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Why bells? Part Two

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  • Tom Poelker
    It seems to me that we have gone full circle, back to the original question, Why bells? This message reminds me of the old Bob Newhart routine about Valley
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 31, 2009
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      It seems to me that we have gone full circle, back to the original
      question, "Why bells?"

      This message reminds me of the old Bob Newhart routine about Valley
      Forge. After the parade with the drummer and injured fife player
      accompanying the flag bearer, the captain finds those men and say,
      "Washington liked the idea of the limp and says you should keep it in."

      What purpose does it serve to introduce hand bells during the Sanctus?
      It seems to me that there are already too many things going on during
      the Institution Narrative. Where is the focus supposed to be? Do the
      musicians and the presider make any effort to coordinate with each
      other? What are the members of the assembly expected to be DOING, or
      are they only expected to be accepting what is done by others? Where do
      the ministers intend the congregants to focus their attention?

      Are the bells and the music overlapping the liturgical action just
      because somebody likes them and decided to, "leave them in"?

      Are there two flows in contrast here, or even three, with the musicians
      doing their thing, the presider doing another thing, the remaining
      ministers doing a third thing, perhaps, and the congregation left to
      pick and choose where to focus or to do their own internal things rather
      than acting as an assembly?

      Now some may think I am picking at nits here and maybe even missing.
      Others may think that I am just showing a perceived general opposition
      to traditional practices. Yet, what I intend is to demonstrate the kind
      of questions which I think ought to be asked of every element of
      liturgical prayer, both those well established and those proposed for
      introduction to a particular congregation.

      If one took two weeks of daily rehearsals, as theater people do at a
      minimum for almost every show, how much of this could be worked out?
      How much better could the entire service flow? How many potential
      message conflicts could be avoided? How much better job could be done
      to coordinate and optimize the mutual and potentially supportive
      messages of the various media: musical, oral, setting, posture, gesture,
      et cetera?

      Why will the average parish not, at least once a year, put in as much
      effort to prepare their liturgies as they would for a school play?
      Professional actors doing "Macbeth" do not assume that they all know how
      to do it and can stage the show with just a few minutes conversation and
      whatever rehearsals the supporting musicians think minimally necessary.
      Why do professional liturgical ministers assume so much differently?

      ----- THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS A CRASS COMMERCIAL PROPOSAL -----------

      For the cost of first class air travel and Motel Six accommodations and
      a mere $150 per day, you, too, can hire an experienced director and
      master of ceremonies AT YOUR OWN SITE to run two days of rehearsal using
      the script already known to your ministers. Experience the give and
      take of real rehearsal. Delve into the motivations of the ministries.
      Hurry! WRITE NOW! Send your requests to TAPoelker@.... Offer valid
      world wide. Money and producers of all denominations welcome.
      Producers decide whether to produce shows as rehearsed or to rewrite
      further or even return to previous performance practices. Guarantee
      covers only thought provocation not final product as assembled by the
      customer. Your satisfaction may vary and depends upon local road
      conditions and maintenance of the product.

      ---------WE NOW RETURN TO OUR IRREGULARLY SCHEDULED ANNOUNCEMENTS
      ------------------------
      *

      Tom Poelker
      St. Louis. Missouri
      USA

      /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.
      It’s nice to see people smile,
      and it’s good practice. --/

