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Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

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  • Lewis Whitaker
    ... A light to enlighten the Gentiles. ... ... A light to enlighten the Gentiles. On Feb 2, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Jim . wrote: I
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 2, 2013
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      "... A light to enlighten the Gentiles."




      On Feb 2, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Jim ." <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

      I would like to know how the blessing of candles inter-mixed with the presentation of the first-born Jesus in the Temple? 
      How do candles relate to this?

       

      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      From: dlewisaao@...
      Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 21:26:07 -0500
      Subject: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

       

      Here's a posting from St Matthew Cathedral (RC) in DC that may add to the discussion on this topic:
       
      Saturday, February 2 is the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord, a joyful event told in the second chapter of the Gospel of Luke. “Led by the Spirit, Simeon and Anna came to the temple, recognized Christ as their Lord, and proclaimed him with joy.” On this feast celebrating Christ, the light to the nations, enough candles are blessed to last the whole year. At St. Matthew’s, candles will be blessed at the 8am Mass with words that remind us that Jesus’ presentation fulfilled the law of Moses and at the same time signified his going out to meet his faithful people. Let us be like Simeon and Anna, recognizing Christ’s presence and carrying His light to every corner of our lives!
       
      David
       
      ---------------------------
      David Lewis
      dlewisaao@...

    • Frank Senn
      Because of Simeon’s song, the Nunc dimittis, in the Gospel reading, which proclaimed Jesus as “a light to the nations” and “the glory of your people
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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        Because of Simeon’s song, the Nunc dimittis, in the Gospel reading, which proclaimed Jesus as “a light to the nations” and “the glory of your people Israel,” it has been customary to hold a candlelight procession and to bless the church’s supply of candles.  Hence, the feast has also been known as Candlemas.

        Frank C. Senn



        --- On Sat, 2/2/13, Jim . <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

        From: Jim . <jim.meriden@...>
        Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?
        To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013, 4:36 PM

         

        I would like to know how the blessing of candles inter-mixed with the presentation of the first-born Jesus in the Temple? 
        How do candles relate to this?

         

        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        From: dlewisaao@...
        Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 21:26:07 -0500
        Subject: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

         

        Here's a posting from St Matthew Cathedral (RC) in DC that may add to the discussion on this topic:
         
        Saturday, February 2 is the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord, a joyful event told in the second chapter of the Gospel of Luke. “Led by the Spirit, Simeon and Anna came to the temple, recognized Christ as their Lord, and proclaimed him with joy.” On this feast celebrating Christ, the light to the nations, enough candles are blessed to last the whole year. At St. Matthew’s, candles will be blessed at the 8am Mass with words that remind us that Jesus’ presentation fulfilled the law of Moses and at the same time signified his going out to meet his faithful people. Let us be like Simeon and Anna, recognizing Christ’s presence and carrying His light to every corner of our lives!
         
        David
         
        ---------------------------
        David Lewis
        dlewisaao@...

      • Dwight
        When are the candles carried in procession extinguished? We at Mount Olive can t quite get this rightl. Peace Dwight Penas Minneapolis
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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          When are the candles carried in procession extinguished? We at Mount Olive can't quite get this rightl.


          Peace
          Dwight Penas
          Minneapolis
          ____________________________
          As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Frank Senn <fcsenn@...>
          To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 2:50 pm
          Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

           
          Because of Simeon’s song, the Nunc dimittis, in the Gospel reading, which proclaimed Jesus as “a light to the nations” and “the glory of your people Israel,” it has been customary to hold a candlelight procession and to bless the church’s supply of candles.  Hence, the feast has also been known as Candlemas.
          Frank C. Senn


          --- On Sat, 2/2/13, Jim . <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

          From: Jim . <jim.meriden@...>
          Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?
          To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013, 4:36 PM

           
          I would like to know how the blessing of candles inter-mixed with the presentation of the first-born Jesus in the Temple? 
          How do candles relate to this?

           

          To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
          From: dlewisaao@...
          Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 21:26:07 -0500
          Subject: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

           

          Here's a posting from St Matthew Cathedral (RC) in DC that may add to the discussion on this topic:
           
          Saturday, February 2 is the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord, a joyful event told in the second chapter of the Gospel of Luke. “Led by the Spirit, Simeon and Anna came to the temple, recognized Christ as their Lord, and proclaimed him with joy.” On this feast celebrating Christ, the light to the nations, enough candles are blessed to last the whole year. At St. Matthew’s, candles will be blessed at the 8am Mass with words that remind us that Jesus’ presentation fulfilled the law of Moses and at the same time signified his going out to meet his faithful people. Let us be like Simeon and Anna, recognizing Christ’s presence and carrying His light to every corner of our lives!
           
