on one's knees. A way
            to achieve a uniform or at least minimum depth of bow.

            On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Dwight:
            >
            > It's more of a profound bow than a touching of the floor. The floor touching is secondary, and really more of a practicality. One is supposed to bow as deeply as possible, deep enough that one could touch the floor with the right hand. Reaching down also allows one to keep from tipping over :)
          • Lewis Whitaker
            Scott: Exactly! L
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013
              Scott:

              Exactly!

              L

              On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...> wrote:
              Sounds similar to the monastic practice of bowing low enough at the
              Gloria Patri (after psalms) to put one's hands on one's knees. A way
              to achieve a uniform or at least minimum depth of bow.

              On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Dwight:
              >
              > It's more of a profound bow than a touching of the floor. The floor touching is secondary, and really more of a practicality. One is supposed to bow as deeply as possible, deep enough that one could touch the floor with the right hand. Reaching down also allows one to keep from tipping over :)


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            • djp4law
              Yes, friends, that is as I suspected.  I ve spent time with monastic communities and have from your used to profound bows. I figured that tthis might be
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013
                Yes, friends, that is as I suspected.  I've spent time with monastic communities and have from your used to profound bows. I figured that tthis might be similar. 
                Thanks. 
                And I apologize for the misspellings: I'm still trying to get used to "swipe" technology in my new phone.  I have to watch for autofill even more sharply. 
                Dwight



                From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



                -------- Original message --------
                From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
                Date:
                To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Sing of the cross in Orthodoxy


                 

                Scott:

                Exactly!

                L

                On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...> wrote:
                Sounds similar to the monastic practice of bowing low enough at the
                Gloria Patri (after psalms) to put one's hands on one's knees. A way
                to achieve a uniform or at least minimum depth of bow.

                On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Dwight:
                >
                > It's more of a profound bow than a touching of the floor. The floor touching is secondary, and really more of a practicality. One is supposed to bow as deeply as possible, deep enough that one could touch the floor with the right hand. Reaching down also allows one to keep from tipping over :)


                ------------------------------------

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              • Scott Knitter
                I like Swype. It learns the words you use most, so when it chooses wrongly and you tap the word, the word you really need will likely be right there in the
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013
                  I like Swype. It "learns" the words you use most, so when it chooses wrongly and you tap the word, the word you really need will likely be right there in the list. I'm getting faster and better at it. Do need to keep an eagle eye on the autocorrect, as you mentioned.

                  On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:31 AM, djp4law <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:


                  Yes, friends, that is as I suspected.  I've spent time with monastic communities and have from your used to profound bows. I figured that tthis might be similar. 
                  Thanks. 
                  And I apologize for the misspellings: I'm still trying to get used to "swipe" technology in my new phone.  I have to watch for autofill even more sharply. 
                  Dwight



                  From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



                  -------- Original message --------
                  From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
                  Date:
                  To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Sing of the cross in Orthodoxy


                   

                  Scott:

                  Exactly!

                  L

                  On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...> wrote:
                  Sounds similar to the monastic practice of bowing low enough at the
                  Gloria Patri (after psalms) to put one's hands on one's knees. A way
                  to achieve a uniform or at least minimum depth of bow.

                  On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dwight:
                  >
                  > It's more of a profound bow than a touching of the floor. The floor touching is secondary, and really more of a practicality. One is supposed to bow as deeply as possible, deep enough that one could touch the floor with the right hand. Reaching down also allows one to keep from tipping over :)


                  ------------------------------------

                  Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

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                • Daniel Lawson
                  ... And sometimes it s a timely reminder of things we need to hear, despite what we intended to write. All of us, not just the orthodox, should indeed sing of
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 11, 2013

                    On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...> wrote:



                    I like Swype. It "learns" the words you use most, so when it chooses wrongly and you tap the word, the word you really need will likely be right there in the list. I'm getting faster and better at it. Do need to keep an eagle eye on the autocorrect, as you mentioned.

                    And sometimes it's a timely reminder of things we need to hear, despite what we intended to write. All of us, not just the orthodox, should indeed sing of the cross.

                    Daniel

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