      *


      Frank Senn wrote:
      >
      >
      > Amazingly, I found a set of Sanctus bells in a closet in the choir
      > room at Immanuel a few weeks ago. There was a thurible in the
      > sacristy when I arrived here nearly 20 years ago, which I understood
      > was used at Vespers (LBW Vespers calls for incensing during Psalm
      > 141). We have continued that tradition and I added the use of incense
      > at certain liturgies during the year. On Christmas Eve I had the
      > server ring the bells during the Sanctus and during the elevation of
      > the chalice and host at the doxology at the end of the Great
      > Thanksgiving. (I haven't quite worked through in my mind about
      > ringing them during the words of institution, since I regard the whole
      > eucharistic prayer as consecratory). I also know that they were rung
      > at the Sanctus because the choir was singing that interjection while
      > the celebrant was saying the rest of the Canon, including the Verba
      > institutionis in sotto voce. But I figured that at midnight mass on
      > Christmas Eve the
      > congregation's attention might need to be aroused by that point. In
      > any event, I have continued having them rung at all the masses since
      > and maybe this new practice will continue. I don't know. (I think the
      > people like it; they certainly like ringing their hand bells at the
      > Easter Vigil.) But those who only come once a year on Christmas Eve
      > will surely think that the bells were rung especially for Christmas.
      >
      > Frank C. Senn
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Frank Senn
      It s a good question.  I guess I would approach an answer this way.  Bells are really musical instruments. They belong in the percussion family.  AS is done
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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        It's a good question.  I guess I would approach an answer this way.  Bells are really musical instruments. They belong in the percussion family.  AS is done nowadays in countless churches, you can get an assortment of handbells and have a handbell choir play whole pieces with them.  I confess that this has never appealed to me.  But using bells to summon attention or to express joy does appeal to me.  So church bells are rung to call people to worship and to celebrate joyous events like the resurrection or marriages. Or they can be tolled to say farewell to the faithful departed.  In the old days the church bells could remind people in the community to offer their devotions, such as ringing the Angelus.  Adding handbells during the Sanctus is kind of like a judicious clash of cymbals at strategic points in an orchestral piece.  In fact, some organs are equipped with little devices called a cymbalstern (it is shaped like a star) that organists
        use on the last stanzas of exuberant hymns---or during the singing of the Gloria or Sanctus.  So...using the sanctus bells during the Sanctus heightens the singing of this interjection and summons anticipation.  In many musical settings of the liturgy nowadays, the concluding doxology is musically of one piece with the Sanctus, so it seems appropriate to also reprise the bells during "Through him, with him, in him..."  This argument is mostly aesthetic, but when dealing with music that has to come into play. 

        Frank C. Senn

        --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Tom Poelker <TomPoelker@...> wrote:

        From: Tom Poelker <TomPoelker@...>
        Subject: [liturgy-l] Why bells? Part Two
        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 4:24 PM







         









        It seems to me that we have gone full circle, back to the original

        question, "Why bells?"



        This message reminds me of the old Bob Newhart routine about Valley

        Forge. After the parade with the drummer and injured fife player

        accompanying the flag bearer, the captain finds those men and say,

        "Washington liked the idea of the limp and says you should keep it in."



        What purpose does it serve to introduce hand bells during the Sanctus?

        It seems to me that there are already too many things going on during

        the Institution Narrative. Where is the focus supposed to be? Do the

        musicians and the presider make any effort to coordinate with each

        other? What are the members of the assembly expected to be DOING, or

        are they only expected to be accepting what is done by others? Where do

        the ministers intend the congregants to focus their attention?



        Are the bells and the music overlapping the liturgical action just

        because somebody likes them and decided to, "leave them in"?



        Are there two flows in contrast here, or even three, with the musicians

        doing their thing, the presider doing another thing, the remaining

        ministers doing a third thing, perhaps, and the congregation left to

        pick and choose where to focus or to do their own internal things rather

        than acting as an assembly?



        Now some may think I am picking at nits here and maybe even missing.

        Others may think that I am just showing a perceived general opposition

        to traditional practices. Yet, what I intend is to demonstrate the kind

        of questions which I think ought to be asked of every element of

        liturgical prayer, both those well established and those proposed for

        introduction to a particular congregation.



        If one took two weeks of daily rehearsals, as theater people do at a

        minimum for almost every show, how much of this could be worked out?

        How much better could the entire service flow? How many potential

        message conflicts could be avoided? How much better job could be done

        to coordinate and optimize the mutual and potentially supportive

        messages of the various media: musical, oral, setting, posture, gesture,

        et cetera?



        Why will the average parish not, at least once a year, put in as much

        effort to prepare their liturgies as they would for a school play?

        Professional actors doing "Macbeth" do not assume that they all know how

        to do it and can stage the show with just a few minutes conversation and

        whatever rehearsals the supporting musicians think minimally necessary.

        Why do professional liturgical ministers assume so much differently?



        ----- THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS A CRASS COMMERCIAL PROPOSAL -----------



        For the cost of first class air travel and Motel Six accommodations and

        a mere $150 per day, you, too, can hire an experienced director and

        master of ceremonies AT YOUR OWN SITE to run two days of rehearsal using

        the script already known to your ministers. Experience the give and

        take of real rehearsal. Delve into the motivations of the ministries.

