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Re: [liturgy-l] Papal liturgicae

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  • Lewis Whitaker
    Haven t they already? On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Douglas Cowling
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 11, 2013
      Haven't they already?

      On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
       
      Of course, if the far right doesn't like
      the new popes, they will declare him an antipope.


      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
      Toronto





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    • dawuk2001
      The argument I saw for abdication was that you could only resign if you had someone higher to whom you could submit a resignation. Therefore it was an
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 12, 2013
        The argument I saw for "abdication" was that you could only resign if you had someone higher to whom you could submit a resignation. Therefore it was an abdication because there was no higher ecclesial authority to whom he could submit the resignation. Unless, I suppose he could resign to God?!

        Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

        From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
        Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 21:54:37 -0600
        To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Papal liturgicae

         

        I'm seeing the Pope's action being described as an "abdication" in
        some blog headlines. Seems to me an abdication is where one declines,
        or decides not to continue in, an inherited role such as that of a
        monarch, not a stepping down from an elected position under laws that
        lay out a legitimate resignation process. Maybe I'm splitting hairs.
        Abdication to me connotes a rather disruptive (even if obviously
        necessary) giving up of one's birthright as a royal. Anyway, resigning
        is what the pope is doing. Giving his two weeks' notice, even! Should
        the Swiss guards have given him an hour to box up items from his desk
        and then be out the door? He could be scanning top-secret documents to
        take with him!

        On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Scott Knitter scott.knitter@...> wrote:
        > I seem to recall Pope Benedict saying, perhaps in his first homily as
        > pope, that he expected his papacy to be a relatively short one on
        > account of his age. He may also have described his papacy as a bridge
        > to the next generation or some such thing. I can't find his words but
        > remember that point from them.

      • Sean W. Reed
        In English Canon Law uses the term Resignation, and the Holy Father used the word renounce. The Latin text of the Code of Canon Law reflects: ...§ 2. Si
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 12, 2013
          In English Canon Law uses the term Resignation, and the Holy Father used the word renounce.

          The Latin text of the Code of Canon Law reflects:

          "...§ 2. Si contingat ut Romanus Pontifex muneri suo renuntiet, ad validitatem requiritur ut renuntiatio libere fiat et rite manifestetur, non vero ut a quopiam acceptetur...."


          It doesn't seem abdication is the term.


          SWR






          Sent from my iPad

          On Feb 12, 2013, at 4:58 AM, d.a.waller@... wrote:

           

          The argument I saw for "abdication" was that you could only resign if you had someone higher to whom you could submit a resignation. Therefore it was an abdication because there was no higher ecclesial authority to whom he could submit the resignation. Unless, I suppose he could resign to God?!

          Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

          From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
          Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 21:54:37 -0600
          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Papal liturgicae

           

          I'm seeing the Pope's action being described as an "abdication" in
          some blog headlines. Seems to me an abdication is where one declines,
          or decides not to continue in, an inherited role such as that of a
          monarch, not a stepping down from an elected position under laws that
          lay out a legitimate resignation process. Maybe I'm splitting hairs.
          Abdication to me connotes a rather disruptive (even if obviously
          necessary) giving up of one's birthright as a royal. Anyway, resigning
          is what the pope is doing. Giving his two weeks' notice, even! Should
          the Swiss guards have given him an hour to box up items from his desk
          and then be out the door? He could be scanning top-secret documents to
          take with him!

          On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Scott Knitter scott.knitter@...> wrote:
          > I seem to recall Pope Benedict saying, perhaps in his first homily as
          > pope, that he expected his papacy to be a relatively short one on
          > account of his age. He may also have described his papacy as a bridge
          > to the next generation or some such thing. I can't find his words but
          > remember that point from them.

        • Lewis Whitaker
          Somehow renounce seems harsher. ... Somehow renounce seems harsher. On Feb 12, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Sean W. Reed wrote: In English Canon
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 12, 2013
            Somehow renounce seems harsher. 




            On Feb 12, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "Sean W. Reed" <anglican@...> wrote:

            In English Canon Law uses the term Resignation, and the Holy Father used the word renounce.

            The Latin text of the Code of Canon Law reflects:

            "...§ 2. Si contingat ut Romanus Pontifex muneri suo renuntiet, ad validitatem requiritur ut renuntiatio libere fiat et rite manifestetur, non vero ut a quopiam acceptetur...."


            It doesn't seem abdication is the term.