          David
           
          ---------------------------
          David Lewis
          dlewisaao@...

        • Sean W. Reed
          After the Gospel. Sent from my iPad ... After the Gospel. Sent from my iPad On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Dwight wrote: Wh en are the candles
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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            After the Gospel.

            Sent from my iPad

            On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Dwight <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:

             

            When are the candles carried in procession extinguished? We at Mount Olive can't quite get this rightl.



            Peace
            Dwight Penas
            Minneapolis
            ____________________________
            As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Frank Senn <fcsenn@...>
            To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 2:50 pm
            Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

             
            Because of Simeon’s song, the Nunc dimittis, in the Gospel reading, which proclaimed Jesus as “a light to the nations” and “the glory of your people Israel,” it has been customary to hold a candlelight procession and to bless the church’s supply of candles.  Hence, the feast has also been known as Candlemas.
            Frank C. Senn


            --- On Sat, 2/2/13, Jim . <jim.meriden@...> wrote:

            From: Jim . <jim.meriden@...>
            Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?
            To: "liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com" <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013, 4:36 PM

             
            I would like to know how the blessing of candles inter-mixed with the presentation of the first-born Jesus in the Temple? 
            How do candles relate to this?

             

            To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
            From: dlewisaao@...
            Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 21:26:07 -0500
            Subject: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

             

            Here's a posting from St Matthew Cathedral (RC) in DC that may add to the discussion on this topic:
             
            Saturday, February 2 is the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord, a joyful event told in the second chapter of the Gospel of Luke. “Led by the Spirit, Simeon and Anna came to the temple, recognized Christ as their Lord, and proclaimed him with joy.” On this feast celebrating Christ, the light to the nations, enough candles are blessed to last the whole year. At St. Matthew’s, candles will be blessed at the 8am Mass with words that remind us that Jesus’ presentation fulfilled the law of Moses and at the same time signified his going out to meet his faithful people. Let us be like Simeon and Anna, recognizing Christ’s presence and carrying His light to every corner of our lives!
             
            David
             
            ---------------------------
            David Lewis
            dlewisaao@...

          • Douglas Cowling
            From: Sean W. Reed Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year? After the Gospel. Candles are lit three
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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              From: "Sean W. Reed" <anglican@...>

              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

              After the Gospel.


              Candles are lit three times:

              1) Before the procession, extinguished before the Introit begins.

              2) During the alleluia, extinguished after the Gospel.

              3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.

              And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.

              "Take two candles and call me in the morning."

              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              Toronto





            • Scott Knitter
              On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling ... We extinguished after the Lord s Prayer. ... We combined these today, observing the external solemnity,
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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                On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling
                <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:

                > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.

                We extinguished after the Lord's Prayer.

                > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing
                > of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.

                We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                there's no such term in Anglican sources.
              • Douglas Cowling
                ... Both?!!! Gasp! WHO devised that hair-brained and utterly untraditional idea! Quick, a cold maniple for my fevered brow! Doug Cowling Director of Music
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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                  On 2/3/13 7:36 PM, "Scott Knitter" <scott.knitter@...> wrote:

                  >We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                  >there's no such term in Anglican sources.

                  Both?!!! Gasp!

                  WHO devised that hair-brained and utterly untraditional idea!

                  Quick, a cold maniple for my fevered brow!

                  Doug Cowling
                  Director of Music
                  St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                  Toronto
                • wx5116
                  Does #3 really work, given what people are doing during that space of time? David ... David Lewis dlewisaao@aol.com In a message dated 2/3/2013 7:16:40 P.M.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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                    Does #3 really work, given what people are doing during that space of time?
                     
                    David
                     
                    ---------------------------
                    David Lewis
                    dlewisaao@...
                     
                    In a message dated 2/3/2013 7:16:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cowling.douglas@... writes:


                    From: "Sean W. Reed" <anglican@...>

                    Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?

                    After the Gospel.


                    Candles are lit three times:

                    1) Before the procession, extinguished before the Introit begins.

                    2) During the alleluia, extinguished after the Gospel.

                    3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.

                    And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.

                    "Take two candles and call me in the morning."