        Hurry! WRITE NOW! Send your requests to TAPoelker@aol. com. Offer valid

        world wide. Money and producers of all denominations welcome.

        Producers decide whether to produce shows as rehearsed or to rewrite

        further or even return to previous performance practices. Guarantee

        covers only thought provocation not final product as assembled by the

        customer. Your satisfaction may vary and depends upon local road

        conditions and maintenance of the product.



        ---------WE NOW RETURN TO OUR IRREGULARLY SCHEDULED ANNOUNCEMENTS

        ------------ --------- ---

        *



        Tom Poelker

        St. Louis. Missouri

        USA



        /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.

        Its nice to see people smile,

        and its good practice. --/



        *



        Frank Senn wrote:

        >

        >

        > Amazingly, I found a set of Sanctus bells in a closet in the choir

        > room at Immanuel a few weeks ago. There was a thurible in the

        > sacristy when I arrived here nearly 20 years ago, which I understood

        > was used at Vespers (LBW Vespers calls for incensing during Psalm

        > 141). We have continued that tradition and I added the use of incense

        > at certain liturgies during the year. On Christmas Eve I had the

        > server ring the bells during the Sanctus and during the elevation of

        > the chalice and host at the doxology at the end of the Great

        > Thanksgiving. (I haven't quite worked through in my mind about

        > ringing them during the words of institution, since I regard the whole

        > eucharistic prayer as consecratory) . I also know that they were rung

        > at the Sanctus because the choir was singing that interjection while

        > the celebrant was saying the rest of the Canon, including the Verba

        > institutionis in sotto voce. But I figured that at midnight mass on

        > Christmas Eve the

        > congregation' s attention might need to be aroused by that point. In

        > any event, I have continued having them rung at all the masses since

        > and maybe this new practice will continue. I don't know. (I think the

        > people like it; they certainly like ringing their hand bells at the

        > Easter Vigil.) But those who only come once a year on Christmas Eve

        > will surely think that the bells were rung especially for Christmas.

        >

        > Frank C. Senn

        >

        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James O'Regan
        Both of those uses, I think, can be useful even in the traditional positioning in the Mass during the Institution Narrative. But, as Tom has pointed out, bells
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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          Both of those uses, I think, can be useful even in the traditional positioning in the Mass during the Institution Narrative. But, as Tom has pointed out, bells need rehearsal (re-hear-sal) to know how they best might affect the action.

          Two questions pop to mind: the tone of the bells - are they tinny, jingley, or bell-ringy? Having never heard them used effectively, I, nevertheless, can imagine a good use at the two elevations, if the prayer and elevations are done slowly enough and the bells are powerful enough to make a statement of jubilation. So, the second question is can the action accommodate them?

          I have heard tubular bells put to good use in the Gloria of the Bells, which is a dialogue (choir-assembly) tune. The exuberance of those bells really has lifted up the assembly singing to a jubilation. The choir performs a proper role of leading, setting the pace and story-telling and the assembly performs a proper role of responding and expressing "glory," with the bells acting as a solid bedrock and flight of that joy.

          So, the two examples could be and are that of a stimulus of jubilation and a response of jubilation, leading the assembly and supporting the assembly in praise.

          All the best,

          James O'Regan
          oregan@...




          On 2010-01-01, at 9:02 AM, Frank Senn wrote:

          > But using bells to summon attention or to express joy does appeal to me.
        • George Carlson
          While we don t have exactly the same personal taste in liturgy, it is pretty clear we are on this list because we can agree (and the secondary meaning of the
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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            While we don't have exactly the same personal taste in liturgy, it is pretty
            clear we are on this list because we can agree (and the secondary meaning of
            the image is intentional) that liturgy is like a meal of physical food.
            Ideally, it should be planned, prepared, and presented like a fine meal, not
            thrown together like a fast food burger. We may never agree if we like
            spinach, but we keep coming back to the same (or at least a very similar)
            premise.



