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Re: [liturgy-l] Easter Vigil as Popular Liturgy

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  • Ron Miller
    The question of the length of time during the night that the baptisms took came up as I was writing my dissertation. The church Egeria and Cyril describe was
    Message 1 of 56 , Apr 1, 2010
      The question of the length of time during the night that the baptisms
      took came up as I was writing my dissertation. The church Egeria and
      Cyril describe was dealing large numbers of conversions because of the
      recent legalization of Christianity and its growing social standing;
      classes could have been large. I theorized that if the questions and
      immersions were done one at a time, with multiple renunciations and then
      multiple anointing and robing in adjoining rooms, and if questions and
      immersion were done one at a time at the font and took about half a
      minute some two hundred people could have been initiated in less than
      two hours. I can expand this further if there is interest. So a
      baptismal class of this size could have been present for most of the
      vigil and still rejoined the congregation as they sang the "Omnia opera
      Domini.." (although not in Latin).

      On 3/31/2010 9:20 PM, Frank Senn wrote:
      > Authentic to what? Egerea's description is such that the baptisms occurred during the night, not at dawn. It's interesting that she says that when they got to the sacrifice (i.e. the Eucharist) they hurried things along because the people were getting tired. When it was over they all went home. They didn't even hang around for breakfast.
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      > --- On Wed, 3/31/10, dlewisaao@...<dlewisaao@...> wrote:
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      > From: dlewisaao@...<dlewisaao@...>
      > Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Easter Vigil as Popular Liturgy
      > To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 12:49 PM
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      > Wouldn't having the sun come up during the Mass be more authentic, with
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      > baptisms occurring just before sunrise?
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      > David
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      > In a message dated 3/31/2010 10:14:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
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      > rh.miller@verizon. net writes:
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      > You are correct about all night, at least in Jerusalem at the time of
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      > Egeria and Cyril. The African American parish I served for three years
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      > in Baltimore ad the vigil starting a 6:00 am so the sun came up during
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      > ------------------------------------
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      > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
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      --
      Ron Miller (The Rev. Ronald H.) Baltimore, MD
      Every individual will receive from God the amount of indulgence he has himself given to his neighbor.
      Augustine, quoted by Defensor Grammaticus
    • cfortunato58@aol.com
      I ve actually fallen into something similar as a private practice. My church s Easter Vigil is about 3 1/2 hours. I like it, but it s a bit much. So I
      Message 56 of 56 , Apr 3, 2010
        I've actually fallen into something similar as a private practice. My church's Easter Vigil is about 3 1/2 hours. I like it, but it's a bit much. So I attend the first part only, and come back for the earliest morning Eucharist. Works for me. I've considered doing the first part myself at about 4am on a hill in a park, but I never have.

        Carl Fortunato

        -----Original Message-----

        From: Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...>
        Subj: Re: [liturgy-l] Easter Vigil as Popular Liturgy
        Date: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:28 am
        Size: 2K
        To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>

        On 3/31/10 12:10 AM, "Lewis Whitaker" <lhwhitaker@...> wrote:

        > Personally, I can't stand the vigil in the morning. The words of the exultet
        > speak of "night," and I think that that is historically when it has been
        > held. But for some reason, especially in this part of the world, people are
        > tied to Easter Sunrise services.

        The main problem with the Easter Vigil -- magnificent though the rite be --
        is that the new liturgy has telescoped what once lasted from dusk to dawn. I
        would say that dawn should be an intrinsic part of the rite -- it is in fact
        the most striking visual image in the Resurrection narratives.

        Alas, we don't live in 5th century Greek fishing villages and spend the
        whole night in church. There is a real pastoral problem here as the vigil
        will never wholly supplant the morning eucharist especially in small and
        mid-sized churches.

        My parish decided to have one liturgy in two parts in an effort to reclaim
        at least the shape of the all-night vigil. On Saturday night, we have the
        Blessing of the Light, the readings, baptisms and conclude with the Easter
        Greeting, Gospel and Gloria.

        In the morning, we begin with the Greeting, Gloria and continue with the
        eucharist. In a sense, we are beginning again where we left off at night.
        That may provoke purist tsk-tsks, but it is a practical pastoral solution.

        Doug Cowling
        Director of Music
        St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
        Toronto







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