                    Doug Cowling
                    Director of Music
                    St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                    Toronto





                  • Douglas Cowling
                    From: Reply-To: Liturgy-Well-Done Date: Sunday, February 3, 2013 8:06 PM To: Liturgy-Well-Done
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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                      Reply-To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Sunday, February 3, 2013 8:06 PM
                      To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing

                      Does #3 really work, given what people are doing during that space of time?


                      Well, they certainly shouldn't be receiving the Sacrament!
                      Doug Cowling
                      Director of Music
                      St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                      Toronto

                    • dawuk2001
                      It isn t a solemnity so how can you keep an external solemnity? Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device ... From: Scott Knitter
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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                        It isn't a solemnity so how can you keep an external solemnity?
                        Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

                        From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
                        Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:36:15 -0600
                        To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                        ReplyTo: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing

                         

                        On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling
                        cowling.douglas@...> wrote:

                        > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.

                        We extinguished after the Lord's Prayer.

                        > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing
                        > of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.

                        We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                        there's no such term in Anglican sources.

                      • James
                        Just make sure the crossed candles on the throat are NOT lit! Like one priest I knew....he almost set ladies hair on fire!! Rdr. James
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                          Just make sure the crossed candles on the throat are NOT lit! Like one priest I knew....he almost set ladies' hair on fire!!

                          Rdr. James

                          --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling wrote:
                          >
                          > From: "Sean W. Reed"
                          >
                          > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?
                          >
                          >
                          > After the Gospel.
                          >
                          >
                          > Candles are lit three times:
                          >
                          > 1) Before the procession, extinguished before the Introit begins.
                          >
                          > 2) During the alleluia, extinguished after the Gospel.
                          >
                          > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.
                          >
                          > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing of
                          > Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.
                          >
                          > "Take two candles and call me in the morning."
                          >
                          > Doug Cowling
                          > Director of Music
                          > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                          > Toronto
                          >
                        • Scott Knitter
                          Not to mention hot wax down the neck. =|8^O
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                            Not to mention hot wax down the neck. =|8^O

                            On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 7:15 PM, James <rdrjames@...> wrote:
                            > Just make sure the crossed candles on the throat are NOT lit! Like one priest I knew....he almost set ladies' hair on fire!!
                          • James
                            Ah! another use for the maniple, for those who have foregone the real use of such! thanks, Doug! Rdr. james PS we easterners don t have them, only cuffs...
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                              Ah! another use for the maniple, for those who have foregone the real use of such!

                              thanks, Doug!

                              Rdr. james
                              PS we easterners don't have them, only cuffs...

                              --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling wrote:
                              >
                              > On 2/3/13 7:36 PM, "Scott Knitter" wrote:
                              >
                              > >We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                              > >there's no such term in Anglican sources.
                              >
                              > Both?!!! Gasp!
                              >
                              > WHO devised that hair-brained and utterly untraditional idea!
                              >
                              > Quick, a cold maniple for my fevered brow!
                              >
                              > Doug Cowling
                              > Director of Music
                              > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                              > Toronto
                              >
                            • wx5116
                              My throat was blessed yesterday by unlit candles - have heard that the (arguably) ideal way would be to light them but ... David ... David Lewis
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                My throat was blessed yesterday by unlit candles - have heard that the (arguably) ideal way would be to light them but ...
                                 
                                David
                                 
                                ---------------------------
                                David Lewis
                                dlewisaao@...
                                 
                                In a message dated 2/4/2013 8:15:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rdrjames@... writes:
                                Just make sure the crossed candles on the throat are NOT lit! Like one priest I knew....he almost set ladies' hair on fire!!

                                Rdr. James

                                --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling  wrote:
                                >
                                > From:  "Sean W. Reed"
                                >
                                > Subject:  Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: blessing candles for the whole year?
                                >

                                > After the Gospel.
                                >
                                >
                                > Candles are lit three times:
                                >
                                > 1) Before the procession, extinguished before the Introit begins.
                                >
                                > 2) During the alleluia, extinguished after the Gospel.
                                >
                                > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.
                                >
                                > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing of
                                > Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.
                                >
                                > "Take two candles and call me in the morning."
                                >
                                > Doug Cowling
                                > Director of Music
                                > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                                > Toronto
                                >




                                ------------------------------------

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                              • James
                                Picky, picky you! How does one differentiate between an external and and internal solemnity? or even an eternal one? Rdr. james
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                                  Picky, picky you! How does one differentiate between an 'external' and and 'internal' solemnity? or even an 'eternal' one?