            In omnibus pax,

            George Carlson

            St. Paul's (TEC), Murfreesboro, TN

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Douglas Cowling
            ... Another function of bells is a call to corporate silence and reflection as at St. Gregory of Nyssa. After the first two readings and the homily, a bell is
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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              On 1/1/10 10:42 AM, "James O'Regan" <oregan@...> wrote:

              > So, the two examples could be and are that of a stimulus of jubilation and a
              > response of jubilation, leading the assembly and supporting the assembly in
              > praise.

              Another function of bells is a call to corporate silence and reflection as
              at St. Gregory of Nyssa. After the first two readings and the homily, a bell
              is rung to announce a period of silence; a second bell anounces the end of
              the silence. I'm sure the parish has the footnotes of the Eastern rite from
              which the custom is adopted.

              I recommend the practice to all and sundry. This is a world of perpetual
              noise and activity. The custom of silent prayer before and after the liturgy
              is long gone. When we give our assemblies an opportunity for corporate
              silence, we are giving them something incredibly rich which their daily
              lives deny them. It also recognizes that in our hyper-energized liturgies
              that there are many who require the quiet time.

              We include the following rubric:

              A time of silence for reflection is announced and closed by a bell.

              That indicates to panicking extoverts that this is a discreet liturgical act
              with a recognizable beginning and end. We use a Tibetan bell bowl which has
              a long lingering tone which draws in the listener: if you allow yourself to
              be carried by the sound, you enter the silence gracefully and musically.

              Try it for a season.

              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              Toronto
            • cantor03@aol.com
              Not unique to Anglican churches, but fairly common in TEC is the use of tower bells for the Sanctus and other locations in the Liturgy where bells are
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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                Not unique to Anglican churches, but fairly common
                in TEC is the use of tower bells for the Sanctus and
                other locations in the Liturgy where bells are appropriate.
                This can be very effective and not as obtrusive as hand
                operated bells can be at times, especially via untrained
                servers.

                I believe the fourth largest ECUSA church is St. John
                the Evangelist Cathedral in Spokane, Washington, and
                there is a massive central tower there over the crossing.
                The Sanctus bells are especially impressive when heard
                floating down from such a height inside the Cathedral.


                David Strang.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lewis Whitaker
                You should hear the one at Church of the Advent, Boston. You FEEL it right in the pit of your stomach. Lew ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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                  You should hear the one at Church of the Advent, Boston. You FEEL it right
                  in the pit of your stomach.

                  Lew


                  On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:23 PM, <cantor03@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Not unique to Anglican churches, but fairly common
                  > in TEC is the use of tower bells for the Sanctus and
                  > other locations in the Liturgy where bells are appropriate.
                  > This can be very effective and not as obtrusive as hand
                  > operated bells can be at times, especially via untrained
                  > servers.
                  >
                  > I believe the fourth largest ECUSA church is St. John
                  > the Evangelist Cathedral in Spokane, Washington, and
                  > there is a massive central tower there over the crossing.
                  > The Sanctus bells are especially impressive when heard
                  > floating down from such a height inside the Cathedral.
                  >
                  >
                  > David Strang.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To write to the moderators, please email:
                  > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dlewisaao@aol.com
                  At St Paul s DC we ring the outside bell before each service or sequence of services (including daily) and ring both the inside ( jingle bells ) and outside
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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                    At St Paul's DC we ring the outside bell before each service or sequence
                    of services (including daily) and ring both the inside ("jingle bells") and
                    outside bells to announce and during the Consecration; also, we ring the
                    inside bells during the Sanctus and to signal that Communions are to begin.

                    The outside bells witness to the neighborhood.

                    David


                    In a message dated 1/1/2010 1:37:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    cantor03@... writes:


                    Not unique to Anglican churches, but fairly common
                    in TEC is the use of tower bells for the Sanctus and
                    other locations in the Liturgy where bells are appropriate.
                    This can be very effective and not as obtrusive as hand
                    operated bells can be at times, especially via untrained
                    servers.

                    I believe the fourth largest ECUSA church is St. John
                    the Evangelist Cathedral in Spokane, Washington, and
                    there is a massive central tower there over the crossing.
                    The Sanctus bells are especially impressive when heard
                    floating down from such a height inside the Cathedral.