            SWR






            Sent from my iPad

            On Feb 12, 2013, at 4:58 AM, d.a.waller@... wrote:

             

            The argument I saw for "abdication" was that you could only resign if you had someone higher to whom you could submit a resignation. Therefore it was an abdication because there was no higher ecclesial authority to whom he could submit the resignation. Unless, I suppose he could resign to God?!

            Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

            From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
            Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 21:54:37 -0600
            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Papal liturgicae

             

            I'm seeing the Pope's action being described as an "abdication" in
            some blog headlines. Seems to me an abdication is where one declines,
            or decides not to continue in, an inherited role such as that of a
            monarch, not a stepping down from an elected position under laws that
            lay out a legitimate resignation process. Maybe I'm splitting hairs.
            Abdication to me connotes a rather disruptive (even if obviously
            necessary) giving up of one's birthright as a royal. Anyway, resigning
            is what the pope is doing. Giving his two weeks' notice, even! Should
            the Swiss guards have given him an hour to box up items from his desk
            and then be out the door? He could be scanning top-secret documents to
            take with him!

            On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Scott Knitter scott.knitter@...> wrote:
            > I seem to recall Pope Benedict saying, perhaps in his first homily as
            > pope, that he expected his papacy to be a relatively short one on
            > account of his age. He may also have described his papacy as a bridge
            > to the next generation or some such thing. I can't find his words but
            > remember that point from them.

          • Dwight
            I thought Mahoney wasn t supposed to speak out publicly on any church-related matter. Such a renegade. Peace Dwight Penas Minneapolis
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 12, 2013
              I thought Mahoney wasn't supposed to speak out publicly on any church-related matter. Such a renegade.


              Peace
              Dwight Penas
              Minneapolis
              ____________________________
              "Anyone who thinks that he has understood the divine scriptures or any part of them, but cannot by his understanding build up this double love of God and neighbor, has not yet succeeded in understanding them." -- Augustine


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
              To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Mon, Feb 11, 2013 2:52 pm
              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Papal liturgicae

               
              I find the timing of this to be very strange. I can't figure out why he would want to set a date for retirement, and call for a conclave, within Lent, unless there is more to the story than we know.

              Mahoney is an elector, despite being relieved of his duties in Los Angeles. He's made a statement about looking forward to the election.

              http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/los-angeles-cardinal-mahony-elect-pope-18466880



              On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:


              Has there been any speculation about when the new pope will be installed/inaugurated/crowned?  If they want him in place by Holy Week, as all the commentators are saying, that really only leaves, ironically, the feast of St. Joseph on the 19th, the Annunciation being bumped to after Easter this year. Unless of course an Irish cardinal is elected and the Tiber turns green on the 17th.

              I wonder if the new pope will invite the old to invest him with the pallium?

              Is Cardinal Mahony an elector?

              And of course what will happen to Marini and the new style of ceremonial/  I say watch to see if the new pope lays aside the Pius X gold papal cross and takes up the Paul modern staff again.

              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              Toronto




            • Lewis Whitaker
              If there s a camera, he ll speak.
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 12, 2013
                If there's a camera, he'll speak.

                On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Dwight <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:


                I thought Mahoney wasn't supposed to speak out publicly on any church-related matter. Such a renegade.


                Peace
                Dwight Penas
                Minneapolis
                ____________________________
                "Anyone who thinks that he has understood the divine scriptures or any part of them, but cannot by his understanding build up this double love of God and neighbor, has not yet succeeded in understanding them." -- Augustine


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
                To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, Feb 11, 2013 2:52 pm
                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Papal liturgicae

                 
                I find the timing of this to be very strange. I can't figure out why he would want to set a date for retirement, and call for a conclave, within Lent, unless there is more to the story than we know.

                Mahoney is an elector, despite being relieved of his duties in Los Angeles. He's made a statement about looking forward to the election.

                http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/los-angeles-cardinal-mahony-elect-pope-18466880



                On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:


                Has there been any speculation about when the new pope will be installed/inaugurated/crowned?  If they want him in place by Holy Week, as all the commentators are saying, that really only leaves, ironically, the feast of St. Joseph on the 19th, the Annunciation being bumped to after Easter this year. Unless of course an Irish cardinal is elected and the Tiber turns green on the 17th.

                I wonder if the new pope will invite the old to invest him with the pallium?

                Is Cardinal Mahony an elector?

                And of course what will happen to Marini and the new style of ceremonial/  I say watch to see if the new pope lays aside the Pius X gold papal cross and takes up the Paul modern staff again.

                Doug Cowling
                Director of Music
                St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                Toronto







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