                                  Rdr. james

                                  --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, d.a.waller@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > It isn't a solemnity so how can you keep an external solemnity?
                                  >
                                  > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Scott Knitter
                                  > Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:36:15
                                  > To:
                                  > Reply-To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing
                                  >
                                  > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.
                                  >
                                  > We extinguished after the Lord's Prayer.
                                  >
                                  > > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the Blessing
                                  > > of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.
                                  >
                                  > We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                                  > there's no such term in Anglican sources.
                                  >
                                • Scott Knitter
                                  I agree with you, but I think it s because we re transferring the solemnity of the feast to another day, if that makes any sense. Solemnity in a generic
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                                    I agree with you, but I think it's because we're "transferring the
                                    solemnity" of the feast to another day, if that makes any sense.
                                    Solemnity in a generic sense, not as the specific Roman Catholic term
                                    for the highest-ranked sort of feast.

                                    Personally, I'd prefer sticking with terms the BCP uses.

                                    Interesting that the Presentation is one of the "Other Feasts of Our
                                    Lord" that join the seven Principal Feasts in taking precedence of a
                                    Sunday and over all other days of commemoration or special observance.
                                    (BCP 1979, p. 16) So in effect, The Holy Name, The Presentation, and
                                    The Transfiguration are equal to Christmas, Easter, Trinity,
                                    Pentecost, All Saints, Ascension, and Epiphany: they all take
                                    precedence of a Sunday and they all have an Eve (First Evensong in the
                                    Daily Office). So I guess if someone wanted to call all those
                                    top-ranked feasts "solemnities," that would be the list.

                                    I hadn't noticed before that our BCP treats those three "Other Feasts
                                    of Our Lord" essentially the same as the Principal Feasts. The only
                                    difference is that they're listed in group 3, Holy Days, on p. 16.
                                    Perhaps they're liturgically at the same level but needn't be observed
                                    with the same degree of don't-miss urgency as the Principal Feasts
                                    (although some parishes go ahead and miss All Saints, Ascension,
                                    and/or Epiphany when they're not on a Sunday).

                                    On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 8:04 PM, <d.a.waller@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > It isn't a solemnity so how can you keep an external solemnity?
                                    > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
                                    > Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:36:15 -0600
                                    > To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > ReplyTo: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.
                                    >
                                    > We extinguished after the Lord's Prayer.
                                    >
                                    > > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the
                                    > > Blessing
                                    > > of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.
                                    >
                                    > We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                                    > there's no such term in Anglican sources.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • wx5116
                                    My impression is that in the Catholic Church this feast does not transfer anyway - it is celebrated on February 2. If it occurs on a Sunday, it would be
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                                      My impression is that in the Catholic Church this feast does not transfer anyway - it is celebrated on February 2.  If it occurs on a Sunday, it would be observed on that day, unless I am really missing something.
                                       
                                      David
                                       
                                      ---------------------------
                                      David Lewis
                                      dlewisaao@...
                                       
                                      In a message dated 2/4/2013 8:54:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, scott.knitter@... writes:
                                      I agree with you, but I think it's because we're "transferring the
                                      solemnity" of the feast to another day, if that makes any sense.
                                      Solemnity in a generic sense, not as the specific Roman Catholic term
                                      for the highest-ranked sort of feast.

                                      Personally, I'd prefer sticking with terms the BCP uses.

                                      Interesting that the Presentation is one of the "Other Feasts of Our
                                      Lord" that join the seven Principal Feasts in taking precedence of a
                                      Sunday and over all other days of commemoration or special observance.
                                      (BCP 1979, p. 16) So in effect, The Holy Name, The Presentation, and
                                      The Transfiguration are equal to Christmas, Easter, Trinity,
                                      Pentecost, All Saints, Ascension, and Epiphany: they all take
                                      precedence of a Sunday and they all have an Eve (First Evensong in the
                                      Daily Office). So I guess if someone wanted to call all those
                                      top-ranked feasts "solemnities," that would be the list.

                                      I hadn't noticed before that our BCP treats those three "Other Feasts
                                      of Our Lord" essentially the same as the Principal Feasts. The only
                                      difference is that they're listed in group 3, Holy Days, on p. 16.
                                      Perhaps they're liturgically at the same level but needn't be observed
                                      with the same degree of don't-miss urgency as the Principal Feasts
                                      (although some parishes go ahead and miss All Saints, Ascension,
                                      and/or Epiphany when they're not on a Sunday).

