RE: [liturgy-l] Simultaneous Celebration
- I've seen multiple masses in cathedrals.....St. Patrick's in New York City, for example.
Been told that somtimes newly ordained priests get to have their first mass there. Other masses for other intentions going on at the same time.
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:08:36 -0600
Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Simultaneous CelebrationI haven't experienced simultaneous Masses, unless they were going on
when I was a wee Roman Catholic kid, just before the 1965 Rite
arrived. Grandma's parish did have simultaneous upstairs and
downstairs Masses on Sundays, but I've not seen multiple Masses at
adjacent altars. The idea fascinates me, not as something I wish would
come back, but as the reason for certain architectural features: the
common sight in Chicago RC churches of the high altar flanked by four
side altars; the side chapels at St. Gregory's Abbey about the size of
large closets; and especially the crypt filled with chapels below the
Abbey Church at St. John's Abbey, Collegeville.
When I see the "wall-o-celebrants" at our neighborhood Episcopal
parish (Atonement, Chicago) on higher Sundays and holy days, I sort of
wish they'd do multiple Masses instead...or, more likely, have three
sacred ministers, with the rest of the priests in choir. The
many-concelebrants configuration works best, in my opinion, in a
monastery church like Saint Meinrad, where there's lots of space
around a west-end cube-shaped altar, so the priests stand with the
community rather than trying to fit along one side of a typical long
Some fun photos:
Crypt chapel down the street from where I sit. Would love to get down
there and see what it looks like nowadays.
One in a row of "training chapels" for the Latin Mass, at Mundelein
Seminary near Chicago
One of the side chapels at St. Gregory's Abbey in Michigan (Anglican)
Monk-priest's private daily Mass at the Abbey of Barroux in France
Five altars across the east end of St. Gertrude's, our neighborhood RC
parish (six if you count the one that's used today, the freestanding
one in the sanctuary)
A Mass tent! (filename says concelebration, but this is specifically
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 6:27 PM, dlewisaao@...> wrote:
> There was a reason that concelebration lapsed way back then. It had to do
> with too many priests going to the most prestigious parish in the area to
> concelebrate, at the expense of their parishes. From this situation came
> the solemn high mass as the normative liturgy, in which there would be one
> each priest, deacon and subdeacon. The residual was of course in some cases
> individual masses.
> David Lewis
> In a message dated 1/30/2013 6:05:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> cowling.douglas@... writes:
> On 1/30/13 3:22 PM, "James" rdrjames@...> wrote:
> >That is to say he didn't concelebrate but he celebrate separately on a
> >small table simultaneously with his colleagues.
> When Abbot Suger dedicated the new Abbey of St.Denis in 1141, 18 bishops
> simultaneously dedicated the new altars, nine in the upper church and nine
> in the lower and then 18 masses were simultaneously celebrated with the
> mass at the high altar. In monastic, cathedral and collegiate churches,
> provision was made so that priests could fulfill their canonical
> obligation to say daily mass. Concelebration had entirely lapsed in the
> high middle ages. On the eve of the Reformation, 40 masses were said
> every morning in St. Paul's Cathedral in London. The east end of many
> great churches (e.g. Durham and Fountains) had an eastern transept with 9
> This arrangement persisted until the Second Vatican Council. Priests in
> monastic communities said their individual masses at the same time at all
> the altars. Evidently, priest who celebrated quickly had to wait until
> their slower colleagues caught up so that all the Sanctus bells could
> sound at the same time.
> When the Council debated concelebration, there was a school of thought
> which asserted that the church was short-changed in grace. Cardinal
> Cushing is famously reported as saying that if 100 priests concelebrated,
> the Church would be short 99 masses.
> Concelebration or at least "assisting" at a community mass is so normative
> now that is surprising to see someone appealing to the old multiplication
> of masses.
> Doug Cowling
> Director of Music
> St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
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- Does anyone know if there is an annual guide book published to accompany the 2 volume Daily Office Book used in the Episcopal Church ?
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:37:04 -0600
Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The Pastor is wrongPhone or phone not, Jim's Pastor...there is no "try." --Bishop Yoda. :)On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jim . <jim.meriden@...> wrote:Thank you all for your suggestions and your support.
Yesterday I contacted the pastor by email, laid out my concerns and given him several concrete suggestions. He got back to me this morning and told me that he'd try to phone me on Saturday.