                    David Strang.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/
                    To write to the moderators, please email:
                    liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tom Poelker
                    Wow! What a good idea about using a [gentle?] to introduce and close a period of silence. Its amazing how many good ideas are in use. I always like learning
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 1, 2010
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                      Wow! What a good idea about using a [gentle?] to introduce and close a
                      period of silence.
                      Its amazing how many good ideas are in use.
                      I always like learning such things.
                      *

                      Tom Poelker
                      St. Louis. Missouri
                      USA

                      /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.
                      It?s nice to see people smile,
                      and it?s good practice. --/

                      *


                      Douglas Cowling wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > On 1/1/10 10:42 AM, "James O'Regan" <oregan@...
                      > <mailto:oregan%40jamesoregan.com>> wrote:
                      >
                      > > So, the two examples could be and are that of a stimulus of
                      > jubilation and a
                      > > response of jubilation, leading the assembly and supporting the
                      > assembly in
                      > > praise.
                      >
                      > Another function of bells is a call to corporate silence and reflection as
                      > at St. Gregory of Nyssa. After the first two readings and the homily,
                      > a bell
                      > is rung to announce a period of silence; a second bell anounces the end of
                      > the silence. I'm sure the parish has the footnotes of the Eastern rite
                      > from
                      > which the custom is adopted.
                      >
                      > I recommend the practice to all and sundry. This is a world of perpetual
                      > noise and activity. The custom of silent prayer before and after the
                      > liturgy
                      > is long gone. When we give our assemblies an opportunity for corporate
                      > silence, we are giving them something incredibly rich which their daily
                      > lives deny them. It also recognizes that in our hyper-energized liturgies
                      > that there are many who require the quiet time.
                      >
                      > We include the following rubric:
                      >
                      > A time of silence for reflection is announced and closed by a bell.
                      >
                      > That indicates to panicking extoverts that this is a discreet
                      > liturgical act
                      > with a recognizable beginning and end. We use a Tibetan bell bowl
                      > which has
                      > a long lingering tone which draws in the listener: if you allow
                      > yourself to
                      > be carried by the sound, you enter the silence gracefully and musically.
                      >
                      > Try it for a season.
                      >
                      > Doug Cowling
                      > Director of Music
                      > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                      > Toronto
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • James
                      In our small community we sing when the priest is silent and are silent while he sings, And sometimes we all sing the same thing. but then we are Eastern rite,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 3, 2010
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                        In our small community we sing when the priest is silent and are silent while he sings, And sometimes we all sing the same thing. but then we are Eastern rite, and we mostly just get along with each other. We respond to each other, priest and people, and all join in as they are able. There are about 20-25 of us and all sing as we are able. Makes for nice liturgy, and we sing mostly the same melodies each week so all learn them.

                        Humble Jim of Olym.

                        --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Tom Poelker <TomPoelker@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > It seems to me that we have gone full circle, back to the original us?
                        etc omitted
                      • James
                        Our little Mission in Olympia WA had two visitors who were both form a local Presbyterian church today. As the reader/psalti I was rather struck that they
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 3, 2010
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                          Our little Mission in Olympia WA had two visitors who were both form a local Presbyterian church today. As the reader/psalti I was rather struck that they mostly sat throughout the service but were very attentive. We gave them little books to follow but they hardly looked at them. I think they were impressed.