                                      On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 8:04 PM, <d.a.waller@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It isn't a solemnity so how can you keep an external solemnity?
                                      > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
                                      > Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:36:15 -0600
                                      > To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > ReplyTo: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.
                                      >
                                      > We extinguished after the Lord's Prayer.
                                      >
                                      > > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the
                                      > > Blessing
                                      > > of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.
                                      >
                                      > We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                                      > there's no such term in Anglican sources.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      ------------------------------------

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                                    • dawuk2001
                                      Yes, that is correct. Also, because it is a feast, it cannot be observed as an external solemnity. The RC liturgical books do provide a 1st evening prayer and
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Feb 5, 2013
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                                        Yes, that is correct. Also, because it is a feast, it cannot be observed as an external solemnity. The RC liturgical books do provide a 1st evening prayer and 3 readings for mass BUT this provision is only used when 2nd Feb falls on a Sunday.

                                        Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

                                        From: dlewisaao@...
                                        Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 22:19:37 -0500 (EST)
                                        To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                                        ReplyTo: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing

                                         

                                        My impression is that in the Catholic Church this feast does not transfer anyway - it is celebrated on February 2.  If it occurs on a Sunday, it would be observed on that day, unless I am really missing something.
                                         
                                        David
                                         
                                        ---------------------------
                                        David Lewis
                                        dlewisaao@...
                                         
                                        In a message dated 2/4/2013 8:54:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, scott.knitter@... writes:
                                        I agree with you, but I think it's because we're "transferring the
                                        solemnity" of the feast to another day, if that makes any sense.
                                        Solemnity in a generic sense, not as the specific Roman Catholic term
                                        for the highest-ranked sort of feast.

                                        Personally, I'd prefer sticking with terms the BCP uses.

                                        Interesting that the Presentation is one of the "Other Feasts of Our
                                        Lord" that join the seven Principal Feasts in taking precedence of a
                                        Sunday and over all other days of commemoration or special observance.
                                        (BCP 1979, p. 16) So in effect, The Holy Name, The Presentation, and
                                        The Transfiguration are equal to Christmas, Easter, Trinity,
                                        Pentecost, All Saints, Ascension, and Epiphany: they all take
                                        precedence of a Sunday and they all have an Eve (First Evensong in the
                                        Daily Office). So I guess if someone wanted to call all those
                                        top-ranked feasts "solemnities," that would be the list.

                                        I hadn't noticed before that our BCP treats those three "Other Feasts
                                        of Our Lord" essentially the same as the Principal Feasts. The only
                                        difference is that they're listed in group 3, Holy Days, on p. 16.
                                        Perhaps they're liturgically at the same level but needn't be observed
                                        with the same degree of don't-miss urgency as the Principal Feasts
                                        (although some parishes go ahead and miss All Saints, Ascension,
                                        and/or Epiphany when they're not on a Sunday).

                                        On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 8:04 PM, <d.a.waller@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > It isn't a solemnity so how can you keep an external solemnity?
                                        > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
                                        > Sender: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:36:15 -0600
                                        > To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > ReplyTo: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Candlemas: Lighting & Extinguishing
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Douglas Cowling
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > 3) During the Preface, extinguished after the first ablution.
                                        >
                                        > We extinguished after the Lord's Prayer.
                                        >
                                        > > And don't forget to come back on St.Blaise's Day, Feb 3, for the
                                        > > Blessing
                                        > > of Throats by two candles held like a cross to the throat.
                                        >
                                        > We combined these today, observing the "external solemnity," though
                                        > there's no such term in Anglican sources.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        ------------------------------------

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                                      • Scott Knitter
                                        And I don t think our BCP actually allows for our transfer of the feast to a Sunday. (I m not complaining; it was wonderful.)
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Feb 5, 2013
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                                          And I don't think our BCP actually allows for our transfer of the
                                          feast to a Sunday. (I'm not complaining; it was wonderful.)

                                          On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 3:32 AM, <d.a.waller@...> wrote:

                                          > Yes, that is correct. Also, because it is a feast, it cannot be observed
                                          > as an external solemnity. The RC liturgical books do provide a 1st evening
                                          > prayer and 3 readings for mass BUT this provision is only used when 2nd Feb
                                          > falls on a Sunday.
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