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RE: [liturgy-l] The ending of a pontificate

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  • Jim .
    One suspects that when the time comes, B-16 will be buried with full honors, mainly because most of the red and purple hats still alive even then will have
    Message 1 of 31 , Feb 28, 2013

      One suspects that when the time comes, B-16 will be buried with full honors, mainly because most of the red and purple hats still alive even then will have been appointed by JP2 or B16, so they'll want to give their patrone a big send off.


      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      From: lhwhitaker@...
      Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:58:43 -0500
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The ending of a pontificate

       
      There are all sorts of "new ground" that will be covered in the years ahead.

      Ironically, Pope Benedict XVI, the most "Conservative" pope since Pius XII is doing the most novel or "Liberal" thing possible -- he's quitting! Yes, yes, I know there are provisions for it, but, as we've been told numerous times, it hasn't happened since Celestine V.

      I'll be interested to see if the impending funeral of Benedict XVI will be carried out with full papal honors, or if he'll be buried as a bishop or cardinal? Will the new (reigning) pope bury the "Pope Emeritus?"

      We're in uncharted waters. It should be fun to see how things shake out.

      Lew



      On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:


      From: Frank Senn <fcsenn@...>
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The ending of a pontificate

      The man definitely enjoyed dressing up.  Maybe those baroque chasubles can now be returned to the Vatican sacristy museum.


      If we're "reading" the liturgy of the new pope, I think the key signal will be whether he uses Paul's cross-staff at his inauguration.  Even Benedict used it for the first six months before he appeared with the Pius X cross. It may have become a "tradition' that a new pope uses it first.

      It would be quite a liturgical moment if Benedict placed the pallium on the new pope and gave him the staff before exchanging the Peace and concelebrating with his successor. 

      This is quite common now among Anglicans. Do Catholics ever have this kind of "hand-off" ceremonial?

      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      Toronto





    • John Dornheim
      Thank you. I bite my tongue over much of this discussion and would prefer that we stick to things liturgical. We all have other outlets to share our personal
      Message 31 of 31 , Feb 28, 2013
        Thank you. I bite my tongue over much of this discussion and would prefer that we stick to things liturgical. We all have other outlets to share our personal feelings. 
        John Dornheim

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Feb 28, 2013, at 2:30 PM, "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

         


        "...we are in a age in which the church is misunderstood and as a consequence the object of irrational speculations about motivations and in which much of the secular press simply has an ax out for the church, particularly in it Roman Catholic manifestations."

        My poor attitude stems from recent disillusionments.  Something definitely off-topic for this list, so I won't go there.


        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        From: whiteslists@...
        Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:09:52 -0500
        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The ending of a pontificate

         
        Thursday, February 28, 2013, 12:22:03 PM,Jim . wrote:


        One suspects that when the time comes, B-16 will be buried with full honors, mainly because most of the red and purple hats still alive even then will have been appointed by JP2 or B16, so they'll want to give their patrone a big send off. 


        This is not directly a response to Jim's comments, and as tangentially relevant to "liturgy" as most of the rest of this thread:

        It seems to me (a Lutheran serving as Interim Rector in an Episcopalian Parish) that if we did not notice it before, we are in a age in which the church is misunderstood and as a consequence the object of irrational speculations about motivations and in which much of the secular press simply has an ax out for the church, particularly in it Roman Catholic manifestations.

        Yes churches are human institutions; yes the churches' leaders err.

        I heard part of an interview this morning between a BBC correspondent, a female Catholic from somewhere in Africa, and Fr. Thomas Reese, Jesuit. 

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p014t2kf

        On almost every question, the first response was to correct the interviews question--example, doesn't the church's stance on birth control hurt growth in Africa? From the woman: not Africans respect life; From Fr Reese, 98% of American Catholics ignore the Church's teaching. The interviewer: Pope Benedict really hasn't dismissed priests for instances of sexual misconduct: Fr. Reese--he may have been slow to start but over the last few years he has responded quick and dismissed hundred of priests. Interviewer: Isn't Benedict leaving a church in crisis? No, he has rebuilt trust, and confidence.

        Perhaps it is in part from the Lutheran side of things that I (we) have some continuing regard from this Pope. Had it not be for Cardinal Ratzinger, it is far less likely that a decade or so ago the Vatican would have signed on the the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification that set aside the mutual condemnations of the Reformation era and moved our two churches into agreement that one basics we are in more agreement than not.


        -- 
        Best regards,
         Bob White                        
        mailto:prrmwhite@...

        The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated 
        by the world, not in its being convincing to it.
        --Ignatius of Antioch
             

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