                          Let's see if they ever return.
                          Rdr. james

                          --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On 1/1/10 10:42 AM, "James O'Regan" <oregan@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > So, the two examples could be and are that of a stimulus of jubilation and a
                          > > response of jubilation, leading the assembly and supporting the assembly in
                          > > praise.
                          >
                          > Another function of bells is a call to corporate silence and reflection as
                          > at St. Gregory of Nyssa. After the first two readings and the homily, a bell
                          > is rung to announce a period of silence; a second bell anounces the end of
                          > the silence. I'm sure the parish has the footnotes of the Eastern rite from
                          > which the custom is adopted.
                          >
                          > I recommend the practice to all and sundry. This is a world of perpetual
                          > noise and activity. The custom of silent prayer before and after the liturgy
                          > is long gone. When we give our assemblies an opportunity for corporate
                          > silence, we are giving them something incredibly rich which their daily
                          > lives deny them. It also recognizes that in our hyper-energized liturgies
                          > that there are many who require the quiet time.
                          >
                          > We include the following rubric:
                          >
                          > A time of silence for reflection is announced and closed by a bell.
                          >
                          > That indicates to panicking extoverts that this is a discreet liturgical act
                          > with a recognizable beginning and end. We use a Tibetan bell bowl which has
                          > a long lingering tone which draws in the listener: if you allow yourself to
                          > be carried by the sound, you enter the silence gracefully and musically.
                          >
                          > Try it for a season.
                          >
                          > Doug Cowling
                          > Director of Music
                          > St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
                          > Toronto
                          >
                        • James
                          Unfortunate that the Spokane cathedral is is pretty modernistic in its praxis now. Jim of Olym Beartiful church with a 3 man Skinner Organ. And the building
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 3, 2010
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                            Unfortunate that the Spokane cathedral is is pretty modernistic in its praxis now.
                            Jim of Olym
                            Beartiful church with a 3 man Skinner Organ. And the building was finished during the Depression!

                            --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, cantor03@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Not unique to Anglican churches, but fairly common
                            > in TEC is the use of tower bells for the Sanctus and
                            > other locations in the Liturgy where bells are appropriate.
                            > This can be very effective and not as obtrusive as hand
                            > operated bells can be at times, especially via untrained
                            > servers.
                            >
                            > I believe the fourth largest ECUSA church is St. John
                            > the Evangelist Cathedral in Spokane, Washington, and
                            > there is a massive central tower there over the crossing.
                            > The Sanctus bells are especially impressive when heard
                            > floating down from such a height inside the Cathedral.
                            >
                            > David Strang.
                          • Janet Roth
                            Finest example of French Gothic architecture West of the Mississippi..... the stone blocks were hand numbered --- and it used to be that in places you could
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 3, 2010
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                              Finest example of French Gothic architecture West of the
                              Mississippi..... the stone blocks were hand numbered --- and it used
                              to be that in places you could still see the numbering...

                              One year when the floors were being worked on and the pews were out
                              (services for a while in the parish hall!) --- the Dean at the time
                              bade us all go stand in the back and just soak up the view without
                              pews. It is a most beautiful building....

                              Janet Roth (who has been quite in love with the building since high
                              school which was four decades ago)
                              On Jan 3, 2010, at 8:22 PM, James wrote:

                              > Unfortunate that the Spokane cathedral is is pretty modernistic in
                              > its praxis now.
                              > Jim of Olym
                              > Beartiful church with a 3 man Skinner Organ. And the building was
                              > finished during the Depression!
                              >
                              > --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, cantor03@... wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I believe the fourth largest ECUSA church is St. John
                              > > the Evangelist Cathedral in Spokane, Washington, and
                              > > there is a massive central tower there over the crossing.
                              > > The Sanctus bells are especially impressive when heard
                              > > floating down from such a height inside the Cathedral.
                              > >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Lewis Whitaker
                              Modernistic in its praxis. What, pray tell, does that mean, Jim? Or are you using it in the I can t put my finger on it, but I don t like it sense that
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 3, 2010
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                                "Modernistic in its praxis." What, pray tell, does that mean, Jim?

                                Or are you using it in the "I can't put my finger on it, but I don't like
                                it" sense that most people use 'Modernist?'

                                Lew

                                On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:22 PM, James <rdrjames@...> wrote:

                                > Unfortunate that the Spokane cathedral is is pretty modernistic in its
                                > praxis now.
                                > Jim of Olym
                                > Beartiful church with a 3 man Skinner Organ. And the building was finished
                                > during the Depression!
                                >
                                > --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, cantor03@... wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Not unique to Anglican churches, but fairly common
                                > > in TEC is the use of tower bells for the Sanctus and
                                > > other locations in the Liturgy where bells are appropriate.
                                > > This can be very effective and not as obtrusive as hand
                                > > operated bells can be at times, especially via untrained
                                > > servers.
                                > >
                                > > I believe the fourth largest ECUSA church is St. John
                                > > the Evangelist Cathedral in Spokane, Washington, and
                                > > there is a massive central tower there over the crossing.
                                > > The Sanctus bells are especially impressive when heard
                                > > floating down from such a height inside the Cathedral.
                                > >
                                > > David Strang.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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