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Re: [liturgy-l] Reverence for the Trinity

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  • Dwight J. Penas
    John, are you suggesting that there are other names in which we may baptize? If we may only baptize in the Name of Father, Son, and Spirit, then that is the
    Message 1 of 61 , Nov 11, 2012
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      John, are you suggesting that there are other names in which we may baptize? If we may only baptize in the Name of Father, Son, and Spirit, then that is the only "real" Trinity, isn't it? If we may baptize by some other formula, then I'm afraid that I don't understand the history of Christian theology and practice. But if we may only baptize in the name of Father, Son, and Spirit; and if that is then the "real"Trinity; then reverencing any other name would be wrong, it seems to me.




      Peace
      Dwight Penas
      Minneapolis
      ____________________________
      As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


      -----Original Message-----
      From: John Dornheim <johndornheim@...>
      To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 8:35 pm
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Reverence for the Trinity

       
      I believe that is one faithful understanding. It does not preclude others. 
      John Dornheim

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Nov 11, 2012, at 8:19 PM, dlewisaao@... wrote:

       
      Yes, I do.  The "real" Trinity is Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit.
       
      David
       
      ---------------------------
      David Lewis
      dlewisaao@...
       
      In a message dated 11/11/2012 8:18:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lhwhitaker@... writes:


      The "real Trinity?" You mean there's a "real Trinity" and a false Trinity?




      On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 8:17 PM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:


      If it isn't the "real Trinity," it would make sense not to reverence such.
       
      David
       
      ---------------------------
      David Lewis
      dlewisaao@...
       
      In a message dated 11/11/2012 7:23:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DJP4LAW@... writes:


      It happened again!

      I was going to close that I am inclined NOT to treat that as a Gloria because it does not use the actual name of the Three-in-One. (Doing so has encouraged the pastor and servers to bow at any sideways reference to the Trinity. It's a picky point, but at least in my case the decreasing respect for actual name of God seems to be invading liturgical ceremonial.



      Peace
      Dwight Penas
      Minneapolis
      ____________________________
      As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dwight J. Penas <djp4law@...>
      To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 6:15 pm
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Reverence for the Trinity

      I have been influenced by Orthodox practice, so my signs of the cross are followed by bows. Regardless of that grouping, it is our congregation's practice to stand (and many to bow) even if we're singing a hymn while seated. Yesterday at a funeral, the organist signaled by an interlude (and many of the self-described "high" churchers agreed) that we should arise for this verse:

      Father, who the crown shall give,
      Savior, by whose death we live,
      Spirit, guide through all our days:
      Three in One, your name we praise.


      My little point is that I am inclined NOT to acknowledge that as a 



      Peace
      Dwight Penas
      Minneapolis
      ____________________________
      As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
      To: Liturgy-L <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 5:58 pm
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Reverence for the Trinity

       
      I see what you mean, although I don't know of many hymns that refer to the Trinity in non-Father, Son and Holy Spirit terms. My years as an Episcopalian and then Eastern Orthodox have taught me to both bow and cross myself. I cannot undo it.

      Lew


      On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Dwight J. Penas <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:


      I was taught to distinguish between "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" and such formulations that show up in hymns as "Father, Light, Spirit" or "God, Son, and Holy Spirit." Many hymns call for praise or glory to God in the latest two forms (and others).

      I'm trying to determine whether it is liturgically "appropriate" to bow and/or make the sign of the cross at the second and third references. I think, but don't know, that ve self-designated "high Church" types in my congregation who want the congregation


      Peace
      Dwight Penas
      Minneapolis
      ____________________________
      As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
      To: Liturgy-L <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 7:39 pm
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Reverence for the Trinity

       
      I do not understand this....


      On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Dwight J. Penas <DJP4LAW@...> wrote:


      ... when the so-called Trinitarian reference is to something other than Father, Son, and Spirit.


      Peace
      Dwight Penas
      Minneapolis
      ____________________________
      As I read the birth stories about Jesus I cannot help but conclude that though the world may be tilted toward the rich and powerful, God is tilted toward the underdog. -- Philip Yancey


      -----Original Message-----
      From: dlewisaao <dlewisaao@...>
      To: liturgy-l <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 6:46 pm
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Liturgy moribund?

       
      Yes, reverence should be given to the Trinity, but if people are seated there is no need for people to stand.  In either instance, bowing can be done.
       
      David
       
      ---------------------------
      David Lewis
      dlewisaao@...
       
    • Lewis Whitaker
      Roma locuta est.
      Message 61 of 61 , Nov 15, 2012
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        Roma locuta est.


        On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Sandford MacLean <MacLean@...> wrote:


         When the Epistle containing these words is sung/read on Palm Sunday (and other days) one genuflects.

        In Christ,
        Sandford MacLean

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Nov 15, 2012, at 17:26, "James" <rdrjames@...> wrote:

         

        What would sitters do when they sing "At the Name of Jesus, every knee should bow...."?

        Rdr. James

        --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, David J Strang <davidjstrang@...> wrote:
        >
        > I attended a Liturgy in a Midwestern Episcopal Cathedral where "Stand Up, Stand Up For Jesus" was
        > somehow programmed for the Communion hymn, ordinarily sung kneeling.
        >  
        > It was immediately noticed how odd this was, and most in the assembly rose to their feet to conclude
        > the hymn.
        >  
        >  
        > David Strang.




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