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Re: [liturgy-l] The Papacy as Separate Order

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  • Sean W. Reed
    Christ gave his Church the authority to forgive AND retain sins. Sent from my iPad
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 23, 2013
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      Christ gave his Church the authority to forgive AND retain sins.

      Sent from my iPad

      On Feb 23, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Daniel Lawson <k95dl01@...> wrote:

       



      On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

      I wish there was a liturgical rite still in use that declared a notorious sinner anathema, like in the movies. I have a few archbishops that I would nominate. It could be done with the large candles that are thrown down. 



      Without discussing particular cases, why do you think such a rite would be a good thing? Didn't Christ give us the ministry of reconciliation, not condemnation?

      In any event, oughtn't we encourage the condemnation of notorious *sin* not notorious *sinners*?

      Peace,
      Daniel

    • Jim .
      NY TIMES: In most ways, the practical impact of Archbishop Gomez’s rebuke is minimal — while Cardinal Mahony has canceled presiding at confirmations
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 23, 2013
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        "NY TIMES: "In most ways, the practical impact of Archbishop Gomez’s rebuke is minimal — while Cardinal Mahony has canceled presiding at confirmations this year, he is still a priest in good standing with the church. He can still celebrate Mass and is still eligible to vote for a pope." .."

         ....of course he is still a priest in good standing.....an arch-bishop cannot discipline a cardinal....only a pope (and the prosecutor of the City and County of Los Angeles)  can do that. Abp Gomez's action is totally useless. And Gomez just ruined his chance to wear a red hat.

        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        From: cowling.douglas@...
        Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:32:49 -0500
        Subject: [liturgy-l] The Papacy as Separate Order

         
        NY TIMES:  "In most ways, the practical impact of Archbishop Gomez’s rebuke is minimal — while Cardinal Mahony has canceled presiding at confirmations this year, he is still a priest in good standing with the church. He can still celebrate Mass and is still eligible to vote for a pope."     

        It's remarkable that even after 50 years, it's as if the Second Vatican Council never decided that the episcopate was a separate sacramental order and not just the priesthood dressed up with administrative functions conceded by the pope. So too the commentary coming out of both the right and the left that the papacy is somehow a separate sacramental order which is different from the episcopate. One blogger went so far to suggest that Benedict was "defrocking" himself and would be just a priest when he retires.  Ironic that at a time when American bishops are acting in the most absolutist manner, the episcopal order is still so imperfectly understood. 

        Doug Cowling
        Director of Music
        St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
        Toronto


      • Lewis Whitaker
        The pope won t, of course. We can hope the DA will. ... The pope won t, of course. We can hope the DA will. On Feb 23, 2013, at 8:21 PM, Jim .
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 23, 2013
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          The pope won't, of course. We can hope the DA will. 




          On Feb 23, 2013, at 8:21 PM, "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

          "NY TIMES: "In most ways, the practical impact of Archbishop Gomez’s rebuke is minimal — while Cardinal Mahony has canceled presiding at confirmations this year, he is still a priest in good standing with the church. He can still celebrate Mass and is still eligible to vote for a pope." .."

           ....of course he is still a priest in good standing.....an arch-bishop cannot discipline a cardinal....only a pope (and the prosecutor of the City and County of Los Angeles)  can do that. Abp Gomez's action is totally useless. And Gomez just ruined his chance to wear a red hat.

          To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
          From: cowling.douglas@...
          Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:32:49 -0500
          Subject: [liturgy-l] The Papacy as Separate Order

           
          NY TIMES:  "In most ways, the practical impact of Archbishop Gomez’s rebuke is minimal — while Cardinal Mahony has canceled presiding at confirmations this year, he is still a priest in good standing with the church. He can still celebrate Mass and is still eligible to vote for a pope."     

          It's remarkable that even after 50 years, it's as if the Second Vatican Council never decided that the episcopate was a separate sacramental order and not just the priesthood dressed up with administrative functions conceded by the pope. So too the commentary coming out of both the right and the left that the papacy is somehow a separate sacramental order which is different from the episcopate. One blogger went so far to suggest that Benedict was "defrocking" himself and would be just a priest when he retires.  Ironic that at a time when American bishops are acting in the most absolutist manner, the episcopal order is still so imperfectly understood. 

          Doug Cowling
          Director of Music
          St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
          Toronto


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