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Re: [liturgy-l] Anticipating feasts

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  • Frank Senn
    Perhaps my question was too subtle.  I was probing for something that is not obvious. The general principle in the Western calendars after Vatican II is that
    Message 1 of 39 , Aug 14, 2012
      Perhaps my question was too subtle.  I was probing for something that is not obvious. The general principle in the Western calendars after Vatican II is that Sunday has priority, both the Sundays in the Incarnation and Paschal cycles and the Sundays of the year.  However, the principle is not ruthlessly observed since in each of our Churches some festivals are allowed to trump Sunday.  Apparently for the BCP Transfiguration is one of those festivals.  It isn't in the RC or Lutheran rubrics, but the Lutherans and RCs have other days that can be transferred to a Sunday and regularly are, such as Reformation and All Saints for Lutherans or Corpus Christi and the Assumption for Roman Catholics.  So naturally it becomes a matter of curiosity which days are eligible to trump a principle we all otherwise agree on and why.  If Episcopalians say Transfiguration can trump Sunday because it is a feast of Christ, OK.  Does the BCP allow any other feasts to trump Sunday?

      Frank C. Senn
       

      --- On Tue, 8/14/12, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

      From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Anticipating feasts
      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 3:41 PM

       

      OK, so are you arguing that nothing should take precedence over an ordinary Sunday? I'm not sure I'm following you here.

      The Transfiguration dates to the 9th century in local observance, but was not made a universal feast until 1456.

      Lew

      On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Frank Senn <fcsenn@...> wrote:


      "Ordinary" refers to "ordinal," as in Sundays with a number rather than a name.  The reform of the calendar was precisely to say that Sunday, the Lord's Day, the day of resurrection, is THE major festival.  The event of the transfiguration receives more attention now as the Sunday before Lent than it ever received on Aug. 6.  Maybe the BCP allowance is a nod to the Eastern Church.  It didn't come into the Western calendar until 1456 when Pope Calixtus III announced the victory at Belgrade, at which the Ottoman armies, having just conquered Constantinople, were stopped from advancing farther into Europe (for a while).

      Frank C. Senn

      --- On Tue, 8/14/12, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

      From: Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...>

      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Anticipating feasts
      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 3:13 PM


       

      But all "Feasts of Our Lord" always bump ordinary Sundays. It's only in the West that the Transfiguration has been given such short shrift. It's terribly important in the Eastern Churches.

      Lew


      On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Frank Senn <fcsenn@...> wrote:


      Even so, it's interesting that since the Churches now allow very few festivals to bump Sunday that the BCP would rate the Aug. 6 Transfiguration among them when the event has a very secure place in the BCP Lectionary and the RCL.  There's got to be some issue at stake here more than the gospel event itself.

      Frank C. Senn

      --- On Tue, 8/14/12, Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...> wrote:

      From: Scott Knitter <scott.knitter@...>
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Anticipating feasts
      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 8:08 AM

       

      Only if the Sunday is August 6, though.

      On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Michael Thannisch
      <mjthannisch@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > According to the rules in the BCP, feasts that are bumped go to the following day, not the preceding. The Transfiguration though takes the place of the Sunday feast and does not need to be bumped according to the rubrics in the 1979 PECUSA BCP







    • dollpka
      In the Orthodox Church, Annunciation is never transferred, even if it falls on Pascha itself. In fact this happened most recently in 1991. It is also called
      Message 39 of 39 , Aug 21, 2012
        In the Orthodox Church, Annunciation is never transferred, even if it falls on Pascha itself. In fact this happened most recently in 1991. It is also called Kyriopascha.
        A caveat is that this can currently only occur in those churches which use the Julian calendar for the monthly feasts, i.e. the "old calendar".

        Regards,
        Kenneth Doll

        --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Lewis Whitaker <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:
        >
        > The Feast of the Annunciation is of SUCH great importance to the Eastern
        > Church that it is NEVER transferred (except maybe if it occurs on Pascha).
        > If one wants to see TRUE liturgical acrobatics, watch an Orthodox priest
        > when he realizes that the Annunciation falls on Good Friday! It's quite a
        > mess.
        >
        > Lew
        >
        >
        > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:17 AM, <dlewisaao@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Very true - so long as the feast lands on a Sunday but not on the day
        > > after.
        > >
        > > David
        > >
        > > ---------------------------
        > > David Lewis
        > > dlewisaao@...
        > >
        > > In a message dated 8/15/2012 12:03:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > > wisne1dm@... writes:
        > >
        > > There's also this rubric on p. 16 of the 1979 BCP:
        > >
        > > "When desired, however, the Collect, Preface, and one or more of the
        > > Lessons appointed for the Feast may be substituted for those of the Sunday,
        > > but not from the Last Sunday after Pentecost through the First Sunday after
        > > the Epiphany, or from the Last Sunday after the Epiphany through Trinity
        > > Sunday."
        > >
        > > This would seem to allow such a transference, maybe not technically in
        > > name, but in everything else.
        > >
        > > Dave Wisner
        > >
        > >
        > > On Aug 14, 2012, at 8:22 PM, Scott Knitter wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I understand the answer to be No, as there appears to be no provision
        > > for that, and transfers are described as going forward from a Sunday
        > > to an open day in the week. A church called Church of the
        > > Transfiguration, however, could observe its feast of title by
        > > observing it on, or transferring it to, a Sunday. Doesn't say which
        > > direction.
        > >
        > > Otherwise the only provision I see for moving Transfiguration backward
        > > to Sunday would be this on p. 16:
        > >
        > > "With the express permission of the bishop, and for urgent and
        > > sufficient reason, some other special occasion may be observed on a
        > > Sunday."
        > >
        > > I wouldn't blame a bishop for saying, "No, please observe the Sunday,
        > > as we already have the Transfiguration lessons just before Lent, so
        > > there's nothing urgent and sufficient justifying a move of
        > > Transfiguration backward to the Sunday before August 6."
        > >
        > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:15 PM, <dlewisaao@...<mailto:
        > > dlewisaao%40aol.com>> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > But the question remains: this year, the Transfiguration fell on a Monday
        > > > - can it licitly be transferred backward, i.e., anticipated, on the
        > > Sunday
        > > > immediately preceding? There is no question about when the
        > > Transfiguration,
        > > > or feasts of similar or higher import, lands on a Sunday.
        > > >
        > > > David
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------
        > > > David Lewis
        > > > dlewisaao@...<mailto:dlewisaao%40aol.com>
        > > >
        > > > In a message dated 8/14/2012 8:07:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > > > scott.knitter@...<mailto:scott.knitter%40gmail.com> writes:
        > > >
        > > > The Episcopal Church (USA) 1979 BCP (pp. 15-16) gives the following as
        > > > taking precedence of a Sunday:
        > > >
        > > > Principal Feasts on Fixed Dates:
        > > > All Saints' Day, Nov. 1
        > > > Christmas Day, Dec. 25
        > > > The Epiphany, Jan. 6
        > > >
        > > > Major Feasts That Take Precedence of a Sunday (Major Feasts of Our Lord):
        > > > The Holy Name, Jan. 1
        > > > The Presentation, Feb. 2
        > > > The Transfiguration, Aug. 6
        > > >
        > > > Other Observances That May Be Observed on a Sunday:
        > > > Dedication of a Church
        > > > Patronal Feast
        > > > Feast of Title
        > > >
        > > > My theory is that all Feasts of Our Lord take either are already on a
        > > > Sunday (Baptism of Our Lord) or take precedence if they land on a
        > > > Sunday (Holy Name, Presentation, Transfiguration). Everything else:
        > > > feasts of the BVM, of apostles, evangelists, etc. -- are transferred
        > > > if they land on a Sunday. It could be argued, IMHO, that the Last
        > > > Sunday After the Epiphany could handle the observance of the
        > > > Transfiguration, as the Last Sunday Before Advent handles the
        > > > observance of Christ the King (Reign of Christ). The BCP compilers
        > > > seem to have been reluctant to attach those names to those Sundays.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
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